naremman

I can recall an instance when I was dirty on my instructor when he did not send me solo!! With all the confidence and brashness that only 18 year olds possess we had spent an hour doing circuits in perfect spring weather, not a breath of wind with the setting sun right behind us on final. With a grand total of just over six hours I was ready to have a crack on my own. I had a sense of dispointment when we shut the old 172 down with said instructor still sitting beside me. Our instructor visited Bruce Rock on a fortnightly basis, and two weeks following the conditions were not so benign. Middle of the afternoon and hotter. Wind shear at either end of the strip, turbulence in the circuit, windsock about halfway out and not pointing downthe runway by a fair bit. Two hours of ciruits where my learning curve sharply inclined. This time I was really happy to have my instructor sitting firmly alongside me. I was a lot wiser for the experience, and that high level of confidence that I possessed a fortnight earlier was diminshed by a fair bit. Next visit after 40 minutes of consolidation I was somewhat surprised when I was informed the next circuit was to be sans instructor. Alas, I remember it well, and my night solo, first aerobatic solo, Tiger Moth solo and Jabiru solo just as fondly. In an interesting aside, eight years later the same instructor and I were discussing my first wife's impending solo around six hours when she was learning on my Airtourer. Both the instructor and I agreed there was no reason to delay the solo if the conditions were favourable, but she delayed her own solo for another two hours as she "did not want to bring her husband's beloved Airtourer home in a wheelbarrow"!! I used the opportunity to discuss my own solo with my instructor, and mentioned that I had been disapointed when he hadn't sent me at the six hour level. "Yes, you probably would have been OK, but remember what happened two weeks later" he was quick to remind me!! 38 years on whether I soloed at six or nine hours matters little. I count myself fortunate to have had a sage and prudent instructor.

Thanks for the link David. Watched about five minutes before I thought I might have to find 84 minutes of sit down and watch it at some other time. In the survey I noticed that 4% of respondents had experienced a spin involuntarily. Sadly, there might have been some more numbers to expand on these numbers, but are not in a position to respond.

The precceding two posts contain bucketloads of collective wisdom, but would probably relate to an absolute minimum of conducted flights. Most flights would be conducted safely form 50' AGL over the threshold with 1.3 stall airspeed. That is a great standard to adhere to, and once a pilot cuts inside this a throrough knowledge of their own skills and capabilities, coupled with a familiarity of their aircraft is beneficial to achieving "old pilot" status. We have generally read this thread to produce "greaser landings". There are some instances where a good landing is one where the landing enables one to be stopped by the end of the runway. Short bush strips, Ag operations and PNG mountain flying focus more on nailing the threshold, with bugger all over the stall speed, than aiming for a greaser. I reckon there have been strips that the aircraft pictured for kiwicrusader would have operated from, that would have accumulated heaps of crumpled aluminium if the general flying populace been given access to it. With reference to TW aircraft. I have observed some C180s and Austers set up in the short field configuration hit solidly tail wheel first and the subsequent mainwheel rebound demonstration has been spectacular!! Without exception these pilots found the limits of the throttle stop in nanoseconds!!

You are the epitomy of an honest pilot Kaz. Most of us can put a succession of presentable landings together, then have a clanger that has us checking to see that we have not dislodged any teeth fillings!! My instructor gave me two pointers when I was learning; Firstly, "look at a duck or pelican landing and see if you can do the same". Secondly, "every flight should end in the perfect stall, three inches above the deck".

Kaz, if you have mastered that Auster that immediately puts you in the exalted category. It should be you telling us how to achieve terrific touchdowns!!

Now there is no point in trying to better that in the Pawnee Tomo!!

Good work Tomo. Your phone has excelled itself, firstly creating a record for yourself, and then for others to share. When I got my Night Rating I was in my early twenties with sparkling eyesight and actually preferred to land with the landing light off. Your eyes tend to follow the landing light, and depth perception is probably not so acute. Now that I am getting small change out of sixty, the eyesight is nowhere near as sharp as in my twenties, and I have come to terms with landing light on, reluctantly. Landing light or not is personal preference, and you get to call the shots. The old 1960's Cessnas actually had two lights in the leading edge of the wing, and it was said that they were far better than the single cowl mounted light. One advantage of the Warrior is that when you get to practice total electrical failure, as you will, at least you can still use flaps. Nothing like total darkness, only broken by the light from a torch which you attempt to position so there is not direct glare up onto the instruments, and the 172 means a flapless, nose high flare and runway eating excercise. The flare will be considerably longer than 4 seconds!! Keep up the good work Tomo. You are obviously enjoying the experience, and we are all following your exploits with keen interest.

Tomo, you are assuming Richard Bach like qualities. That enthusiasm needs to be bottled. Have you read Bach's "A Gift of Wings"? A great read if you can find a copy.

It might account for that missing uniform a long time ago in your career Nev!!

Sounds like you have had a thorough start Tomo. When I got my Night rating it was a called a Class 4 Instrument Rating, which was a bit of a misnomer as it was not an Instrument rating as such, but in order to fly at night you had to demonstrate proficiency on instruments. I did the initial circuit work in a C172, and then by virtue of seven months in the UK for a Young Farmer Exchange, was swung across onto a Warrior for my Navs. The Warior was far more stable than the Cessna, especially lateral stability, and visibility over the inboard wing in a turn is heaps better- great for that turn onto final. In an intersting irony the first 10 hours on a Warrior were all done at night and landings were fine, until I tried a few circuits in daytime and bounced the hell out of it. Difficult in a Warrior I know. Think I tried to land it like the Airtourer, and only an Airtourer lands like an Airtourer!! All your contemporary gadgetry will spoil you Tomo. I am sure Nev can be far more expansive than I on the rudimentary equipment that was used for night flights. Before vacuum pumps, venturis provided the suction for AH, DG and T&B, and it was a game of chicken on the take off run to uncage the AH just before take off speed and pray that it did not topple!! We also had to be able to recognise the Morse idents of NDBs, cos some of the ADFs were valve sets with manual tuning. The intoduction of the KR87 was manna from heaven with digital tuning. Tomo we all look forward to ongoing reports on you night training. We are sure your learning curve has just increased slightly. I keenly await the report of your first Nav West on a pitch black night. No doubt you will handle it well, but it will give you heaps to reflect on.

Agriculture induced debt and being a Volunteer Ambulance Officer with St John Ambulance have had a distinct influence on ink into the logbook. Hopefully a small lessening of the farm debt and a better balance on ambulance duties improves the flying time. As someone who learnt to fly in the first half of the 1970s there is a remarkable contrast to what we could access and achieve to the current situation. You could fly into a Primary like Perth with just your licence and a medical (before the days of A/BFR), no transponder, using ERSA and VTC that were provided for no cost, land and park for zippo, and walk out through the security gates with licence in your pocket and a casual wave!! And what do we need now? One of the owners of the C172 that I fly is a retired Engineer, and he purchased his share in the old Cessna and proceeded to learn to fly at Jandakot. It was interesting to observe his progress to GFPT, and quite frankly I marvelled at his determination to succeed. The flying component is manageable, but all the other aspects act as inertia and impediments to something that should really be reasonably straightforward. Learning to fly is challenging enough, learning in a Class D environment just increases the degree of difficulty. In the GAAP days pilots at least were given the independance of thought to get to the Holding Point and call "Ready". Whilst Jandakot has a high level of movements, the private component of the activity is significantly reduced, and are we surprised? When my daughter wanted to learn to fly she was going to head to Jandakot. I advocated that she learn RAA, and then swing back to GA if she wanted. She is now the proud possessor of a RAA Pilot Certificate. Thankfully Recreational Aviation has allowed pilots who just want to fly for the joy of flight some more straight forward, and affordable options. Long may it continue.

G'day David, Just shows how much variation of opinion can occur for the same airframe. The one configuration you don't want to experience with the Airtourer on approach is "low and slow". I have always set myself up on a higher approach profile, knowing that you can kick the height off. I operate mainly off either 500 or 400 metre strips where the margin of error is not high. Sideslip is integral in nailing the threshold. Never met Aub Coote, though his reputation within the Airtourer crowd is legendary. Did you encounter the pulled mixture, and keys into the ashtray forced landing routine? Hopefully you were not the bloke that Aub tried this with, only to find that there was no ashtray, and the keys disapeared into the instrument coaming!! Have met John Willis a couple of times, and he has gone out and given MOC a hug as one of the first Airtourers that he instructed on. Further to your post on sideslipping Cessnas. Ialso fly a C172M and never encountered a problem with up to 30 degrees flap. 40 degrees flap is enough to "brick it" anyway. Can remember on my first intructional night flying lesson in a C172, and on being told on final that I was too high on approach kicked in some sideslip. The reaction from the right hand seat convinced me that there was limited merit in trying that again!!

Happily, Nev. The Instructor with who succeeded in pounding the most into my flying skills was Doug Dawson when he was at Narrogin Flying Club. Doug succeeded John Douglas at Narrogin when John moved to RACWA. I have over 50 hours Dual logged with DB Dawson as he took me through PPL, Class 4 Instrument Rating, CSU, Tiger & Chippie endorsements. Doug commenced his flying career with learning to fly with ATC on C150s at Jandakot. He was then accepted into the Army and ended up at Pt Cook. In Army uniform on his first lessson on Winjeels the Instructor asked: "who taught you to fly son"? "ATC Sir". Went down really well. Pt Cook, thence to Amberley to fixed wing on C180s, before a tour of PNG on the C180, and then another tour of PNG with Porters. A tour of Vietnam in Porters, and then the lovely Mr Whitlam put a whole heap of Army personel into limbo. I encontered CFI Dawson when he was making the transition from Army pilot to civilian instructor. He did not make the transition easily, and for those who encountered him at this stage, we probably received a more military based training than civil. I can't say I enjoyed all of my training, but it took me a fair while before I fully appreciated how thoroughly we had been trained. "I'll make a pilot of you first, and a mate out of you later" was a comment that turned out to be remarkably accurate. Doug has impacted on many within the aviation community, from the humble PPL to blokes who are now piloting B747s worldwide, and importantly his RFDS contribution. 30,000 hours, of which 10,000 are instructional hours has an inevitable influence. Sadly we both experienced losing our first wives to breast cancer. I have been incredibly fortunate to have have flown with many exceptionly credentialed pilots and instructors. I have learnt from each and every experience. Following Bernie Saroff at ALAC, my two following Air Judges were Terry Hardy and Mary Walton. What a privilege to have that opportunity. I have no adverse opinion on Bernie Saroff. I fully respect his contribution as an instructor, his work within RFACA and promoting aviation within Australia. On embarking on a jouney thRough aviaition we can encounter some exceptional individuals. It has been my good fortune to meet what was probably more than my fair share. Am I fortunate. BLOOD OATH!!

Tomo, you have not indicated what type of aircraft of aircraft that you were considering, or what role or expectation you would have of it. Given that aircraft in both RAA and VH can come into contention for you, the possibilities open up. Had an interesting chat with my LAME at Northam Air Services, and a significant amount of their work involves mantaining station aircraft in the North West. He stated that a nember of station owners had looked for alternatives to the C150/172 workhorses. A number of possibilities had been tried, but he was seeing a trend back to the old Cessnas. His opinion was that it was a buyers market for the old Cessnas, and some very good buys were available were in the $30-50K range. The Cont 0/200A and 0/300s were mostly reliable units that usaully made overhaul times, and he could generally do a 100 hourly in quick time. When it comes to aviation related matters I generally advise any aspirant to empty everthing out of their wallet, and then take a good look at it. Then get used to this being normal!!

I had Bernie Saroff on the verge of scrubbing me out of the Spot Landing Competition of an Australian Light Aircraft Championship for a full sideslip of the Airtourer over the fence when a quartering tailwind sprung up. Bernie was far from amused and stated that I had operated the aircraft beyond its limits. Luckily the original Victa Operators Handbook cleared the Airtourer for sideslips with full flap up to 87KIAS. Bernie countered with the rules did not allow sideslips. Nope, sideslips with flap were a no no in the Forced Landing, but no such exclusion existed in the Spot Landing. "Did you feel that were unsafe when we landed Bernie" questions I. "Well no, it was done safely, but who taught you to do that"? replied Mr Saroff. Once I mentioned who my instructor was there was no further conversation, and after shut down Bernie got out wordlessly and stumped off to the next aircraft!!

Thats easy. Late 1980's when I had my two kids, then about 6 and 2, strapped in the right hand seat of the Airtourer and we were off on a local jaunt. It was a Spring day in the Central Wheatbelt in WA, with some broken Strato Cu around but heaps of sunshine streaming through the breaks, and there were rainbows everywhere. We spent 20 minutes chasing rainbows. Never caught one though. "There's one" would shout one the kids, stand the Airtourer on a wing and chase it until it proved too elusive. Nearly 25 years later, my now adult kids still laugh with the memory of that flight, and the delight and joy that was evident on their faces is very difficult for a father to ever forget.

If you walk into a bank and say that you want money for a private aircraft you are probably going to struggle Tomo. A business connection or draw down on a housing loan might help. I purchased my Airtourer in 1975 for $3500 through the farm, and it was great to get me to 500 hours PDQ, taught me heaps, and despite my ineptitude treated me kindly. It actually cost me less than a new Kingswood ute!! I had the intntion of keeping it for a few years and then moving on. I still have it 37 years later. Good luck exploring the possibilities Tomo.

WhenTiger Moths and flapless Austers were the contemporary aircraft slideslip was used to regulate the descent profile. With the introduction of the American lighties it went out of favour, with dire predictions of what loads were being imposed on the airframe. The Victa Airtourer provides the opportunity to really explore the boundaries of sideslip. The handling notes OK sideslip with full flap up to 87 KIAS. With a central fuel cell unporting is not an issue. The rudder and flaperon authority are substantial. I think it is possible to pass a brick going down!! In a glide approach you can just about lob it into a bucket. Peter Lloyd told me at a ALAC competition that they had to write the rules for the Forced Landing Competition to exclude Victas sideslipping, as they were creaming the event. My experience in the Foxbat and Jab favour the Foxbat for sideslipping. I kept on trying to boot more rudder into the J160 until I came to the realization that I was on the stop, and that was it.

Tomo, opening a thread like this is a bit like asking twenty Economists how do they view the current state of the economy. You will get 21 entirely different opinions. On one side of the coin acquiring a NVFR will equip you with many new skills, which will expand the flying horizons and are a benefit overall to all your flying. The obverse has many lethal possibilities. There are many good instructors in the avaition game, a few less in the very good category, and a handful that are considered oustanding. If you are going to do VFR don't do it with anybody less than one in the upper echelon category. My instructor was ex-Army, left me under no illusions on what we were embarking on, dented my pride and kicked my ego, before he considered I had a achieved a satisfactory skill level before he was prepared to book me a flight test. To the guys credit he also loved to mentor his students to achieve pretty high standards, and it took me a fair while to appreciate what he was able to accomplish with his students. I had the incredible good fortune to have John Marshall, the legendary Senior Examiner of Airman WA conduct my flight test in 1977, just a few weeks before he retired. "Relax young man, this is not a test, take me flying and convince me you are safe"!! We were only 20 minutes into what I anticipated what was a hour long flight test before John said: "take me home young man". I spent the the next few minutes doing a 180 back towards Perth and getting a clearance, all the while stewing over what I had stuffed up. Five minutes elapsed before John said: "you are safe, you now have a Class 4 Instrument Rating, Congratulations"!! Tomo you are astute to consider doing the bulk of your work in the boondocks. Until you are comfortable and competent in a "Black Hole" environment you are in skills deficit, with some very nasty possibilities. Some of my most memorable flights have been at night, an I really appreciate the broader perspective that flight at night achieves. I have always pondered: does the Lycoming really know when is tonking away at night?

I am often accused of providing too many bad puns, but could we retitle this thread: "How I met my Waterloo"!!?

The first reality is that in many cases the aircrafts fuel endurance far exceeds the pilots. 130 odd litres in a Jab 160 when it it is sipping 14 litres an hour means the Jab is probably going to win any endurance contest. There is no greater discomfort (well for blokes anyway) , than landing an aircraft after a four hour leg with legs crossed and invariably having to deal with a howling crosswind for good measure. Caiguna has always presented me with the greatest challege to urinary continence, and I have never landed there without a crosswind. It was always after a +240 min leg and there have been too many instances of an abreviated circuit, prompt landing and pull up, quick evacuation of the aircraft and an attempt to address the water deficiency of the Nullabor!! In the 1980 I did quite a bit of flying with a neighbor in his C180, and this guy wore an ostomy bag. Great bloke, but an absolute pain to fly with as bladder endurance was not an issue for him. His passengers could be busting, but "unless it starts dribbling from your ears I am not stopping" was his standard responce. The late Robin Miller tells some good stories, against both herself and her husband, Dr Harold Dicks, in her book "Sugar Bird Lady". In her instance she and Harold were ferrying two light aircraft back from Europe. In the leg Timor to Aus Robin was fighting the urge and thought she as destined to fail. After looking for options the best she could come up with was a full tin of peaches and an old fashioned can opener. The canopy of the aircraft prevented the contents of the tin going over the side, so it was open the tin, leaving some very jagged edges, consume enought of the contents to create space, remove enough clothing to expose nether regions, raise torso, position tin with sharp edges and hope that her aim was true, all while maintaining control of the aircraft complete with tropical turbulence.!!! For all this time Harold was sitting off her wingtip displaying evident hilarity. Harolds close encounter came when he chose to combine his medical knowlege, pilot skills and engineering background to be creative with a funnel and plastic tubing when he and Robin were going to ferry the first Beechcraft Duke for the WA RFDS from the States. The initial use went well until Harold went to detatch the funnel from his own plumbing and failed. More determined efforts were associated with increasing levels of pain. Robin was implored to reduce airspeed pronto and just above stall the suction yielded enough to achieve freedom. Apparently Harold was very wary of approaching his invention again!!

Tomo, Tomo, thou shalt write out a 100 times the following: "Hangars house aeroplanes, hangers keep clothes off the floor."

I have almost all of Neville Shute Norway's books sitting on the bookshelf, most of them collected from second hand bookshops when I was in the UK in 1976. Probably the best story is the life story of the author, contained within his autobiography in "Slide Rule". His professional life is fascinating, and to use his knowlege to incorporate themes into his writings gives some great perspectives. The novel I enjoyed the most was "Requiem for a Wren", which I recall first reading in the library at boarding school. Before the electronic era, those of us who had to find ways of whiling away the time on weekends whilst within the bounds of boarding school, often found our way to the library, and I was fortunate to access to a very good one. I still can't find a way to beat the joys that a book invariably gives. I find it interesting that Norway's last years were spent in Australia, where he owned and flew a Percival Proctor. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who could provide any information of his time here.

One of the joys of having a bit of acreage in the WA Wheatbelt is having your own airstrip/s. Adherance to CASAs CAAP 92.1 would be pretty sound reasoning for legal and insurance issues. Not much sense of paying premiums if the condition of your strip gives the insurance company an out. We won't open up the issue where lawyers are involved. (Sorry Kaz!!) After 37 yars flying from my strips I have became very familiar with them, but I don't agree readily to other pilots having access to them. If I know the pilots and their aircraft capabilities, it is generally not an issue, but given that the strips are not overly long, and slopes are involved, there is quite a potential for a situation to get pear shaped. The strip I use most is 1500' long with a three degree slope, and I have seen some experienced pilots get a bit ragged on that one. My Flying Instructor loved putting Commercial students in there in a C182 RG, and and had few who very firmly declined. Australia is quite fortunate that there are generally not too many impediments to avaition activities. When you hear of the disapearing small airfields in the UK we realize how fortunate we are. Putting SAFETY to the forefront in any issue dealing with airstrips is an imperative.

Navigating in the bush has never presented too many problems for me, but I have encountered more problems around built up areas like the cities. The Western Lane of Entry through Melbourne made me more nervous than any bush flying. A 1:250000 VTC probably contains too much information. I did some flying in the UK in the 70's and at times struggled. Their WAC equivalent uses 1:250000 and with villages three miles apart you went from one village to the next in under two minutes. It was easier to revert to a Motorways map and follow the bitumen!! Phil Butherway recalls some funny moments when he was Deputy CFI at the China Southern Flying School at Merredin teaching the Chinese students navigation. They had difficulty initially coming to grips with finding their way around the vastness of the Wheatbelt, and Phil recounts some instances of some of his students having absolutely no idea where they were while the Grob continued thumping away in an uncertain direction at 120 Knots. With most Aussie students you could get away with : "you're lost aren't cha", but to do so with a Chinese student would cause him to loose face, something to be generally avoided. Some astute origami with the WAC chart with the current position right in the middle normally restored the situation to normal!! Some of Phil's former students could well be on the flights that China Southern have just commenced into Perth.