flying into ifr without training, sad outcome.

[Freizeitpilot]

Mixed units is when it gets absurd though.

 

Having a W&B moment expressed in kg inches !! 

[turboplanner]

12 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

What we've got to comply with is what we've got.

 

In answer to your question, when metric conversion came to Australia I'd just learnt Imperial, but realised the key factor was to be able to visualise the new measurements, so I started holding finger and thumb at 20 mm, 50 mm and visualising  1 metre and in building things, quickly adapted.

 

I could pace yards very accurately for mesuring post spacing and wire measuring for farm fences and had a lot more problem pacing metres; in fact don't trust myself even now,

 

I was luck enough (or unlucky enough) to catch the last of Full Reporting in cross country flying, and got to know exactly what 2 minutes to check point looked like, so converting, 5 km to minutes at cruise then practicing on every flight is not that hard, and gives you ample time to make a turn, and why would you wait to the last legal second anyway?

 

 

In answer to your direct question about 1,000 feet altitude:

For circuit flying learning to visualise  200 metres for rag and tube 70kt and under, 350 metres for RA above 7- kt and GA, 500 metres for high performance GA, that would equate to 587/1027/1467 feet, so visually not much different.

 

[Thruster88]

I am sure we would all love to buy new altimeter, airspeed indicators and WAC charts. FFS.

[BurnieM]

Reason to install an EFIS ?

 

Just change the units and save. 30 second, $0 job. 🙂

 

Edited May 19 by BurnieM

[Thruster88]

I am sure the efis industry is lobbying the government as we speak.

[BrendAn]

3 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Clearly not for you; it's very elementary and the conversion only has to be done once then used as the base. I'm stunned that people who are implying that they are PIC are saying there's a problem.

I would not call me a pic for a start. 

And metric to imp conversions can cause issues even in the big plane world. Remember the airliner that dead stick landed on a dragstrip in Canada because an American ground crew fuelled them up with pounds but the numbers given were kg.  

[turboplanner]

44 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

I would not call me a pic for a start. 

In that case you don't have to get involved in it. The PIC is responsible for it.

Training should have been done by the time you become PIC.

44 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

And metric to imp conversions can cause issues even in the big plane world. Remember the airliner that dead stick landed on a dragstrip in Canada because an American ground crew fuelled them up with pounds but the numbers given were kg.  

The people reading US magazines and books often screw up.

If you have a US aircraft or hire a US aircraft, you only have to write your notes with conversions once, thereafter using them. In the US they never completely finished their metric conversion program.

Edited May 19 by turboplanner

[BrendAn]

5 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

In that case you don't have to get involved in it. The PIC is responsible for it.

Training should have been done by the time you become PIC.

The people reading US magazines and books often screw up.

If you have a US aircraft or hire a US aircraft, you only have to write your notes with conversions once, thereafter using them. In the US they never completely finished their metric conversion program.

Sorry. I should keep off the thread I started. I simply made a statement about the mix of metric and imperial, somehow it always ends up with digs and insults from you. Thanks for that. 

[turboplanner]

2 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Sorry. I should keep off the thread I started. I simply made a statement about the mix of metric and imperial, somehow it always ends up with digs and insults from you. Thanks for that. 

It's go nothing to do with digs or insults.

 

If you read over your past posts you seem to drift from being a licensed pilot to doing basic learning and even having given it away for something else.

 

If you aren't a PIC then you aren't at the stage of needing P&O so the need to get more deeply into Metrice imperial mix isn't there. Apart from that IF ICAO has a mix and Australia has adopted that mix that's what we have to fly to so there's no point in raising alternatives. 

 

 

[Area-51]

Why not be like the French and just create a brand new and unique ASM! "Aviation Standard Measure"... Then there will be "zero" confusion! 😃👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍

[Area-51]

🤔🤔🤔🤔 1 ASM, 2 ASM, 3 ASM... 😀😀😀😀

[Area-51]

What is Vs0? 🤔🤔... 2.375 ASM 😃

 

 

[Area-51]

2 pilots enter the aircraft, each weighs 0.63 ASM, if 8 passengers arrive 3 time ASM before departure how many ASM of 0.246 ASM luggage can be moved from the rear luggage stow to the front luggage stow to achieve minimum 0.0564 ASM MAC CG before 0.321 ASM of extra fuel is added to the left auxiliary tank?

[turboplanner]

4 minutes ago, Area-51 said:

2 pilots enter the aircraft, each weighs 0.63 ASM, if 8 passengers arrive 3 time ASM before departure how many ASM of 0.246 ASM luggage can be moved from the rear luggage stow to the front luggage stow to achieve minimum 0.0564 ASM MAC CG before 0.321 ASM of extra fuel is added to the left auxiliary tank?

Is that in a Jab 160 or 170?

[Area-51]

3 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Is that in a Jab 160 or 170?

ASM challenges can be applied to any type aircraft 😊

[Deano747]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

 

The people reading US magazines and books often screw up.

 

Air Canada ........... not US carrier.

[BrendAn]

3 hours ago, turboplanner said:

It's go nothing to do with digs or insults.

 

If you read over your past posts you seem to drift from being a licensed pilot to doing basic learning and even having given it away for something else.

 

If you aren't a PIC then you aren't at the stage of needing P&O so the need to get more deeply into Metrice imperial mix isn't there. Apart from that IF ICAO has a mix and Australia has adopted that mix that's what we have to fly to so there's no point in raising alternatives. 

 

 

show me where i have said i was a licensed pilot and where i raised an alternative.  and metric does not have an e on the end, i thought the smartest bloke in australia would know that.

[jackc]

It was so much simpler……back in the Wright Bros days 🤩

Edited May 19 by jackc
Edit sentence

[BrendAn]

3 minutes ago, jackc said:

It was so much simpler……back in then weight 

much simpler in a rag and tube, put fuel in and fly, don't worry about all that bullsh#t.

they make us do w& b sheets in flight training but i don't plan on carrying passengers or driving anything bigger than a c150.

 

[jackc]

Just now, BrendAn said:

much simpler in a rag and tube, put fuel in and fly, don't worry about all that bullsh#t.

they make us do w& b sheets in flight training but i don't plan on carrying passengers or driving anything bigger than a c150.

 

FAA FAR Part 103 even easier 🤩

[Area-51]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

much simpler in a rag and tube, put fuel in and fly, don't worry about all that bullsh#t.

they make us do w& b sheets in flight training but i don't plan on carrying passengers or driving anything bigger than a c150.

 

This is not true, a C180 will fly with any load as long as the doors can close shut and the pilot has a pulse; just push the throttle forward and go! If it crashes the news reporters will at least correctly report the aircraft as a Cessna 🤷🏽‍♂️

[Ian]

Here's a metric to pounds goof. Flying 14 tons overweight.

https://www.ntsb.gov/legal/alj/OnODocuments/Aviation/4510.pdf

 

Also summary of annex 5 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. So metric is coming 😉

####

Many attempts to improve the level of standardization were made in the following years and a number of amendments
to Annex 5 were introduced. By 1961 the number of tables of units in the Annex had been reduced to two, which
remained until Amendment 13 was adopted in March 1979. Amendment 13 extended considerably the scope of ICAO's
role in standardizing units of measurements to cover all aspects of air and ground operations and not just air-ground
communications. It also introduced the International System of Units, known as SI from the "Système International
d’Unités", as the basic standardized system to be used in civil aviation.
In addition to the SI units the amendment recognized a number of non-SI units which may be used permanently in
conjunction with SI units in aviation. These include the litre, the degree Celsius, the degree for measuring plane angle,
etc. The amendment also recognized, as do the relevant ICAO Assembly Resolutions, that there are some non-SI units
which have a special place in aviation and which will have to be retained, at least temporarily. These are the nautical
mile and the knot, as well as the foot when it is used in the measurement of altitude, elevation or height only. Some
practical problems arise in the termination of the use of these units and it has not yet been possible to fix a termination
date.

####

 

[Garfly]

Regarding units, I appreciate the 250k Topo charts, available in OzRwys, for the extra detail

and clearer depiction of where flatlands lie. But care is needed since it ain't an aviation map.

 

 

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, Garfly said:

Regarding units, I appreciate the 250k Topo charts, available in OzRwys, for the extra detail

and clearer depiction of where flatlands lie. But care is needed since it ain't an aviation map.

 

 

The bottom Map would be good if you were cutting a drain.

The Ozrunways map clearly works for a lot of people. That area is covered by the Armidale WAC Chart, and I haven't got one to compare but the colouring looks like the underlying map could be a WAC Chart.

 

What the WAC Chart has are Hypsometric Tints which show altitude in feet and metres.

If you find during your trip that cloud has decended above you like a ceiling, the tints give a quick reference for a way out to be planned. If the bottom of the scale isn't visible here you can scroll to bring up Sea Level. Don't be caught like me once when I was watching that celing very closely and realised I could see individual sticks under the gum trees because although the cloud was level, the land was rising, and the sea level blue is anything from ground to 600'.

 

 

[Garfly]

33 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

The bottom Map would be good if you were cutting a drain.

The Ozrunways map clearly works for a lot of people. That area is covered by the Armidale WAC Chart, and I haven't got one to compare but the colouring looks like the underlying map could be a WAC Chart.

 

 

The lower map is the 250k Topo which happens to be available in OzRwys along with all the aviation charts.

 

My point was about mixed units; that because the 250k is not an aviation map its elevations are in metres so care needs to be taken when using it for flying. I like that it's there even though I'd use it more for planning and checking out the route than in the air.  It has four times the resolution of a WAC - including a lot more place names - and shows clearly at a glance where the valleys and flatlands lie (white against brown).

 

Actually, I've also found it useful for backroads driving since it seems to have most small dirt roads on it and - since it's downloaded to the app already (and covers the whole country) - I don't need internet access to use it while bush bashing.