RAAus Price gouging - what next??

[spacesailor]

But:

 

Why not make the Seller get the ACR, he only needs to do it once!, a bit expensive if multiple buyer's each have to shell out for that piece of paper.

 

The new owner only has to put their X in the allotted box on the ACR the seller has purchased from an L2. And RAA + CASA should be happy

 

spacesailor

 

 

[terryc]

Continuing to pay the rego looks like a cheaper option than letting it lapse.

 

That sounds good but what if raa refuse to register it which is what happened to me. So now three years later I have an aircraft sitting in the shed and now I've lost interest.

 

 

[spacesailor]

ME TOO

 

Glad I didn't expend too big a sum on it, I actually started another one as drilling out the monel rivets is a big pain.

 

It's huge a shame that such a safe & good looking aircraft has to jump through too many hoops to get certified.

 

Strip it down to it's component parts, (drill-out the monel rivets) photograph each bit, then have someone oversee it's assembly again. All for the Bureaucracy of a none useful "wing-loading".

 

They fly great without a wing-loading, And I thought a 6X6 G-rating, (actually it's 6X4 with the training wing-tips on) would have made a better safety indicator.

 

I must look into the Hummel Ultracruiser as it has a wing-loading of only 4.9 (something) and the weight is 50lb lighter, But the G load is down to only 4.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Iirc, both the seller and the buyer have to fill stuff in on the form.

 

If the ACR is meant to be for buyer protection then it makes sense for the buyer to get it done and personally supervise the work. That's what I would want if I were buying an aircraft. If there is a contract between the person buying the aircraft and the person preparing the ACR then buyer has contractual rights against the preparer of the ACR.

 

If the ACR is a contract between the seller and the person doing the ACR the buyer has no contractual rights against the preparer of the ACR.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Don , There is no buyer's protection on the ACR form at all, RAA require it for registering the new owners particulars in their data base.

 

If like the motor industry the seller has to get the roadworthy certificate, fill in the name of the new owner send it off to RAA ,it would make a lot more sense.

 

One inspection, pass or fail, it gets signed sealed & sent off to the Bureaucrats.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[DonRamsay]

If all RAA required the ACR for was "for registering the new owners particulars" then the only thing required would be the new owners name & contact details. The form is intended to tell the purchaser the Aurcrafts condition. Aircraft sales may involve crash damaged aircraft so the concept of a RWC does not apply.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Don,

 

does that mean an aircraft with damage wont get an ACR, & thus not be able to be registered?.

 

I doubt it.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[DonRamsay]

An aircraft with substantial damage can go through a change of owner process with that information reported on the ACR. As has been said many times the ACR is not a statement of airworthiness. What happens with the registration in that situation I don't know. I hav only ever bought and sold airworthy aircraft.

 

 

[Riley]

An aircraft with substantial damage can go through a change of owner process with that information reported on the ACR. As has been said many times the ACR is not a statement of airworthiness. What happens with the registration in that situation I don't know. I hav only ever bought and sold airworthy aircraft.

From experience, RAA take your paperwork and money, transfer ownership of the pile of components into your name then it sits in 'limbo' until such time as the A/C is either ready to go back in the air (or is passed on to an aspiring new owner) where-in a fresh ACR is required for the change of status. Two such 'gunna's' reside in my hangar at present.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Too True, Riley,

 

But when the new owner is ready to cart it all down to the airfield and get it assessed as ready for the test flight, is when things can go so terribly wrong,(wrong wing-loading/too high a stall speed). Then it goes back as a Gunna.

 

One day it Will make the bureaucrats list of rules, IE Powered-Parachute wing, as well as normal wings! .

 

I wonder what the Space-shuttle wing-loading was, on takeoff?

 

spacesailor

 

 

[M61A1]

And again: "It's an examination of the whole aircraft by a "competent" person, so should give some assurance to a PURCHASER, of the aircraft's integrity"BUT, the aircraft vendor does Not complete the ACR, the Buyer has to get it done so they can register it in their name, even if your new toy is a bag of bits, you need an ACR to change owner-ship.

spacesailor

Actually, it's more the other way round, it's supposed to be an independent inspection, by someone with no vested interest in the aircraft, to ensure the owner/s haven't misrepresented the aircraft's condition or weight. It's not for the owner's assurance, it's for RAA's assurance.

The owner is supposed to do their own homework about what they are buying, there have been many articles in the Magazine over the years about this.

 

The whole idea of our type of flying was to embrace "owner/pilot responsibility", we've lost that the moment you start wanting to make someone else responsible for your stuff.

 

 

[kasper]

Too True, Riley,But when the new owner is ready to cart it all down to the airfield and get it assessed as ready for the test flight, is when things can go so terribly wrong,(wrong wing-loading/too high a stall speed). Then it goes back as a Gunna.

One day it Will make the bureaucrats list of rules, IE Powered-Parachute wing, as well as normal wings! .

 

I wonder what the Space-shuttle wing-loading was, on takeoff?

 

spacesailor

Well the space shuttle took off vertically so the wing area was not really an issue

 

 

[fly_tornado]

But:Why not make the Seller get the ACR, he only needs to do it once!, a bit expensive if multiple buyer's each have to shell out for that piece of paper.

The new owner only has to put their X in the allotted box on the ACR the seller has purchased from an L2. And RAA + CASA should be happy

 

spacesailor

I'll give you an example of what a facade this process is, a guy I know bought an old Thruster from a seller about 500kms away in rural NSW. He rocks up and the seller and L2 signed off on the ACR, being that the L2 was also the local flight instructor and the sale of the plane would allow the seller to buy a new plane and more flying, there was a clear incentive to push through the sale. If the sellers L2 didn't do the ACR who would have done it, him being the only L2 in 300kms? The buyer would have to buy the aircraft and then ship it to an L2 or pay for the L2 to travel to the site. After that expense, there still needs to spend money on rectifying faults.