Kyle Communications Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Looks like a Brumby in SA had a scare in a paddock..something about a fuel pump issue. Well it looks like a new Brumby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Jeez, stinking hot and windy here so he must have been keen! Glad no damage or injuries occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Cowra aero clubs brumby has electric backup pump, not sure if they are all like this. I guess we will learn the full story from RAAus accident and incidents, or not. https://www.facebook.com/186714264692570/posts/3920784107952215/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 so changing tanks error ? one tank selected and one tank low, intermittent supply during banking manouvers ? High wing. gravity feed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Talking in general terms and not directly about this aircraft or incident. Single fuel valve, dual tank aircraft have crashed in the past because once air is exposed to the fuel pump it will not "pick-up" from the other (full) tank. I definately prefer selector valves for each tank. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Downunder said: Talking in general terms and not directly about this aircraft or incident. Single fuel valve, dual tank aircraft have crashed in the past because once air is exposed to the fuel pump it will not "pick-up" from the other (full) tank. I definately prefer selector valves for each tank. That’s quite topical, DU. Early this morning I was low on fuel in my left wing tank (burning up the last of the AvGas so I could fill it with MoGas for an experiment). I was keeping an eye on the Mizer, ready to switch over to the other tank. It wasn’t the ideal location for this particular exercise, flying among some rugged peaks with plenty of turbulence. Long ago while doing something similar I got a scare because it took far too long for the fuel to reach the engine after switching tanks. After that I installed a separate air vent in the small gravity tank downstream of the wing tanks. I now have more confidence in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said: Long ago while doing something similar I got a scare because it took far too long for the fuel to reach the engine after switching tanks. I have trialled running one tank empty (I have dual tank/dual valve setup) and it was only AFTER the valve on the empty tank was closed it pulled from the other, open tank. Note: high wing aircraft and no electric pump. Just the Rotax mechanical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 According to RAAus this Brumby has a Rotax 912iS. That is a least 6 engine power loss incidents involving iS engines in 2020 that I am aware of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 All 912xxxx Rotax use fuel return bypass back to tank, dont they, to keep things circulating ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted November 29, 2020 Author Share Posted November 29, 2020 Yes they do well ln the installs I have seen do..the IS engines seem to issues with plugs etc from the couple at our airfield. They have had issues luckily on the ground where they dont start..turned out to be a lot of the internal plug connections from what I have been told Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datson Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 EFI fuel pumps should NEVER be run dry, the precision internals burn up quick without fuel to keep them cool and lubricated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaba-who Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 On 29/11/2020 at 4:12 PM, Thruster88 said: According to RAAus this Brumby has a Rotax 912iS. That is a least 6 engine power loss incidents involving iS engines in 2020 that I am aware of. Wow. Does this mean CASA are going to do the same as they did to Jabiru a few years back? Somehow I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 I thought that Jabiru engine debacle was due to corruption and abuse of power. Somebody had it in for Jabiru and was gonna make em pay. Or am I mistaken? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 On 29/11/2020 at 5:12 PM, Thruster88 said: According to RAAus this Brumby has a Rotax 912iS. That is a least 6 engine power loss incidents involving iS engines in 2020 that I am aware of. Ok this failure is not related to the engine. The pilot just used to much top rudder, always better than to much bottom rudder. DateLocationStateAircraftModelEngineModelSummary 26/11/2020Bugle RangesSABrumbyLSA R610Rotax912ISSTATUS: Under investigation EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: The aircraft had 55 litres in one ta... STATUS: Under investigation EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: The aircraft had 55 litres in one tank and nil in the other and both tanks are connected. The pilot had both tanks selected on. When the aircraft banked away from the empty fuel tank air was sucked into the fuel line and got a fuel pressure warning and the engine lost power. The aircraft landed in a paddock. Accident and incident reports are only useful if we learn from them. I mean no disrespect to the pilot involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 22 minutes ago, Thruster88 said: Ok this failure is not related to the engine. The pilot just used to much top rudder, always better than to much bottom rudder. When the aircraft banked away from the empty fuel tank air was sucked into the fuel line and got a fuel pressure warning and the engine lost power. The aircraft landed in a paddock. There's much to be said for the small receiver tank some aircraft have in the fuselage, where fuel flows from the main tanks to the receiver, then on to the engine........ 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) My Jab has receiver tank, 5 litres. Isolates those moments nicely. Indicator light on that tank going LOW is a good warning ! Just another nice Jabiru airframe design feature. (disregarding the electronics for a moment !) Edited January 2, 2021 by RFguy 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmanr Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 My Kitfox IV runs the same. Normal for Kitfox. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Same with the Savannah: 6L plus warning light, gives you 20min to get your s**t together.......... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Again- this is useful because the receiver fuel level warning light it would tell you what is about to happen - instead of you guessing and troubleshooting after the fact. I think with the 5 litres, and light going at 3.5... in the 230 probably have 15 minutes at descent power... BUT you know what the problem is- you ran out of fuel ! That saved troubleshooting time would well be worth the preparation it would afford for the forced landing. It would be fairly easy to do a better warning sensor to tell if the receiver tank wasnt full to the brim , and would buy another 5 minutes etc.maybe total 20 min in the J230... Something I will do , the long list.... -Glen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 My Fuel Mixer gives off some pretty unmissable beeps as soon as it is down to 8 litres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 9 hours ago, RFguy said: Again- this is useful because the receiver fuel level warning light it would tell you what is about to happen - instead of you guessing and troubleshooting after the fact. I think with the 5 litres, and light going at 3.5... in the 230 probably have 15 minutes at descent power... BUT you know what the problem is- you ran out of fuel ! That saved troubleshooting time would well be worth the preparation it would afford for the forced landing. It would be fairly easy to do a better warning sensor to tell if the receiver tank wasnt full to the brim , and would buy another 5 minutes etc.maybe total 20 min in the J230... Something I will do , the long list.... -Glen. The Savannah has a float operated reed switch in the top of the receiver tank, an indicator light at the RH instrument panel, and a test button. I have duplicated the indicator at the LH with a large flashing LED (from RS Components). It is important to know that the test button only tests the indicators, not the reed switch (and they can fail). So I periodically test the entire circuit by starting and taxiing with all tanks valved off. My preflight checks always include a run through the fuel system, from level gauges through tank and isolator valves to fuel pump, so I am confident of being correctly valved on prior to takeoff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Pilot Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 On 02/01/2021 at 4:42 PM, Thruster88 said: Ok this failure is not related to the engine. The pilot just used to much top rudder, always better than to much bottom rudder. I thought the idea was to fly balanced? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBob Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 On 03/01/2021 at 8:07 AM, IBob said: The Savannah has a float operated reed switch in the top of the receiver tank, an indicator light at the RH instrument panel, and a test button. I have duplicated the indicator at the LH with a large flashing LED (from RS Components). It is important to know that the test button only tests the indicators, not the reed switch (and they can fail). So I periodically test the entire circuit by starting and taxiing with all tanks valved off. My preflight checks always include a run through the fuel system, from level gauges through tank and isolator valves to fuel pump, so I am confident of being correctly valved on prior to takeoff. Further to the above, I just came across the part number for the large red flashing LEDs I used for my low fuel indicators. I have them on L and R of the panel (connected in parallel) and they work well. For anyone who may be interested, they are RS Components, RS Stock No: 209-119 NZ$8 each 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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