naremman

Good outline of your vision Ian. Your competence in web development and refinement needs to be respected and affirmed. In my opinion, generally if your fingers are in your wallet to keep whatever machine you choose to remain aloft, its recreational. One of the strengths of this site is the diversity of backgrounds of those who choose to lurk, or even contribute. Just as it is great to observe the energy and enthusiasm of the latest converts. it is equally satisfying to see contributions from those who acquired skills and qualifications over many years. That you can have Tomo, comparatively young, and with his boundless joy in acquiring and developing his flying skills, and with Facthunter, mature, and with his extensive knowlege and sage advice, on the same site means the basics are not too bad Ian. Whilst I came with a GA background, I am also enjoying the RAA involvement too. My daughter has a RAA Pilot Certificate. I chuckle when I see my VH registered Airtourer have rings flown around it by RAA aircraft, most of them having less power!! Wishing you some good feedback to your expressed thoughts.

It is inevitable that Angel Flight will come under scrutiny, and that need not be seen in an adverse sense. There is no organization of merit that will not benefit from external objective assessement. As a Volunteer Ambulance Officer with St John Ambulance WA , I have observed the fair degree of scrutiny that was placed on that organization following the Four Corners program just over two years ago. What was a fundamentally sound organization, has taken the scrutiny, incurred a few bruises, but has grown and got its perpective more finely tuned through the process. I am confident that Angel Flight will have a not dissimilar experience. I am also an Angel Flight pilot, and was scheduled to conduct an Angel Flight from Jandakot to a WA Wheatbelt town last Friday. Weather was an issue to be considered, and AF had phoned me on the preceeding day stressing the need to make safety as an imperative, something I appreciated, in addition my intent to make it to be a very old pilot. What ocurred on the flight date was a succession of a number of quirks of fate. Our Cessna 172, which was to be used for the flight, is currently based at Jandakot where one of our co-owners is learning to fly. Prior to accepting the flight it been our intention to drive to Perth on the Saturday for my daughters birthday. I had amended the schedule to drive down on Friday, do the AF, stay at home and fly back to Jandakot on Saturday morning and be back on schedule. On the dawn of the flight I took a look outside, and thought it did not look pretty, though on downloading the Area 60 forecast a VFR flight would not be ruled out. I phoned the pilot who had to come out of Jandakot, and he had concerns with the weather at his end, and we agreed to make a decision in an hours time. An hour elapsed, no improvement in the weather at JT, but VFR possible at this end. That I could make the drive a few hours earlier with the Pt made the decision easy. Hit the road, and the two lots of rain we passed through on the way to Perth vindicated the decision. Pt made her appointment time and we kept the option of a flight home open. I was out at JT mid afternoon and had the C172 ready to go. There were cells of rain around, but in the main VFR flight was possible with caution. The Pts chemo ran later than anticipated, and last light was becoming an issue to contend with. I do have a NVFR rating, which is not current at the moment, which removed any flexibility that that rating would offer. I set a time for departure, which incorporated a 30 minute buffer as an allowance for weather realted diversions. Decision time arrived, decision made. Nett result: Pt transported safely and successfully, though not in the manner anticipated, and with bent backsides from 8 hours in the car. Angel Flight were most appreciative of the decions made on their behalf last Friday. I followed my instincts and experience gained over 38 years of flying in making my decisions, and whilst the Victorian incident did nothing to influence the decisions, I was was never the less mindful of the outcome. I am confident the vast majority of Angel Flight pilots would have done likewise. Got a lovely hug and kiss from the Pt when I delivered her home, and she is confidently looking to Angel Flight to transport for her next round of chemo. Can't say that I enjoyed the drive back to Perth next day for my daughters birthday!!

Faced this dilemma about twenty years ago when I was faced with agriculture imposed debt (again), wife diagnosed with breast cancer and two kids with boarding school looming, and somebody posed the question: "what happens if you go under a bus mate?' All the initial inquiries resulted in addittional premiums because of 50/60 hours a years private GA flying. A 30% loading on my premiums did not greatly appeal to the component of Scottish blood in my make up. Fortunately one of the reps with one of the mainstream companies that I was dealing with was a former CPL (helicopter), and suggested we started horse trading. I made a case that they were happy to insure me as a farmer, one of the more dangerous vocations around without loading the premium, not take exception to the 50/60000 Km that I was on the roads, mainly country with a fair bit of it on gravel roads, yet wanted to whack me for a modest amount of private flying. I also contended that having a regular medical was a positive, and the skills and discipline I had acquired through aviation had a beneficial influence on my farming and driving. A 3 month brawl ensued, with the net result of no extra premiums, but with me agreeing to forego the night flying and aerobatics side of flying, which was probably not unreasonable with the circumstances that I was facing. Twenty years down the track the insurance company has had premiums out of me every year without having to lay out a zac, though being in the second half of my fifties the premiums are starting to get a bit ugly. Still running with the agriculture imposed debt, sadly the first wife lost the battle with breast cancer, and happily, the kids got through boarding school and turned out to be reasonable human beings. What I learnt I suppose was to not accept the first offer and keep negotiating. Whilst some might see insurance premiums as lost money, there are times that accepting a payout means you are dealing with not a good outcome.

I happen to have the good fortune of having a copy of Cliff Tait's book: "Water Under My Wings". For those not familiar with Cliff, he successfully flew an Airtourer around the world in 1969, embarking on the jouney with around 200 hours total time. He was then subsequently employed to ferry NZ made Airtourers, CT4s and Fletcher ag aircraft to international destinations. Over half of his total time was over water, and he ended up with about 100 crossings of the Tasman Sea, all in single engine aircraft. Of the seven engine failures he experienced none ended up giving him wet feet. In Chapter 7 of his book, sub titled Survival, he thoroughly covers how he prepared for the possible ditching of a light aircraft, and it certainly is fascinating reading. "If the surface wind is not more than 20 knots the swell would be of prime consideration and one should avoid touching down of the face of the swell. Touchdown should either be on the back of a the swell or parrallel to it......... If the wind is over 20 knots the resulting reduction in ground speed may be more desirable and an into wind landing preferable." He ends the chapter with a quote from Shakespeare: "All things are ready if our minds be so". I can remember having a chat with Stan Tilley, the affable Taswegian, at one of the Airtourer Association gatherings and we were discussing our respective journies to the function. I mentioned to Stan that I would not be all that comfortable having to cross Bass Straight, and he was quick to counter that he would far rather cross Bass Straight than traverse the Nullabor!! At least Stan has crosssed the Nullabor, whilst I am yet to add a Bass Straight crossing to my flying experiences.

Always good to fully understand the layout of the fuel sysytem on any aircraft that you operate. Can remember many moons ago, not long after getting my PPL licence taking a PA-28 180 up to the Kimberlies. Refueled at Broome late in the afternoon and parked on uneven ground. Fuel selector placed in the OFF position. Next morning on pre flight noted one tank down just enought to cause concern. Felt like a bit of a ass asking the refueller to come out to refuel, which turned out to be a surprising 8 gallons. Ventured out to Fitzroy Crossing quite easily, stayed the night, and slogged back to Broome in late Wet conditions with multiple diversions. That 8 gallons meant the difference of me choosing where I landed, or having the decision made for me!! When I returned from my 30 hour sojourn it was an interesting debfief with my instructor. He had taught me many things. I had learnt heaps!! Moral of the story: Fly a Victa Airtourer. One tank, so no crossfeed problem, AND NEVER TURN THE FUEL SELECTOER OFF.

Wot, wot, wot, is this about giving acknowlegement to this bloke called Tomo? I ordered a pair two weeks ago in keen anticipation of doing a good amount of flying this weekend and wanted some headsets for the rear seats of the C172. I have had to resort to trolling around my cobweb woven drawers for supplies, and have even resorted to a 30 year old Telex headset, which surprisingly works well still, but not with a lot of noise dampening quality. Seriously Ian, good on you for selling out of your supplies, that is not a bad sign, we will keenly anticipate the new headsets in the mail, and maintain your pursuit of products that enhance our flying experiences.

Great footage, but hope it form the basis of what not to do in an RAA aircraft. When the RAAF took the CT4 on board it was not too long before a restriction on convential spinning came into effect. That restriction did not preclude inverted spinning, so guesss what happened?

Airframe is not always the determinate of Vne, sometimes the engine is the principal factor. Vne of the Victa Airtourer 100 is 175 knots, cos at that speed the tacho, even with the throttle closed is red line. Same airframe, the 150 Hp Airtourer with a CSU unit is 204 knots. Tiger Moth Vne 139nots. only achieved in the vertical down with full throttle. The then young instructor who taught my Dad to fly, who is now a Cathay B747 driver, always used to refer to Vne as: "very near the end"!!

Probably about a century too late for the town Black Rod, as Kookynie is one of the the many ghost towns that exist in the WA Goldfields. A good number of years ago I can remember aero clubs heading there for flying visits. I also recall the then CFI of the Kalgoorlie Boulder Aero Club who would do the odd charter to Kookynie for one of the many Goldfields characters, so he could have a weekend bender in glorious isolation. The strip must have been OK then as the charter used a Baron. Whilst the town may well be quiet now, there in no shortage of mining activity in the area

Has anybody checked out the Grand Hotel at Kookynie recently? Where is Kookynie you may well ask. North of Kalgoorlie. Our local GP has his parents from the UK visit him annually, and a few years ago we flew them to Leeuwin Estate Winery for lunch, which they throught was tops. The equivalent of Southampton to Paris for lunch!! Thought lunch at the Grand Hotel, and then down to afternoon tea at The Palace Hotel in Kalgoorlie might be appropriate for a very English couple, Certainly a contrast to Leeuwin!! Have enjoyed flying into Brown Bros twice. Just the place to stock up on emergency water for a cross Nullabor trip. Reason that if we have to wait for a rescue we may as well enjoy it, and after successfully negotiating the Nullabor without the need to resort to emergency water, we had the bonus of enjoying some of Milawa's best.

As an Angel Flight pilot and Volunteer Ambulance Officer with St John Ambulance WA living in the bush, I view this as an incredibly sad set of circumstances, alround. I have seen first hand the benefits of Angel Flight, and to have completed 11000 incident free missions up to this point is testimony to the emphasis on safety that Angel Flight has always operated with. Angel Flight comes with bucket loads of commom sense, and we all know how rare that commodity is these days. It is inevitable that Angel Flight will come under scrutiny. The contribution that Angel Flight has made to those living outside the major cities must never be understated. The stark reality is that most medical specialities reside in the major cities. If you are are in the bush and you require these services, no question, you travel, by whatever means. What contribution has Angel Flight made to those 11000 patients, and their families, to convey stressed and tired people who would otherwise be on the road, or dependant on public transport, should it exist in the bush? Last week I had a very good friend in my country town who is undergoing chemotherapy in Perth travel both ways with Angel Flight for treatment. In the West we are having a winter that by memory we would consider normal, but we have not seen too many of them over the the past decade. On the day of the outgoing flight, when the fronts came through even the ducks were walking, and we are are in open wheatbelt country. The AF pilot drew on many years of experience and managed to safely land here, just before we got another healthy addittion to the raingauge. A good number of cups of tea later, and a call to muggins for a locals perspective, he was able to safely deliver his passenger to Jandakot, complete with many diversions and slogging into a 30 knot headwind. A whole day tied up to deliver one passenger safely. With the great support that Angel Flight now receives, at the least the fuel used on the trips is covered. Bruce you typify all that Angel Flight stands for, and the great thing for Angel Flight is, that you have many mates. There will be many processes that will have to be worked through following this tragic accident, as is appropriate. Bill Bristow, stand by the vision that you had in 2003. Nobody in the health field sets out to do further harm to a patient, but in this undeniably sad time, keep your perspective, and don't loose sight of what has been achieved thus far.

Learning to fly in a two seater with an instructor is onboard usually means that MTOW in not too far away. Remember when the instructor jumped out and all of a sudden you were in charge of a far more lively performer? In the GA environment pilots learning in a C172 or Warrior with half tanks will invariably get a hell of a surprise when they try a Full Load check. Yes, it is the same aircraft that you trained in. There is no better demonstration of the effect of weight than in formation flight. Many moons ago I trained for my formation endorsement at Northam with a friend who had a Jodel DR 1050 Sky King. My Victa Airtourer 100 and the Jodel were well matched at the same load, but a variation of as little as 50lbs gave the lighter aircraft a noticeable advantage. Before we went for a training run we used to scout through the aero club trying to con onboard the most likely person that would even our weight out!! On this site you oft see quoted: "Don't take an aeroplane anywhere that you mind did not visit five minutes ago". Rolling onto final all the variables for the landing should already be factored in. Reacting to surprises on final does not always produce sound results!!

Good to see one airworthy example still flying and working. Not a bad problem to have when you have paddocks too wet and you have to call in the Aggies Powerin. It has finally got around to raining over here in the West this year and last week had an Agwagon flying off my all weather strip spreading urea for a neighbour. I recall flying into Northam in the 80's and an Airtruck and an Army GAF Nomad were parked together. Parking my Victa Airtourer alongside them presented the trifecta of Australian designed and built aircraft from the 60's and 70's. Aesthetics were hardly the strong point of all three designs, and all three aircraft had the capacity to have some pilots to swear by them, and then the others to swear at them!! For such an aviation friendly country what a pity it is that Australia is so notable for not developing a vibrant aviaition industry. On the topic of unusual Ag aircraft, when I was learning to fly in the early 70's I shared the airspace around Bruce Rock with: [ATTACH=full]14757[/ATTACH] What a sacrilege to a perfectly good Chippie. The addittion of pump and spray booms did nothing to enhance things, and the margin of safety was probably scant. It was flown by an ex RAAF pilot John Turner who had to make the transition from Sabres to dodging trees and slipping under power lines in the old Chippie. It was a bit of a love/hate relationship between aircraft and pilot, and after a few years John outlasted the old girl and graduated to a Pawnee. In the 70's the only chemical that was sprayed out in volume was 24-D Ester, which went out at the rate of 4 ounces an acre. The hopper of the Chippie was not large, but a little bit of Ester went a long way. Luckily it was before the advent of Lupins and Canola, which will curl up and die at the slightest waft of Ester. In the days before GPS marking, there was a human marker at either end of the paddock with a flag, who just before the aircraft passed by paced out the swath width, waited for the pilot to survive the proceedure turn, raised his flag, and at the last second hopefully repositioned himself before the aircraft and sprayed chemical caught him. OSH? Whats that!! I notice that BCA is still on the register, so it is good to think that it survived the harsh environs of aerial agriculture. I am sure Poteroo will make a significant contribution to this post, and I look forward to his pearls of wisdom with keen anticipation.

Good to see one airworthy example still flying and working. Not a bad problem to have when you have paddocks too wet and you have to call in the Aggies Powerin. It has finally got around to raining over here in the West this year and last week had an Agwagon flying off my all weather strip spreading urea for a neighbour. I recall flying into Northam in the 80's and an Airtruck and an Army GAF Nomad were parked together. Parking my Victa Airtourer alongside them presented the trifecta of Australian designed and built aircraft from the 60's and 70's. Aesthetics were hardly the strong point of all three designs, and all three aircraft had the capacity to have some pilots to swear by them, and then the others to swear at them!! For such an aviation friendly country what a pity it is that Australia is so notable for not developing a vibrant aviaition industry. On the topic of unusual Ag aircraft, when I was learning to fly in the early 70's I shared the airspace around Bruce Rock with: What a sacrilege to a perfectly good Chippie. The addittion of pump and spray booms did nothing to enhance things, and the margin of safety was probably scant. It was flown by an ex RAAF pilot John Turner who had to make the transition from Sabres to dodging trees and slipping under power lines in the old Chippie. It was a bit of a love/hate relationship between aircraft and pilot, and after a few years John outlasted the old girl and graduated to a Pawnee. In the 70's the only chemical that was sprayed out in volume was 24-D Ester, which went out at the rate of 4 ounces an acre. The hopper of the Chippie was not large, but a little bit of Ester went a long way. Luckily it was before the advent of Lupins and Canola, which will curl up and die at the slightest waft of Ester. In the days before GPS marking, there was a human marker at either end of the paddock with a flag, who just before the aircraft passed by paced out the swath width, waited for the pilot to survive the proceedure turn, raised his flag, and at the last second hopefully repositioned himself before the aircraft and sprayed chemical caught him. OSH? Whats that!! I notice that BCA is still on the register, so it is good to think that it survived the harsh environs of aerial agriculture. I am sure Poteroo will make a significant contribution to this post, and I look forward to his pearls of wisdom with keen anticipation.

naremman Very pertinent comments. When Henry Millicer designed the Airtourer it was modelled around the 100 hp variant. He also used the rubber fuel cell that was in use with the Jindivik drone, and obligingly placed between the two spars in the fuselage. There are many positives with this design feature. Not too many Airtourers have burnt post bingles (Cliff Tait's being an interesting variant), but sitting on up to 28.7 gallons of avgas is initially unsettling. Determining just how much fuel is on board the old girl has been a perenial problem for any Airtourer pilot. Full Tanks, no issue. Any less would be a challenge for Sherlock Holmes! You can not visually assess fuel quantity. The fuel gauge originally fitted probably lead to the adage of: "never trust a fuel gauge". The dipstick might give an accurate reading when all the planets are lined up. Uneven ground, wrong angle of the dangle and evaporation on a hot day all conspire for the prospective Airtourer pilot to not be entirely certain how much gas is on board. Given the aerobatic capability of the Aitrourer, it has been used estensively in this role over many years. Fine airframe for aeros, but universally recognised as being horsepower challenged!! They reckon 150 hp is a bit short, but obviosly have not tried 100 hp!! Not too many pilots take an Airtourer up for aeros with a full tank. With two up 70 litres is about max anyway. Good design leaves only 0.3 of a gallon of unuseable fuel, but nose high atiitude or rapid accelleration is probably going to put low quatitiies of fuel at a point adjacent to the fuel pickup. Both fuel pumps are above the level of the fuel tank so you need at least one, preferably both working well to create noise up front. It was sad to see MTC in such poor shape. It was the first 150 hp conversion done in Australia by Brain Davies at Jandakot in the early 70's. By the same token it took one hell of a hit, and still maintained enough structural integrity for the pilot to slide the canopy back and walk away. I am sure Henry would have walked out of the the great hangar in the sky, and smiled!

naremman Have just recently completed a PPL AFR, in conjuction with a GA to RAA transition to achieve a RAA Pilot Certificate. Phil Butherway was the gentleman that made this possible, and holds GA/RAA Instructor ratings. A bit rare to kill two birds with one stone in aviation

naremman Great footage. As much a demonstration of what not to do as it is by showing some elements of flight most pilots don't visit. Interesting flick roll. Look for the strong lead in full rudder followed by full up application of elevator. The fact that it was unstable after completing 360 degrees of roll shows how close to the edge that it was. If it was a test of the structural integrity of the rudder and elevator it think it just passed!! The images of the spin should form the basis of an instructional video. It took the best part of a full rotation to stabilize nose down, two rotations stabilized and crisp recovery. Great demonstration of the classic stall too. If I had been a spectator on the ground I think I would have had my heart in my mouth. Probably rates in the same category of the first Boeing 707 being barrel rolled.

naremman Very early on in my in my training my instructor introduced me to old adage of: "there are only two types of pilots. Those who have, and those who are about to". This video is graphic evidence of two pilots making the transition!

Yikes motzartmerv. Nobody achieving a GA to RAA transition in sub 10 hours? I have just been down that path with Phil Butherway, who is based at Beverly in WA and has joint GA/RAA Instructor ratings. I had nailed the J160 to Phil's satisfaction inside 3 hours, and completed the 5 hour requirement in a Foxbat to provide a contrast. I must admit having a good amount of Victa Airtourer time was a decided advantage. It would also be appropriate to give Phil the highest acknowlegment possible for his great work in the process. My daughter has just learn to fly RAA on a J160, and will at some stage be looking at making the RAA/GA transition in our Cessna 172. I will be fascinated to observe her progress, but will be stongly advocating that she talks to Phil very early on. The principle focus should always be that we aim to achieve a flying standard so that we can operate an aircraft safely. Hours are ostensibly irrelevant

Glen. Given your CFI role what is the range of hours your students have taken, and around what would be the average? Does learning in summer or winter make any difference?

naremman Two litre plastic ice cream container, c/w lid is good. As a vollie ambulance officer with St John Ambulance WA, as well as RFDS, we use the famous "chunder tube", which is a long plastic tube with solid plastic top collar which can seal contents. Brilliant. But don't know the supply source. In 37 years of flying I have only has two passengers recycle lunch, which I suppose purs me at the better end of the spectrum.

naremman Hope your lessons on spinning really expand your flying knowledge. It really is a sound investment. In one of your earlier posts it sounded as if the cost for the Tiger Moth was a bit daunting. If you are looking for a definitive demonstation of the stall/spin characteristics an hour with Trevor Jones in the Tiger would be worth multiple hours in a C152. Some time in a Tiger allows one to appreciate its strong points, as well as demonstrating just how far we have moved on from operating an open cockpit aircraft from all over grass airfields and getting a majestic 75 knots from a rattling 130 hp up front!!

Welcome to aviation. Hope you are finding that life now has a new dimension. Great to learn with your husband. My late first wife also gained her PPL and we shared many aviation adventures, meeting many new friends, seeing new sights, and sometimes ending up in places that we never intented to visit (usually weather related, not navigational misadventure). I have just gained RAA pilot certification after 37 years GA experience, and was quite impressed with the Jab 160 as a training aircraft. My daughter has learned to fly on a Jab 160 and I thought it was a good idea to gain RAA certification so that we might fly together. I hope that the Skippy username is not applicable to your landings!!. May they all be greasers.

Hope you enjoy your aeros in the old Airtourer Pete. I am a long time Airtourer owner and have always enjoyed the control responsiveness, especially in aeros. How many horses up front? I have the 100 hp model which always proves a challenge in aeros as you are trading height for speed. Keep us posted on the progress.

As a GA pilot of 37 years and a recent convert to RAA I find this an interesting issue. In gaining endosements on a Jabiru and Foxbat I found the stalls and stall in a turn rather indistinct. Only the Foxbat with flap and power on demonstrated a well defined nose drop on the stall. My instructor, a mature gentleman, with loads of GA & RAA instructional time intoned a "I would rather we didn't" when I mentioned incipients spins. From my observations both aircaft if operated within sensible limits are unlikely to spring any unexpected, or hairy moments. I was fortunate to gain an aerobatic endorsement with John Douglas at the WA Royals just as I gained my unrestricted licence and purchased an Airtourer 100. I have enjoyed many hours of aeros for pleasure, and the skills I have gained from aerobatics have certainly enhanced my overall flying. The Airtourer is a good airframe for aeros, but be mindful that the altimeter unwinds at a fast rate. The stall and incipient spin are straight out of the textbook, though the spin is a bit unique to the Airtourer, and the transition into the spin can be lively with unusual audio effects. I would rate the Tiger Moth as displaying the classic stall & spin characteristics of the aircraft that I have flown. The spin in a Chippie is a great example of a stabilised spin, but I remember that it takes a fair bit to get it stabilised, and then unstuck and a whole lot of vertical airspace has been chewed up. The principle benefit of advanced stall/spin and aerobatic training is to recognise the onset of airflow distress and rectify the situation. In the event that it does go pear shaped sound recovery skills are a decided benefit. Most aircraft flying today are inherantly stable, which is great for every day flying, but if that airframe "lets go" that stability might not be your friend. If a reality check is needed look up some of the accidents incurred by Cessna 150s in mustering operations. Some images of the venerable old 150s "candled" into the deck are most sobering. The previous posts advocating training for aerobatics in GA are prudent advise. Find a good instructor in the appropriate aircraft, and whilst the bill might give you a fright, it could well be a sound investment. On another note. I put jabiru into the search function of You Tube and got directed to footage of a Jabiru doing a loop. My comments are probably not printable. Mate, you did RAAs cause no good, and hope like hell that I never fly an aircraft following your use. Maybe you could go to Bundaberg and offer your services for the destructive analysis of Jab aircraft!!