It’s A Shame This Kind Of Thing Can’t Happen In Australia?

[jackc]

We need to get more interest in Aviation in Australia 

It seems Textron and AOPA U.S. are making plans…..

 

https://m.facebook.com/AOPApilots/videos/453437973318306/?extid=NS-UNK-UNK-UNK-UNK_GK0T-GK1C-GK2C&ref=sharing&_rdr

Edited July 22, 2022 by jackc
spelling

[Old Koreelah]

Coonabarabran Aero Club is doing some good things with local school kids.

[turboplanner]

This is a Recreational Aviation group where people fly for sport and pay heavily for the privilege. Paying for other people’s kids to enjoy a recreational activity is a nice philanthropically idea but not a good business model. RAA members only have to think back to the time their money was used for training selected students. Could all those students post about their experiences and career milestones so we can see the good use our money was put to.

 

[onetrack]

Textron throws a million bucks into support of the AOPA Foundations, "You Can Fly" initiative and its High School Aviation STEM Curriculum? So, tell me there's no self-interest in that move? A nice big tax deduction to boot, so no major cost to Textron, but the potential to greatly increase aviation engine sales, to fend off the electric power in aviation, advancing threat? Cynical? Moi?

[facthunter]

Read up about the latest progress (or lack of) with aviation UL fuel.  Also recall the "anyone can  fly a plane" Initiative  Nev

[Carbon Canary]

 

A volunteer organisation including volunteer instructors have delivered flight instruction to 15-18 yr olds at Camden airport since 1972.

 

Celebrating 50 Years - Air Activity Centre (scouts.com.au)

 

A QF captain who flew on the JFK to YSSY leg in the Qantas Sunrise test flights got his wings through there, as has a number of other current QF pilots, RFDS, Cathay, military, etc, etc. 

[Carbon Canary]

 

What I should have added is that ab-initio training in GA at ~ $430/hr (+ ~$30 landing fee) at metro airports is vastly beyond the reach of most school leavers and also beyond most aviation businesses to subsidise in any way. Volunteer organisations such as Scouts and Air League are not immune to the increased regulatory pressure and costs but both still operate at Camden as not-for-profit flying operations, and they should be applauded.  Both have survived by extraordinary fundraising efforts, donations and sheer doggedness in the face of adversity. Neither operation competes with commercial flying schools - they deliver motivated students to them. 

 

RA certainly offers a cheaper pathway for flight training, but the demographic tends to be older and the motivation is predominantly recreational rather than a career - which is quite OK ! 

 

The key question that maybe Jackc is asking is 'How do we get more youth interested in aviation ?'  The only answer I have to that is that enthusiasm is infectious, and RA offers a large amount of enthusiasm.   

 

Take a kid flying.

[jackc]

And sadly RAA Flying Schools @ $300 plus per hour are pricing themselves out of business,  one has just closed at Gympie that charged that money, THEN the Council lumped them with $13.20 per landing but as many as you like for the next hour only.

So, everyone that benefited from that Flying School has lost out, including Council.

Will the future of RAA Flying Schools stand the coming inflation and interest rates?  Only IF they choose to run lower budget aircraft from ALAs?  Our future may not be so rosy unless people get creative…….

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, jackc said:

And sadly RAA Flying Schools @ $300 plus per hour are pricing themselves out of business,  one has just closed at Gympie that charged that money, THEN the Council lumped them with $13.20 per landing but as many as you like for the next hour only.

So, everyone that benefited from that Flying School has lost out, including Council.

Will the future of RAA Flying Schools stand the coming inflation and interest rates?  Only IF they choose to run lower budget aircraft from ALAs?  Our future may not be so rosy unless people get creative…….

RAA should be working on the Financial model for the benefit of the Operator, the Council and the Trainee.

I'm sorry for the operator and because he is named I won't look at his operation, but here are a few variables:

Where the costs start climbing some operators put the price up to cover the increase.

But there's a thing in marketing called "sticker shock". Every product had a price at which customers reduce their buying and another where they walk away.

If you get into this zone, it's very difficult to make money.

At the other end of the scale there's a crossover point in price where the volume of customers starts to increase exponentially as the price lowers.

If you pitch too low you also make losses.

But somewhere along that curve there's a price where an optimum number of clients come in and they generate the turnover that pays costs and increases and makes a good profit.

In every business street there's a few of each.

 

There's a similar skill involved with Councils, who will usually be trying to cover the outgoing costs.

Some people on this forum have been very successful at handling this with deals that mostly require volunteering to save Council paying out wages etc - a win win.

A repetitive charge like landing fees sucks the blood out of an operator and the sticker shock will see him and the clients depart.

 

A good financial model is the foundation, then marketing brings the numbers in to make the dollars go round.

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

The only mate who got his son into the airlines as a pilot lived to see his son, plus a couple of other Jetstar pilots, leave the industry.

I think they probably did the right thing. The pay and conditions were not very good and they are happier as boutique brewers.

At the ASC, we tried hard to assist the tuition fees for some hopefuls. They were good kids that graduated from our program but alas, they could not afford to fly enough and slowly drifted away.

[kgwilson]

Our club has a Junior member category and a couple of members (one an ex GA CFI) run weekly meetings and are going through the RAA ground syllabus with them. They get to go flying (free) with members every now & again who explain how the principles are put into practice. Age is between about 10 & 14 & parental approval is required for all activities. Some will drop out but there are a few that I think will keep going.

[facthunter]

There's a lot of bucks in it and if it's not ringing your bell, you will drift away. Planes have always been like that. When I started, a weeks wages bought you about 2 flying hours.. I think it's better than that now.  Nev

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

There's a lot of bucks in it and if it's not ringing your bell, you will drift away. Planes have always been like that. When I started, a weeks wages bought you about 2 flying hours.. I think it's better than that now.  Nev

Yes it is, but that leads to the other series of discussions, where not suprisingly people want to fly for the same as they paid to do the test for their Jetski. That's partly because today's industry doesn't lay out a plan which everyone sees which gets their head around the long game.

 

I mentioned marketing before; it's a skill that takes about ten years to learn; flying schools are not in the business of flying; like most businesses they are in the business of turning over dollars.

 

So some have always failed from the 1920s and some have built empires.

 

I wouldn't get too excited that someone has closed in your area; that certainly doesn't mean its ha[[ening all over the country. If there are still around 10,000 RAA members that tells me RAA is still currently more successful than GA. Member numbers and aircraft numbers are the KPI for this industry.

[jackc]

And more successful than GFA who are losing  members as well…..

 

[facthunter]

Historically IF you wanted to make a lot of money you wouldn't choose flight schools as the way to do it. Today it competes with many more things than it used to. The regime you operate under (offences of strict liability) most thinking people wouldn't operate under if they are flying for Fun.. Nev

[jackc]

For many, it’s not about money……I had big business opportunities offered to me IF I agreed to move to the U.S. I declined as I have never been about swimming pools, movie stars and fast cars.  I have happily lived in the bush doing the things I enjoy.

Money is not everything in this life.  So long as you can enjoy yourself, buy some food etc.  I built a new house 15 years ago and the builder specced in a dishwasher, I said WHY……you are talking to the ‘dishwasher’ 🙂 

[Thruster88]

On 23/07/2022 at 11:57 AM, onetrack said:

Textron throws a million bucks into support of the AOPA Foundations, "You Can Fly" initiative and its High School Aviation STEM Curriculum? So, tell me there's no self-interest in that move? A nice big tax deduction to boot, so no major cost to Textron, but the potential to greatly increase aviation engine sales, to fend off the electric power in aviation, advancing threat? Cynical? Moi?

I doubt textron is doing this to protect their engine business. Textron has recently certified two new aircraft that the market wants, the beechcraft denali  and cessna sky courier.  They would be keeping an eye on electric technology and will have product when that tec is ready.  https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/raytheon-invests-in-verdego-hybrid-technology/

[Carbon Canary]

 

.........and of course Textron purchased Pipistrel.  With the market announcement of that, they also mentioned they were forming "a new business segment, Textron eAviation, focussed on the development of sustainable aircraft".

 

Textron to acquire electric aircraft pioneer Pipistrel – Pipistrel Aircraft (pipistrel-aircraft.com)