RA Aus Maintainers Authority

[Spriteah]

Back in August this year, I, (along with about 20 other guys) completed a one day course on Pilot/Operator Maintenance Training, and received a Certificate of Attainment, and endorsed by both RAA and CASA.I wonder if I still have to do the online course as well....

August this year (2013?). I was not aware of any course endorsed by RAA running at this time. Can you tell me more about the course. Sounds interesting. Regards, Jim.

 

 

[Spriteah]

I have built a GA experimental plane and a RAAus plane. Now to maintain the RAAus plane I will have to go through an examinaton, but I can do the GA maintenance and sign off the paperwork, without an exam.

Yenn, We are negotiating with CASA hoping to be able to obtain some exemptions based on past history. Stay tuned for updates.

 

Jim Tatlock

 

Victorian State Rep.

 

 

[Teckair]

Suck it up teck

Wasn't only talking about you either, I am used to the way you carry on.

 

 

[M61A1]

Can you still do it in imperial? Say 4.5 gallons

All the fuel bowsers around here do litres, but still if I travel to the US or Pomgolia I can still do it easily.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Question for Jim, why is the RAA doing this? What are the incidents where lack of knowledge of maintenance has been identified as the primary cause?

 

How does CASA expect to change people's attitude to maintenance with just a multichoice questionnaire?

 

I'm all for this if it makes aviation safer, which it won't.

 

 

[storchy neil]

fly tornado, why is the RAA doing this? What are the incidents where lack of knowledge of maintenance has been identified as the primary cause?

 

may be some one has realized that chain of responsibility and accountability is not there and they don't want it neil

 

 

[Teckair]

why is the RAA doing this? What are the incidents where lack of knowledge of maintenance has been identified as the primary cause?

Any system where some one can buy a 2 seat plane and automatically become a maintainer regardless of their suitability is likely to not end up well. It needs more than an online test to sort it out so expect more.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

If there are no events that triggered this change, why not just furnish people with the information via the website relevant to their needs.

 

 

[Spriteah]

Fly and others, Good questions but hard to discuss at this point of time. I will say that these proposed changes are not being driven by RAA and we are working behind the scenes to get the best possible outcome. As much as I hate to sound secretive it would not be beneficial to our organisation to have a full debate on this issue on this forum and still expect to conduct productive talks with the regulator.

 

Statistics are something I am very passionate about. There are some troubling stats at this time that need to be address. Ie: 13 fatalities in 12 Months.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Are you and the rest of the board 100% happy that this new multiple choice test is going to significantly impact on that figure?

 

Statistically, you have 10,000 men in their 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s and 40s involved in a high risk activity. Without meeting a high medical standard of fitness its hard to see how you rule health as a major contributor to these crashes.

 

Wouldn't it be better to randomly select 20 planes from the RAA register, inspect them without notice and get some idea of the potential maintenance issues first?

 

 

[Oscar]

Jim, I think we all need to accept that RAA must have a productive relationship with CASA - even if at times it seems CASA is just intruding in our activities for no discernible benefit to us. Whether we like it or not, we are a very, very small sector of society and from a political POV, we are very much low-hanging fruit for an organisation that has legislative responsibility for anything that flies and needs to be 'seen to be doing something' about aviation safety (and as you have so succinctly stated, our statistics are not pretty at the moment. Roughly 24 people die on the roads every WEEK across Australia - but most of those deaths do not make the front-page on the majority of news services nationally, whereas any aircraft crash almost invariably does.)

 

Whether we feel that this is just another example of unwarranted intrusion or perhaps a misguided 'we're from the Government and we're here to help' move, raging antipathy does us no service as an organisation. Better by far to show willing and negotiate in good faith for a sensible and practical outcome - and even if one is extremely confident of one's own ability, closing off the possibility that one might just learn something to one's advantage is a highly obdurate position to take. Better by far, I believe, for us as an organisation to approach CASA with the attitude that we accept the need for and endorse the application of a sensible and practical standard of performance - now let's thrash out co-operatively a sensible and achievable standard.

 

I have almost always found that in group learning sessions, there is an exchange of information (and examples) from personal experiences that adds value to the basic curriculum for all present: the sum of the learning experience is enriched by the contribution of such information. A simple on-line multiple-choice exam does not do that. We individually have far more to gain by spending the time required to gain an endorsement that we know what we are doing (or at least, appear to so do) than raging against the idea. The former shows us in the mind of the general public as being responsible members of society; the latter sets us in the public perception as being intransigent and arrogant.

 

 

[ave8rr]

I wonder if there's any recognition of courses such as SAAA maintenance course as that was a 2 day course and a exam

And that's for those who have built their aircraft so they can maintain it and issue a maintenance release.

RAAus is just having to do what has been required of SAAA in the past year or so.

 

 

[Nev25]

But can one do the course or the online exam without being a member??

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Roughly 24 people die on the roads every WEEK across Australia

All of whom could have been servicing their vehicles themselves with no training or accreditation whatsoever ?

 

 

[greybeard]

Or maybe another way of looking at it is that whatever is or isn't being done at the moment isn't working. To many people are falling off the perch.

 

Rules and regulations are only ever needed if the participants attitudes and peer pressure doesn't achieve. Yes ignorance can and does occur. After all if you don't know how to maintain an aircraft then it can bite you in the rear. Whatever you are responsible for, aren't you the one who should be continually seeking more knowledge?

 

It obviously isn't happening that enough people are taking enough responsibility for their own education, hence the changing rules. I can't see the point in bitching and winging about them. They will never be perfect but there is nothing stopping anyone from standing up and suggesting change. Nor is there any problem with anyone seeking knowledge and doing more than is legislated.

 

Bottom line is that people are dying, CASA are the legislated responsible entity and appear to be poking the stick because the future dead aren't poking themselves enough.

 

 

[M61A1]

Fly and others, Good questions but hard to discuss at this point of time. I will say that these proposed changes are not being driven by RAA and we are working behind the scenes to get the best possible outcome. As much as I hate to sound secretive it would not be beneficial to our organisation to have a full debate on this issue on this forum and still expect to conduct productive talks with the regulator.Statistics are something I am very passionate about. There are some troubling stats at this time that need to be address. Ie: 13 fatalities in 12 Months.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock.

So, we can assume then that they have some breakdown of the causes of these fatalities?.....

And they would be?.....

 

 

[fly_tornado]

How many RAA accidents get properly investigated?

 

 

[robinsm]

2 stroke mix, 400ml to 20lts fuel. Simple. 2 and a half jerry cans to the 1 litre bottle of Activ 2t.

 

 

[Bandit12]

Statistics are something I am very passionate about. There are some troubling stats at this time that need to be address. Ie: 13 fatalities in 12 Months.

I'm passionate about stats too. But unless you have some serious data that isn't readily available in the public domain, you will be hard pressed to answer the question of what systematic problem is occurring. Forgetting about this year alone for a second, is there any work being done to work out why the comparable GA fatality rate is half that of RA-Aus over the last decade?

 

 

[horsefeathers]

August this year (2013?). I was not aware of any course endorsed by RAA running at this time. Can you tell me more about the course. Sounds interesting. Regards, Jim.

PM sent

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Having built my own airplane it's safe to say I know a fair bit about it, but I still worry that issues might arise with the airframe or engine that I might not recognise as being dangerous. Corrosion or loose bolts...sure, they're dangerous. But what about that tiny dent in the trailing edge of the aileron? Is that dangerous? It might be if you have balanced control surfaces, or maybe the dent is a sign that something might be hidden in the hinge.

 

Would I pay to go on a maintainers course? In a heartbeat!

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

So who teaches the teachers?

How many of you have (and use) (i) FAA AC 43.13-1; (ii) The maintenance manual for your aircraft (assuming it's not a homebuilt); (iii) An aircraft weight & balance authority (See CAO 100.7 - no, RAA is NOT exempt from it). The information is (mostly) available if you know where to look.

 

 

[M61A1]

How many of you have (and use) (i) FAA AC 43.13-1; (ii) The maintenance manual for your aircraft (assuming it's not a homebuilt); (iii) An aircraft weight & balance authority (See CAO 100.7 - no, RAA is NOT exempt from it). The information is (mostly) available if you know where to look.

I have my AC 43.13, none of my aircraft (Drifter and 95.10), have what I would call a maintenance manual, with the exception of the engine. If there is something specific about CAO100.7 that applies could you perhaps point it out? While we're not exempt, I can't see anything that might apply. It pretty much starts with stating all aircraft must be weighed prior to issue of an airworthiness certificate. I thought most of us didn't have airworthiness certificates, being the reason we have to have "fly at your own risk" placards. I am open to correction.

Note: my Drifter manual does have a weight and balance procedure listed, along with a page for weights to be annotated.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

I have my AC 43.13, none of my aircraft (Drifter and 95.10), have what I would call a maintenance manual, with the exception of the engine. If there is something specific about CAO100.7 that applies could you perhaps point it out? While we're not exempt, I can't see anything that might apply. It pretty much starts with stating all aircraft must be weighed prior to issue of an airworthiness certificate. I thought most of us didn't have airworthiness certificates, being the reason we have to have "fly at your own risk" placards. I am open to correction.Note: my Drifter manual does have a weight and balance procedure listed, along with a page for weights to be annotated.

Good point; CAO 100.7 is empowered by CAR 235 (which is what CAO 95.55 does NOT include in its list of exclusions) - so you could reasonably argue that that makes compliance with what's in the Drifter manual mandatory.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Having built my own airplane it's safe to say I know a fair bit about it, but I still worry that issues might arise with the airframe or engine that I might not recognise as being dangerous. Corrosion or loose bolts...sure, they're dangerous. But what about that tiny dent in the trailing edge of the aileron? Is that dangerous? It might be if you have balanced control surfaces, or maybe the dent is a sign that something might be hidden in the hinge.Would I pay to go on a maintainers course? In a heartbeat!

And to me that's the most important part of the L1. Knowing what you know, and a very clear understanding of what things you need to let an expert look at. Having access to all the manuals is one thing, but in no way does it replace a lifetime of skills and experience in those that do it for a living.

 

My L1 allowed me to do the tappets and called for diagnostic checks that allowed me to identify when my engine was unserviceable, despite being able to start and run and appear in all superficial ways to be ok. But when it came to overhaul......That was best undertaken by an expert.....I probably could have got to the end of the overhaul manual myself but I would have had no confidence that the job was done right (as opposed to just done as per the manual) and that I didn't miss a dozen vital clues along the way that all wasn't well...... For example I was told that the crosshatching on the new cylinders wasn't as per J's spec, even though they came from J. I would just have assumed they were Ok. The expert sent them out to an overhaul company to do again with the right hones because J wouldn't accept that they were done wrong.....another set at Narromine for another overhauler were also identified independently as wrong. if they were just fitted as supplied (crosshatching way too fine) then I was told oil consumption after reasonably small time would shoot up (actual out, all over the lower surface of the plane) and another overhaul would be called for....which is Ok, after all it was cheap! NOT!!!!

 

Andy