naremman

Not only an agriculturist Turbz, but an ancient one as well!! We still have an Oliver 88 running on the farm, but I try and blank my memories of driving the damn thing. A petrol only proposition these days.

For PFL training, I do take it down to 'over-the-fence' level, but only because I know the paddocks, and I am (very) low level qualified. You need a warmed, and responsive, engine to do this. Gee Ralph, you have just set my mind at rest seeing tomorrow morning I am fronting up for a AFR with you. Hopefully, happy days tomorrow!

C'mon guys, were none of you alive in the 1970's or have your memories slipped? Jonathon Livingston Seagul with Neil Diamond in the ascendant, and with abundant decibels. TAA's "Come Fly With Me". That brilliant BBC doco on the the HMS Ark Royal with that gravel voiced Rod Stewart belting out "I am Sailing". "Leaving on a Jet Plane" was not a bad earner for John Denver. When Cole Porter intoned: "I get no kick in a plane Flying with some gal in the sky Is my idea of nothing to do" One wonders whether he had really been flying at all!! Lryicists have made a good deal out of flying.

How are ya gunna hope with all the withdrawal symptoms OME?. Look forward to all you stored up pearls of wisdom in a fortnight!

HH. You need to read Robyn Miller's account in "Sugar Bird Lady", of when she and Dr Harold Dicks ( I kid you not, and they were married) were ferrying the first Beechcraft Duke back from the USA for RFDS WA operations. Harold, after relief was achieved, realized that such aperatus had a firm hold on a sensitive part of the the anatomy. The PIC was quickly implored to suddenly reduce airspeed, and only after approaching the stall was said sensitive part of the anotomy being able to be stored inside trousers. Harold had to wait a few years to effect revenge on Robyn, but that is another story. "Sugar Bird Lady" is a great read, and only a bit over a generation past where we are at the moment.

Great advice OME. We operate a 38 year old C172, and for the past decade have made a practice of lubricaticating the aileron cables and pulleys with generous lashings of ACF 50. I don't think there are too many aircraft that will ever drown from a surfeit of ACF 50, though it does have the disadvantage in a dusty environment in attracting nearly every dust particle. There are some advantages of aircraft that rely me on torque tubes rather than cables!!

Preferably before they realize that application of flap, and vaying power settings can have an influence on attitude as well!!

G'day Richard. Will be up in the Kimberley next month, but at the other end in Kununurra. Have got two weeks at the Sub Centre with St John Ambulance as a vollie Advanced Ambulance Care Officer. I have not ventured beyond Fitzroy Crossing, so am looking forward to some new experiences, though hopefully the ambulance ones are at the mundane end of the scale!! Have happy memories flying through Broome in 1976 when it had a permanent population of 1500, and if you wanted a drink you could chance your luck and try the Roebuck, or if you wanted to go a bit up market give the Conti a go . I have heard that things have changed a bit since then. If you statrt a flight in Broome I imagine you would be happy to have the 160 Kts cruise that the Bonanza gives. What do you have to pay to put a litre of Avgas into her?

No, no. no. Not this old hoary chestnut again!! Remember when the opposing protagonists were attempting to beat themselves into a pulp per medium of the AOPA magazine about a decade ago. Did any consensus emerge? I have no desire to buy into this one. From my observations I have taken note that when observing the Ag pilots at work, the turns with downwind usually have a bit of airspeed on board, and at the end of the sequence when airspeed has been washed off is it co-incidence that they are then working back into wind? Though these days with GPS marking the Aggies peeling off proceedure turns have just about vanished. Poteroo, what sayeth thou? Whilst most discussion on this topic is on the effect of wind in the horizontal plane, aerobatic pilots contend with it in the vertical plane. A loop into wind, especially in a lower powered aircraft or glider, benefits by rounding out the top of the loop. One learns very quickly that a half roll off the top is far more easily performed when you commence the half loop downwind. Now that I have chucked in some tuppeny thoughts I shall retire, and keep my head down!!

Could well have some benefits all round, but might present some problems for Oz if the iron ore, gold and gas remain firmly in their current locations and don't come along for the ride! With over 20 Nullabor crossing I am familiar with the backside bending process, but have also had experienced some incredible sights, met some great characters, and fortunately never encountered difficulties between Kal and Ceduna. Be careful for what you wish for Louis. The the range detemined by the fuel tankage of the Auster Arrow means we could end up with a country the size of Belgium!! It would be great to see you and some of our Eastern States cousins over here. You might have to round up Tomo and that C206 to experience our hospitality.

That is another aspect that has passed without commentary Turbz. A steady, consistent crosswind, evenly blowing over an open space is one thing, mechanical turbulence created by timber, buildings or terrain just makes it a bit more difficult proposition. Our town strip is a beauty. Trees on both sides, a one degree overall slope and a crosstrip that funnels the prevailing summer breeze to exactly the point where you flare for the preferred runway. We have about 30 RFDS flights a year come through and I have even seen RFDS pilots in PC-12s caught out. Coupled with with some lusty wind shears at either end it is not a strip you ever treat lightly. I always enjoy observing operations at Northam, just east of Perth, and the challenges that it presents. Jandakot based pilots who are having an initial introduction to a country airstrip find that this one is not always that welcoming, not that it is a bad strip, just a bit different. Just when we think we have this flying lurk licked, there is always something around the corner to remind us how tenuous our mastery of this skill is!

This thread, together with one other discussion on the site prompted me to reach for my copy of Cliff Tait's "Water Under my Wings". This is a veritable treasure trove for flying skills, honed by many years of delivering single engined aircraft from New Zealand, that includes in excess of 100 Tasman Sea crossings, all before the GPS. Cliff devotes a whole chapter to weather. One gem that I picked up was a simple means of calculating crosswind components mentally: If the wind is 30 degrees from the centreline you have 90% of the wind strength as a headwind component, and the crosswind component will be 50% of the wind strength. 45 degrees will be 70% for headwind, and the crosswind will be 70% of the wind strength. 60 degress from the centreline will be 50% of the wind for the headwind component, and start loading the rudder up cos you will be getting 90% of the wind strength as a crosswind. A fair number of us operate from uncontrolled airstrips where it is up to us determine the wind conditions from windsocks, windmills, trees, dust, smoke etc. Just how accurately do we process this information when we overfly an airstrip and apply it to our approach and landing? I found the following par in Cliff's book: "Generally rough weather is nothing to fear............ Pilot incapacity, not aircraft inability determine the outcome of most weather-related accidents."

About 30 years the inaugural Treasurer of the Airtourer Association took a lap around Oz on a working holiday that spanned a few years. Bill flew the Airtourer and Yvonne followed up with the car and caravan. If ever there was an award for "Flying Wife of the Century" Yvonne Kelly would have been a well credentialed contender!!

My late first wife not only loved the flying, but particularly the people we met through flying and the places we visited, some planned and some by circumstance. Traversing Australia by light aircraft gives an unique perspective to this marvellous country. My wife achieved her RPPL, and when we flew I always navigated, reasoning that it was probably one of the few opportunities for me to "tell her where to go"!! She was a journalist and always enjoyed being able to convey her experience to a broarder audience. Sadly breast cancer closed both the log book and her life far too early. My wife is not averse to flying, but motion sickness can potentially detract from fully enjoying it. A number of years ago she did quite a bit of flying in light aircraft in the Kimberley region when she was a teacher with the Kimberley School of the Air, but says that she probably did not fully appreciate the experiences at the time. She has shared three crossings of the Nullabor with me, but is not a keen participant in parking a backside in an aircraft for the best part of the day. I have encouraged her to keep the aircraft S&L in cruise but after five minutes implores me to resume control. She is supportive of me maintaining my interest in flying, knowing that in my case "altitude affects attitude". Should we get to be grey nomads I have stated that if possible, there will be two laps around the continent, one in an aircraft and the second towing a caravan/camper. I am yet to be contradicted, but the order could be interesting.

Nunans, you raise many valid points in your post, but in general place the issue at the extreme end of aircaft operations. Not every pilot is comfortable being that close to the edge. xx Knots demonstrated by a TEST PILOT is an area the average pilot is ever going to approach. The original Handling Notes for the Airtourer that Victa posted, and the original DCA Flight Manual for the Airtourer, stated 20 Knots demonstrated and there are a number of pilots, myself, included (and at night for good measure), who would include safe operations (ie no accident) at excess 20 Knots. The current AFM for the Airtourer clearly states no operations beyond 20 Knots. Should I bingle my Airtourer tomorrow in crosswind conditions the regulator and insurance company will have a singular focus, rather than any any historical perspective. The post by Kaz is notable. The landing/ take off phase may well be not the most hazardous phase of the flight. Taxying in extreme wind conditions may well place us at our most vulnerable. A take off with a 45 degree crosswind exposes the aircraft at less risk than the taxi when the aircraft is at 90 degress to the wind, or in a downwind scenario when the the wind is determined to invert thee.

G'day Sally, Thoroughly enjoyed the video, and very well captured indeed. Most of my aero experience has been in the Airtourer, which has many similarities with the aircraft that you are piloting. Noticed that when in the spin, when your hands went to the coaming, the lateral shots showed outspin aileron. Was this commanded, or no? Like the spin to the right, which I thought was a lot better defined. Great that you are able to share your experiences. Not too may pilots will encounter what you are doing, but any pilot who ventures into this aspect of aviation will never reflect adversely on the skills that they acquire through aerobatics.

Great decision making Sally, from the comfort of the ground. It is far better to make the decision on the ground than face a harsh reality at altitude. Fit for flying circuits, and fit for aeros are not the same. I recall a BFR with a very experienced instructor well versed in aeros which I was keenly anticipating, at the latent end of the cold and with some mild conjunctivitis courtesy of the kids. The rolls were fine but the only attempt at a loop had us seeking out lower altitude and some mundane circuit work. I don't know whether you imbide or not, but 8 hours between bottle and throttle might be lega,l but with aeros is not sound practice!!

The preceeding two posts come from two very experienced and respected instructors. Their posts give credence to that old adage: " there are no wrong actions, but certain different actions." As a comparative aviation layperson, one thing that I have observed in nearly 40 years of flying are that not all aircraft are not the same, and not all pilots are not created equal. With aircraft that I have experienced, should I turn up on any given day with a steady 15 Knot crosswind across the only available strip, I would leave the Tiger Moth in the hangar to fly another day, The Cessna 172 I would fly knowing that was the max crosswind allowable for the aircraft and would require a very good piloting standard of me for safe operation, and with the Airtourer I would say "what crosswind". I am sure we have flown with, or observed some pilots where their limits for comfortable and safe operations with crosswinds are inside the limits of the aircraft that they fly. A pilot who recognises their own limitations is probably a safer option than who does not. I have the utmost respect for instructors who are entrusted with equiping their students to steadily acquire the piloting skills, so that when they are deemed competent to be let loose on their own, will do so safely for themselves and those who fly with them. Once they leave the training environment the intstructor has no control of what aircraft they choose to pilot, or where they operate. I imagine they hope (or even pray) that no matter what they attempt they do not exceed their piloting skills! Crosswind operations are the one aspect of aviating where any skill deficiency will become readily apparent. The proximity of the ground only amplifies any shortfall.

Ya must be getting soft as you progressively loose some of that youth Tomo. Looks like perfect weather for a Drifter flight!! Did you remember that nosewheel on the 172? I bet the Skyhawk jumped off the deck in those conditions. Had a similar set of circumstances years ago in our 172 when we were planning Ararat back to the West on a very crisp August morning. Like you we were devoid of feeling in the fingers after a very short time. Luckily a bucket was at hand and tossing water over the aircraft loosened the ice a bit. A sheet of ice covering the tailplane was lifted off intact!! Like Nev, we had a bit of concern about attempting flight with ice, and despite the temptation to cut the job short stuck at it. Still rember the spectacular sights of the Grampians with that early winter light.

Kaz and Louis might need a pressure relief valve on their aortic arches!! Had a mate with a Auster J2 who sold his farm and relocated his Arrow to Jandakot in days before the parallel runway. On a Sunday afternoon ventured out to do a few circuits and was oblivious the the bedlam he created. The tower closed at 6pm, and a couple of the controllers had said Auster driver in the corner of the Royal Aero Club bar determinably establishing some mutaully agreeable rules for future operations. 45 Knot finals into the Fremantle Doctor were to be never repeated!!

With a GA background I encountered both aircraft in clocking up my 5 hours for a RAA Pilot Certificate. I enjoyed flying both, but there are some areas where one will excel over the other, and clearly identifying what particular role you want your aircraft to perform is very important in forming your preference. The issue of choice is yours, but sounding out other opinions is very sound, but not a guarantee that they suit your point of view. My perspective was that I favoured the Jabiru in the training role. The Foxbat is easier to fly, but I feel that most students who can fly the Jab proficiently will easily transition into another aircraft. If short/bush strips come into play the Foxbat is clearly ideal. A J170/Foxbat would be fairer comparison on this issue. For pure piloting indulgence the Foxbat heads the list. 40 Knots on final, solo, with good control authority is a great feel, but this is a capability that is not required all that often. As a cruising aircraft the J160 is going to take you further and faster. Two up, especially if the bodies are a bit solid, MAUW will probably mean you won't be at full tanks. Whilst the J160 looks diminutive I was surprised my 6' 1" 100 Kg creaky frame folded into it quite easily. There are Foxbats with a control yoke, and some with a central joystick. The ones with a joystick have the throttle lever positioned alongside the seat, and entry into this variant has to be very careful to avoid contact. Otherwise the roominess and visibility of the Foxbat is a big positive. One particular negative for me on the Foxbat is that infernal electric elevator trim. YUK!! It is only on the joystick models. The flap lever is not standard issue, but it is positive and you do get used to it. The J160 I flew has its original engine in it with 800 hours and had not missed a beat. I'll stay out of the engine issue. A lot of fun can be had in both aircraft. The ultimate choice is yours.

David, found the following quote atrributable to Richard Bach, which is probably more applicable to you than me: "We teach best what we most need to learn".