Big Kev Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Guys/ Gals, As a relative newby, I'm a bit confused. And please don't beat me up with the 'search' line, I have tried a few different ones, as well as the RAA listings. I'd be too old to fly before managing to sort through it all and get a handle on it. My first understanding: The OWNER can make modifications to their home designed or built plane, and can use it to be trained in. My current understanding: The BUILDER only can make mods to their home designed or built plane, and only the BUILDER can use it for training. I ask as I've found a 19- scratchbuilt that would need some non- structural fuse trimming, and a new canopy, for me to fit into it properly. Would there be a rego category that would allow this sort of work, post purchase? Cheers Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 As far as i know owner can change and alter things but only builder can now train in it..........doesnt make much sense to meespecially with plenty of factory assists out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 in my understanding, ONLY the builder can be trained in it. it cannot be used to train others in, and the builder can modify it, but a buyer of 19 rego aircraft can also modify and maintain it, as long as its supervised and signed off by an L2. 19 rego cannot be used for hire or reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 This is why I built my aircraft. I did initial training with a instructor in his factory built savannah VGXL as there is plenty of room especially if your instructor is a smaller person. I built mine and when I went solo I flew the 25hrs off in mine then after that I did my cross country training in my aircraft with my instructor. This is provided the instructor will train you in your own aircraft of course. the instructor can say yes or no. Big Kev…Why don't you look at a Savanna VGXL or a Savannah S they have a lot of room in them I am a big unit and mine is very comfortable I am 188cm tall and 125kg and have no issues with cabin space in it. Building will save you a heap of money and then of course the flying is much cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 in my understanding, ONLY the builder can be trained in it. 19 rego cannot be used for hire or reward. Hi Ultralights! Just borrowing part of your post to put my take on it. If training of the builder is conducted in the 19 rego aircraft, then thechnically, the instructor would have to instruct free of charge! Paying a fee to the instructor would be classed as using the aircraft for hire or reward!....Would it not? Frank. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Frank This is done quite a lot so I would think "training" in your own aircraft maybe looked upon differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi Ultralights! Just borrowing part of your post to put my take on it.If training of the builder is conducted in the 19 rego aircraft, then thechnically, the instructor would have to instruct free of charge! Paying a fee to the instructor would be classed as using the aircraft for hire or reward!....Would it not? Frank. But, you're not paying for the use of the aircraft in any way, you're only renting the instructor. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi Ultralights! Just borrowing part of your post to put my take on it.If training of the builder is conducted in the 19 rego aircraft, then thechnically, the instructor would have to instruct free of charge! Paying a fee to the instructor would be classed as using the aircraft for hire or reward!....Would it not? Frank. Exactly why this is dopey rule. Does solo nav count as training? What about check flights? Wouldnt it be smarter to train in the aircraft the pilot was going to fly? No knowledge that any maint other than LSA has to be supervised by L2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I guess it's a product of trying to make sure that aircraft used by training organisations are of a satisfactory standard, and that is understandable. Allowing the owner/builder is a sort of concession and covers the case where the particular type is RARE. It brings up other concerns too. Why would you expect an instructor to fly in a plane that may not be quite up to the usual standard and may have some alterations done etc.. The instructor may not be sufficiently familiar with it too. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Frank This is done quite a lot so I would think "training" in your own aircraft maybe looked upon differently Absolutely! I know of plenty of things that are done but are 'thehnically' illegal. They could be made legal, within safety guidelines and be a benifit to all of us. Exactly why this is dopey rule. In my opinion there many dopey rules that should be changed! Problem is! will we all agree on which rules are dopey and how will we determine the definition of a dopey rule! Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Exactly why this is dopey rule.Does solo nav count as training? What about check flights? Wouldnt it be smarter to train in the aircraft the pilot was going to fly? No knowledge that any maint other than LSA has to be supervised by L2 Flying schools realised that they where missing out on hire $$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Flying schools realised that they where missing out on hire $$ More like it No one is saying instructor HAS to train pilot in their own aircraft, if they arent happy with ac dont get in it same as everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 But, you're not paying for the use of the aircraft in any way, you're only renting the instructor Good point! Another technicality to my mind though! The aircraft is being used for reward to the instructor. Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 We looked into this including ringing raa. 19 cant be used for training unless your the builder full stop. No ifs no buts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Fat lot of good punching holes in the air with a Jab on a nav endorsement is if you own a rag and tube plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greybeard Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Fat lot of good punching holes in the air with a Jab on a nav endorsement is if you own a rag and tube plane. Aren't the skills transferable? I did my navs in a C172 and have managed to navigate anything from a skyfox ( rag and tube ) to a C177 ( alloy ) using the same skills. I haven't flown anything made out of plastic and/or fibreglass so is there something special about them as far as navigation and skill transfer goes? Do I need a plastic navigation endorsement? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Fat lot of good punching holes in the air with a Jab on a nav endorsement is if you own a rag and tube plane. ????? I wasn't aware that a cross country endorsement was type specific. A nautical mile is a nautical mile and one in sixty is one in sixty no matter what you've got your ass strapped to. FT, sometimes I wonder....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 That's sort of my point if you aren't learning anything relevant to your plane, why not do it on a simulator. Save yourself a ton of cash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greybeard Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 That's sort of my point if you aren't learning anything relevant to your plane, why not do it on a simulator. Save yourself a ton of cash. cool, a plastic simulator. wonder what you log the hours as? Bakelite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I had situation on a trip where I could only get 91 octane ulp , I gave floods a call to see how I'd go using it in my 912uls, and whether I could use an octane additive , answer DON'T, I was putting it over about 30 l of AvGas and they reckon just don't do any high load full power stuff and keep an eye on the temps and it'll be fine, according to Wal(resident rotax guru) at floods anything in the oil has the potential to harm the gearbox clutch, Matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 cool, a plastic simulator. wonder what you log the hours as? Bakelite? GA has adopted simulation, fixes a lot of problems with endorsements like bad weather, instructor unavailable, plane unavailable, student busy. etc. you can do you simulation at night because the computer doesn't know its night time. Your instructor doesn't need to be there because there is this thing called the internet. The RAA aren't concerned about costs of aviation increasing, its only once it gets really unaffordable that they'll think of fixing the system, like GA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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