ahlocks Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 And you think you are in a position to make that determination? Yeah I am actually. Around here at least. I have some additional resources to find out who talks themselves up and who doesn't. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Zane Tully....Paid and trained for my low level endo only to recieve a letter from one "Zane TullY" informing their was insuficiant warrent for the endo there fore they would not grant my LL endo!!!!!!!!!!!!.. My CFI sent and made a number of phone calls but 2 years on still yet to have the LL inked on my certificate... ( THAT I TRAINED AND PAID FOR) all LOGGED IN MY PILOT LOG BOOK AND SIGNED OFF.....................My old CFI strongly Believes every pilot should have this endo and it should be part of the syllibis.To open our eyes to the dangers of low and slow. OK so I spent money on a endo I never revieved but the good thing was the lessons I learnt.. makes me a lil safer I believe... money well spent That's unfortunate - keep trying, the records must be somewhere. Several CASA people and ATO's that I know believe that the LL training should be included in all CPL's. My own opinion is that it should be included in the RAAus PC - but only an hour or so for 'awareness' more than anything else. Where we have some future need is in the harmonising of the RAAus syllabus with the new CASR Part 61 Syllabus and Manual of Standards for the new Low Level Rating. Remember, in GA it has only ever been a Course of Training iaw CAO 29.10 for GA pilots.......not a rating. Ratings require renewal at set intervals - whereas 'Courses-of-Training' do not. happy days, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I didn't know you were religious 'Locks. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Sounds like a good way to end up dead. regardless of legalities, low level training, 1 million hours under powerlines in an ag plane... Your only one missed radio call, wrong frequency, volume down, pilot not listening etc, from copping ma and pa in their J230 in your windscreen as you reverse against the circuit and put the aeroplane where others are bloody likely to be. Great airshow fun im sure, but not when one or two aeroplanes auger in and burn for the spectators:) Wake up to yourselves !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think the RAAus have themselves in a knot over the LL . I taught it in GA. Had an endorsement for 400 foot circuits in B727's ( Subject to recency requirements.) I was TEACHING it in the RAA and when the "certificate" format changed applied for it and Mick Poole would not issue it and that I would have to be doing mustering or such to be issued with it. How would an instructor legally teach it ?. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I have done low level training for my PPL in Europe and for my PPL here in Australia but do not have an endorsement. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahlocks Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I didn't know you were religious 'Locks. Nev Nah, just getting old and cranky Nev. And just a little bit sick of the holier than thou attitudes of a few.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 No it's just a sequence at the front of the log book signed off. It would be called an endorsement on the RAAus certificate. Nev PS. Don't lose your sense of humour, Locks. Do as I say ,not as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 We have to have reasons for owning guns these days FH, and the reasons are spelled out to stop us inventing new ones, so the precedent is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think the RAAus have themselves in a knot over the LL . I taught it in GA. Had an endorsement for 400 foot circuits in B727's ( Subject to recency requirements.) I was TEACHING it in the RAA and when the "certificate" format changed applied for it and Mick Poole would not issue it and that I would have to be doing mustering or such to be issued with it. How would an instructor legally teach it ?. Nev The way you flew B727's I would have signed you off on mustering; the cattle would only need one muster to run like hell for the yards if they heard a turbine after that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Reasons for not doing useful training may be a bit harder to justify. One method of training for landings is to fly along the strip just keeping the wheels off the ground. I suppose that is low level flying. One of the big lessons is getting used to the wind at low level and the drift while still keeping the ball in centre. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I think the RAAus have themselves in a knot over the LL . I taught it in GA. Had an endorsement for 400 foot circuits in B727's ( Subject to recency requirements.) I was TEACHING it in the RAA and when the "certificate" format changed applied for it and Mick Poole would not issue it and that I would have to be doing mustering or such to be issued with it. How would an instructor legally teach it ?. Nev The GA requirement was previously a G1 instructor plus an Ag 1 or 2. I was always surprised about that because nobody from CASA ever checked up on me, or others who were doing LL. It appears that under CASR 61 - instructors won't require Ag, but will require a LL course plus 5 hrs of 'instruction training'....similar to how aeros and formation works now. Can't understand why Mick would say that because there is nothing that I've seen which says you must have a 'reason' for doing it. I think this harks back to the old DCA attitude of not wanting pilots to learn IF unless they did the full CIR, and the 'lets not teach them anything outside the syllabus because they can't be trusted to not use it for stunting' attitude. As far as I'm concerned, my only requirement is that the pilot can handle the aircraft really well through steep turns and unusual attitudes before we start. Insofar as instructors go - they currently don't receive enough LL training to not be a danger to themselves and their student when conducting realistic forced landings and precautionaries down below 500 agl. Hence it should be an essential part of every instructors training - GA and RAAus. happy days, 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Insofar as instructors go - they currently don't receive enough LL training to not be a danger to themselves and their student when conducting realistic forced landings and precautionaries down below 500 agl. happy days, I spose thats why we cant legally do that below 500 ft then ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I've chased buffalo's in Arnhem land in an F-27 and a very low flight in Bass straight In CASA's F27 looking for a downed plane. Just checked in the log book signed of as a sequence pre PPL Low flying and Low forced landings. Then about 5 hours at least in the instructor rating training.plus solo practice all along in getting the commercial. There's a fair bit in the Ag rating that wouldn't be" necessary" for low level, I would think. Another anomaly is that you could not fly ABOVE 500 Feet when I first flew U/L's Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Id love to have a few beers with you Nev..:) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I've chased buffalo's in Arnhem land in an F-27 With a 30-08 in his right hand pointing out the window over his shoulder, then stick back and BAM! It was great for the passengers in those days - always a story to tell, and the buff steaks were a special treat cooked by the hosties on arrival. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 It's just that my memory gets prompted by some of the comments here. I'd not thought about it for a long time. It was all a bit boring at times, though at other times quite "concentrating of the mind". Flying across PNG from Moresby to Lae in valleys about 150 feet above the ground and the altimeter reading over 14,000 feet. The plane doesn't have a lot of spare lift at that level. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 No it's just a sequence at the front of the log book signed off. It would be called an endorsement on the RAAus certificate. That's quite correct. In GA my 'Low Level' (they call it 'Low Flying' in GA) and Mustering are listed along with my Approvals and Appointments whereas Constant Speed, Retractable, T/W, Floats/Floating Hull and 'Types' (you have to be endorsed on each different type in H ops rather than just weight categories) are all listed under 'Endorsement' and separated into Categories (Plane/Heli). So the Low Flying and Mustering are not endorsements at all, they are simply called 'Training'. In which case I think RAAus should get its act together and stop discouraging people (and flying schools) from receiving/conducting that (IMHO) exceptionally beneficial training. I'm very aware that having LL/LF training most certainly saved me on a few occasions, most particularly when conducting filming airwork. In case anyone doesn't know it, a film-maker's passion for getting 'the perfect shot' is so great that it sometimes seems that his sole purpose in life is to try and talk the pilot into crashing ... Granted filming is commercial work but the training also came to my rescue more than once when I made simple and dumb mistakes and got caught in bad weather, or in poor visibility from smoke haze, and on another occasion caught under a low cloudbase in rugged terrain. You don't ever have to be a hoon to benefit from precision training, it just takes a mistake or an unfamiliar situation ... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 If you don't start a fight you're least likely to get beat up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Id love to have a few beers with you Nev..:) I have...and Nev is one of the respected legends of our industry 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Neither respected or a legend Ian. I shouldn't have written that stuff. Did I tell you about getting marooned on Cocos Islands? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Was that when you landed the 727 on the beach Nev? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The whole atoll is a beach. nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Neither respected or a legend Ian. I shouldn't have written that stuff. Did I tell you about getting marooned on Cocos Islands? Nev About ten years ago my brother hitched a lift as crew on a yacht and ended up marooned on the Cocos Islands. After failing to get a flight out for three weeks he'd so fallen in love with the place he stayed another month, or two, then three. Had gone quite 'native' by the time he had to get back to work. I'm going out to Christmas Island shortly, I hope it's as good as the pics of Cocos looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 One's an atoll and the other (Christmas) was mined for phosphate and the end of the strip is a great cliff on the Southern side. There used to be a lot of LAND CRABS there but the ants have killed them off I believe. The whole Island is quite high above the sea, whereas Cocos (Keeling) islands is only about 14 feet. The only road is about a Km long. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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