RAA renewal rates.

[spenaroo]

so have to renew my membership and it gives 3 options.

12 months, 2 years, 3 years.

 

all fairly standard but gets interesting when you look at the cost breakdown.

12 months $285

2 years $559 ($11 saving)
3 years $840 ($15 saving)

doesn't seem to be much incentive to go for the 3 years....

[spacesailor]

Especially when your four-score years old ! .

spacesailor

[kgwilson]

You only save 1.9% by paying 2 years in advance & only 1.75% for 3 years. That is not an incentive at all when you can now get up to 5% on a 12 month fixed deposit and with interest rates on the rise that will increase. 

[coljones]

10 hours ago, spenaroo said:

so have to renew my membership and it gives 3 options.

12 months, 2 years, 3 years.

 

all fairly standard but gets interesting when you look at the cost breakdown.

12 months $285

2 years $559 ($11 saving)
3 years $840 ($15 saving)

doesn't seem to be much incentive to go for the 3 years....

It does make sense as a buffer against inflation.  You could earn 4% if the money was in the bank but you would probably lose 2% after inflation - or even worse you could feel rich and spend it on your wife (or worser - give it to your ungrateful children).  So many permutations

[old man emu]

Ahh! The benefits of moving from "Incorporated" to "Limited"

[coljones]

22 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Ahh! The benefits of moving from "Incorporated" to "Limited"

Supposedly, there are many benefits of moving to federal incorporation but with a regime that is more about collecting fees and forcing players into miles of paperwork there is little to commend it. 

 

It doesn't cut down systemic or casual abuse and at the end of the day it is marginally above a corporation located in a tax haven.

 

The ATO does keep some on the straight and narrow about tax but doesn't oversight morals. 

 

The only beneficiaries of commonwealth incorporation are the lawyers and bean counters.

[old man emu]

I was implying that by going from an association to a limited liability company, those who were members of the association relinquish control of the operations controlling their interests. 

 

I could be corrected as I have not read RAAus' constitution, so can't comment on member's input into decision-making.

[kgwilson]

As a member you are effectively a shareholder and have the same control over the company as in an incorporated association, i.e none. You can complain and you can stand for election to the board. You have the same voting rights in either type of body so if you want to see change you have to get active and advocate.

[old man emu]

It's effectively a lock-out. How can members at Corindi Beach, NSW gather together members from Serpentine WA and Caboolture Qld to attend a general meeting and vote as a block? Technically it is possible, but practically???

[coljones]

1 minute ago, old man emu said:

It's effectively a lock-out. How can members at Corindi Beach, NSW gather together members from Serpentine WA and Caboolture Qld to attend a general meeting and vote as a block? Technically it is possible, but practically???

It doesn't really matter. In an incorporated association It's effectively a lock-out. How can members at Corindi Beach, NSW gather together members from Serpentine WA and Caboolture Qld to attend a general meeting and vote as a block? Technically it is possible, but practically???

[facthunter]

There was a bit of looking after "mates" in the old AUF but at least it was about planes and not just having lots of members and trying to be the NEW GA. THAT's NEVER going to run.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

I wrote to RAA at least 1-2 years ago on this very subject - for a multi year subscription, to be attractive, its got to be a significant saving - cant remember if I got a reply or not. Either way nothing changed.

[facthunter]

IF you win "they" lose. This is a fair dinkum money making growing concern and there is NO parallel Path so if you don't like it lump it. They have to suck up to the CASA too,  so accept your fate. You are a captive customer.   Nev

[skippydiesel]

36 minutes ago, facthunter said:

IF you win "they" lose. This is a fair dinkum money making growing concern and there is NO parallel Path so if you don't like it lump it. They have to suck up to the CASA too,  so accept your fate. You are a captive customer.   Nev

I am not/would not suggest they run as a charity/loss/breakeven  organisation, I am just pointing out, that if they want to offer the service (1-2-3 years subscription) and presumably this benefits them (less work load more dosh in the till) then they would be advised to make the service an attributive proposition ie good $$ discount and or some other benefit. Marketing 101!

[facthunter]

Who are they competing with? That's my point.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

10 hours ago, facthunter said:

Who are they competing with? That's my point.  Nev

It is they, RAA ,who have offered alternatives to the 1 year subscription. What could their motives be in doing so?

 

1. Would RAA benefit from members taking out longer subscriptions?

 

Its possible that a larger cash injection, may assist with cash flow.  Processing fewer memberships subscriptions may reduce the work load (cost). Other

 

2. Is RAA  being charitable, offering a service (2-3 year subs) purely for the benefit of its membership?

 

Is this is a demonstration of RAA's commitment to its membership, made on the basis of cost neutrality.

 

If 1 is the thinking a more lucrative offer should be made - both consumer & provider derive a benefit

 

If 2 is the goal it is  "window dressing" without any advantage to either the provider or the consumer.

 

You pick.

 

 

 

 

[kgwilson]

I don't think much thought was given to it at all. As far as discounts go it is the most pathetic I've seen. When it was first proposed inflation was very low but fees kept on increasing at a greater rate. In 2009 full membership was $160.00. Last year that had increased to $275.00. It was $250.00 from 2019 - 2021 so there was no hedging against inflation if you paid 3 years in advance. Now with inflation at around 8% a 3 year up front payment may net you 6-9% plus the 1.75% discount. It's a gamble though with odds probably about as good as pokies.

[jackc]

13 hours ago, facthunter said:

IF you win "they" lose. This is a fair dinkum money making growing concern and there is NO parallel Path so if you don't like it lump it. They have to suck up to the CASA too,  so accept your fate. You are a captive customer.   Nev

There IS a choice, flip the whole lot of ‘em the bird, take your rego numbers off and just fly.  Your plane will fly just the same as it ever has.  You then take the risks and responsibilities for yourself.  Fly in remote places from friends private airstrips, do night VFR after midnight on a full Moon, what fun that would be 🙂 I know an old Aviator that CASA was chasing for running illegal joy flights, in remote Qld. It was a larger aircraft.  CASA staked him out but did not get out of bed early enough. He sold the plane in New Zealand, loaded full of fuel and flew it there, the flight was somewhat illegal too.  The evidence left the country 🙂 

All the RAA and CASA rules can never make Aviation fatality free, its like the road toll.  The responsibility for your life stops with YOU, and a degree of luck with it.  A lot of rules and regs will never cut it,  never expect any engineer to do the same quality of work on your aircraft as he does on his.   I even know of one recent crash where a supposed qualified person did a botch job on his own aircraft and crashed as a result.  He is still alive fortunately.  
So when I hear some great wank fest from our regulators, I ignore most of it and do my OWN research as these days I only trust myself………

[coljones]

30 minutes ago, jackc said:

There IS a choice, flip the whole lot of ‘em the bird, take your rego numbers off and just fly.  Your plane will fly just the same as it ever has.  You then take the risks and responsibilities for yourself.  Fly in remote places from friends private airstrips, do night VFR after midnight on a full Moon, what fun that would be 🙂 I know an old Aviator that CASA was chasing for running illegal joy flights, in remote Qld. It was a larger aircraft.  CASA staked him out but did not get out of bed early enough. He sold the plane in New Zealand, loaded full of fuel and flew it there, the flight was somewhat illegal too.  The evidence left the country 🙂 

All the RAA and CASA rules can never make Aviation fatality free, its like the road toll.  The responsibility for your life stops with YOU, and a degree of luck with it.  A lot of rules and regs will never cut it,  never expect any engineer to do the same quality of work on your aircraft as he does on his.   I even know of one recent crash where a supposed qualified person did a botch job on his own aircraft and crashed as a result.  He is still alive fortunately.  
So when I hear some great wank fest from our regulators, I ignore most of it and do my OWN research as these days I only trust myself………

But can the rest of us trust you?

[spenaroo]

I trust them to do a better job on my stuff, then what they do on their own🤣
ive worked with enough mechanics - definitely a different standard for paid customer work, then the bodgy "still works" on our own stuff

[facthunter]

Over about 30 years of flying for money all the MANY failures of equipment I've had were with qualified LAME's. When I've queried the standard the responses have been less than satisfactory. I wish it were otherwise. In medical matters it's worse. (By way of comparison.)  Mechanical work on  cars Much the same. I trust only myself and the very rare good mechanic.  (because I'm careful.)  Houses aren't built well either. Nev

[jackc]

10 hours ago, coljones said:

But can the rest of us trust you?

Nobody has to trust me…..IF they don't want to.  BUT sometimes I might be the only one to help them. Instance, was 45 years ago I lived in Coober Pedy, a Piper Aztec flew in and burst a tyre on landing, he also had a broken comms radio. His PAX had made a random call on his ham radio and I picked it up.  When the dust had settled, Pilot asks if any Aviation facility can help him.  I said, yeah in Wyalla or Port Augusta maybe.  I went out had a look and said, well IF you turn the other way I will fix it and you can fly away.  Comment was made, are you qualified in any thing?  I said no, I just fix sh1t when I have to.  A second hand industrial tyre and tube fixed the wheel, I had my electronic service kit, so found problem in radio, no transmit audio as wire in the remote transceiver was broken, fixed and working.

I said good to go and the flew off to Alice Springs…….another successful job without a LAME in sight 🙂 

 

[facthunter]

It's a safe improvisation.  Neither are highly technical but have to be done properly whoever does it. What sort of jack did you have? Aztec is built like a tank.   Nev

[jackc]

6 hours ago, facthunter said:

It's a safe improvisation.  Neither are highly technical but have to be done properly whoever does it. What sort of jack did you have? Aztec is built like a tank.   Nev

See that 44 gallon drum under right wing?  That was the only item marking the airstrip, we just jacked the wheel and used some blocks and brute force of 4 people to get it onto the drum.  When you dont have all the tools of a good workshop, I simply do what's needed for a temporary repair, taking into account what I am working with, knowing the possible safety implications. 

 

[Flying_higher]

On 10/3/2023 at 9:30 AM, kgwilson said:

I don't think much thought was given to it at all. As far as discounts go it is the most pathetic I've seen. When it was first proposed inflation was very low but fees kept on increasing at a greater rate. In 2009 full membership was $160.00. Last year that had increased to $275.00. It was $250.00 from 2019 - 2021 so there was no hedging against inflation if you paid 3 years in advance. Now with inflation at around 8% a 3 year up front payment may net you 6-9% plus the 1.75% discount. It's a gamble though with odds probably about as good as pokies.

Whilst I don't disagree that on the surface the multi-year discount is measly, but with inflation at record highs, by taking a multi year membership you would protect against fee rises during that period. Works the same as getting a fixed interest rate on your home loan. If fees go up 10%, you’re going to save about $30 in year two, and more in year three. And if you think about it from their (RAA) perspective, they don’t want to offer too much of a discount and incentivise too many people to take it up as they’ll lose big time as they won’t be able to make up that short fall to cover their increase in costs. 
 

all in all I think it they’ve made a reasonable decision with the multi year fees.