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so changing tanks error ? one tank selected and  one tank low, intermittent supply  during banking  manouvers ?

High wing. gravity feed... 

 

 

 

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Talking in general terms and not directly about this aircraft or incident.

Single fuel valve, dual tank aircraft have crashed in the past because once air is exposed to the fuel pump it will not "pick-up" from the other (full) tank.

I definately prefer selector valves for each tank.

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2 minutes ago, Downunder said:

Talking in general terms and not directly about this aircraft or incident.

Single fuel valve, dual tank aircraft have crashed in the past because once air is exposed to the fuel pump it will not "pick-up" from the other (full) tank.

I definately prefer selector valves for each tank.

That’s quite topical, DU. Early this morning I was low on fuel in my left wing tank (burning up the last of the AvGas so I could fill it with MoGas for an experiment). I was keeping an eye on the Mizer, ready to switch over to the other tank. It wasn’t the ideal location for this particular exercise, flying among some rugged peaks with plenty of turbulence.

 

Long ago while doing something similar I got a scare because it took far too long for the fuel to reach the engine after switching tanks. After that I installed a separate air vent in the small gravity tank downstream of the wing tanks. I now have more confidence in the system.

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19 minutes ago, Old Koreelah said:

Long ago while doing something similar I got a scare because it took far too long for the fuel to reach the engine after switching tanks.

I have trialled running one tank empty (I have dual tank/dual valve setup) and it was only AFTER the valve on the empty tank was closed it pulled from the other, open tank.

Note: high wing aircraft and no electric pump. Just the Rotax mechanical.

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Yes they do well ln the installs I have seen do..the IS engines seem to issues with plugs etc from the couple at our airfield. They have had issues luckily on the ground where they dont start..turned out to be a lot of the internal plug connections from what I have been told

 

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On 29/11/2020 at 4:12 PM, Thruster88 said:

According to RAAus this Brumby has a Rotax 912iS. That is a least 6 engine power loss incidents involving iS engines in 2020 that I am aware of. 

Wow. Does this mean CASA are going to do the same as they did to Jabiru a few years back?  
Somehow  I doubt it. 

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 29/11/2020 at 5:12 PM, Thruster88 said:

According to RAAus this Brumby has a Rotax 912iS. That is a least 6 engine power loss incidents involving iS engines in 2020 that I am aware of. 

Ok this failure is not related to the engine. The pilot just used to much top rudder, always better than to much bottom rudder.

 

 

DateLocationStateAircraftModelEngineModelSummary

26/11/2020Bugle RangesSABrumbyLSA R610Rotax912ISSTATUS: Under investigation EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: The aircraft had 55 litres in one ta... 

STATUS: Under investigation EXTRACT FROM REPORT SUBMISSION: The aircraft had 55 litres in one tank and nil in the other and both tanks are connected. The pilot had both tanks selected on. When the aircraft banked away from the empty fuel tank air was sucked into the fuel line and got a fuel pressure warning and the engine lost power. The aircraft landed in a paddock.

 

Accident and incident reports are only useful if we learn from them. I mean no disrespect to the pilot involved.  

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22 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

Ok this failure is not related to the engine. The pilot just used to much top rudder, always better than to much bottom rudder.

 

 

 When the aircraft banked away from the empty fuel tank air was sucked into the fuel line and got a fuel pressure warning and the engine lost power. The aircraft landed in a paddock.

 

There's much to be said for the small receiver tank some aircraft have in the fuselage, where fuel flows from the main tanks to the receiver, then on to the engine........

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My Jab has receiver tank, 5 litres. Isolates those moments nicely.

Indicator light on that tank going LOW is a good warning  !

Just another nice Jabiru airframe design feature. (disregarding the electronics for a moment !) 

 

Edited by RFguy
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Same with the Savannah: 6L plus warning light, gives you 20min to get your s**t together..........

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Again- this is useful because the receiver fuel level warning light it would tell you  what is about to happen - instead of you guessing and troubleshooting after the fact.

 

I think with the 5 litres, and light going at 3.5... in the 230 probably have 15 minutes at descent power...  

BUT you know what the problem is- you ran out of fuel ! 

That saved troubleshooting time would well be worth the preparation it would afford for the forced landing.

 

It would be fairly easy to do a better warning sensor to tell if the receiver tank wasnt full to the brim , and would buy another 5 minutes etc.maybe total 20 min in the J230...

Something I will do , the long list....

-Glen.

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9 hours ago, RFguy said:

Again- this is useful because the receiver fuel level warning light it would tell you  what is about to happen - instead of you guessing and troubleshooting after the fact.

 

I think with the 5 litres, and light going at 3.5... in the 230 probably have 15 minutes at descent power...  

BUT you know what the problem is- you ran out of fuel ! 

That saved troubleshooting time would well be worth the preparation it would afford for the forced landing.

 

It would be fairly easy to do a better warning sensor to tell if the receiver tank wasnt full to the brim , and would buy another 5 minutes etc.maybe total 20 min in the J230...

Something I will do , the long list....

-Glen.

The Savannah has a float operated reed switch in the top of the receiver tank, an indicator light at the RH instrument panel, and a test button.

 

I have duplicated the indicator at the LH with a large flashing LED (from RS Components).

 

It is important to know that the test button only tests the indicators, not the reed switch (and they can fail).

So I periodically test the entire circuit by starting and taxiing with all tanks valved off. My preflight checks always include a run through the fuel system, from level gauges through tank and isolator valves to fuel pump, so I am confident of being correctly valved on prior to takeoff.

 

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On 02/01/2021 at 4:42 PM, Thruster88 said:

Ok this failure is not related to the engine. The pilot just used to much top rudder, always better than to much bottom rudder.

 

 

 

I thought the idea was to fly balanced? 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 03/01/2021 at 8:07 AM, IBob said:

The Savannah has a float operated reed switch in the top of the receiver tank, an indicator light at the RH instrument panel, and a test button.

 

I have duplicated the indicator at the LH with a large flashing LED (from RS Components).

 

It is important to know that the test button only tests the indicators, not the reed switch (and they can fail).

So I periodically test the entire circuit by starting and taxiing with all tanks valved off. My preflight checks always include a run through the fuel system, from level gauges through tank and isolator valves to fuel pump, so I am confident of being correctly valved on prior to takeoff.

 

Further to the above, I just came across the part number for the large red flashing LEDs I used for my low fuel indicators. I have them on L and R of the panel (connected in parallel) and they work well.

For anyone who may be interested, they are RS Components, RS Stock No: 209-119

NZ$8 each

 

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