J160 Engine stopped in circuit

[poteroo]

Just a small question - I seek opinion as to how one should conduct 500ft circuits. I think gliding distance of the runway is always good especially if the surrounding landscape is made up to trees, a river and a few paddocks with power lines.

There are several ways to do this.

 

1. For an average performance RAAus aircraft where you are looking for the absolutely safest way: Climb upwind to 500agl, level and then make a 90 turn onto crosswind and fly a 'square' circuit with the runway at the same angle as if you were 1000 agl, then fly your base at 500ft and only reduce power for descent as you turn onto final - which will be at exactly the same point as you would from a higher circuit. This ensures you are nicely close in to the strip, avoids concerns with overly low level turns, and complies with all requirements as to where to begin final. It may require minor changes to your flaps deployment.

 

2. The other is actually the real low level circuit. You'll only learn these from a qualified low level instructor when you seek to upgrade your skills. It would be negligent of me to describe it on a forum.

 

happy days,

 

 

[motzartmerv]

There are several ways to do this. Climb upwind to 500agl, level and then make a 90 turn onto crosswind and fly a 'square' circuit

Its more of a rectangle..;)

 

 

[ayavner]

more of a trapezoid for me ...

 

 

[M61A1]

Is there some specific reason that the circuits have to be at 500ft ?If not then I would design them to be within gliding distance of the strip for the largest amount of time possible.

.

If you have a slow 95.10 (55kts or less in circuit) type like mine, you're supposed to fly a 500"agl circuit. It works for me, I do keep it in fairly tight though.

[Guernsey]

I used to do circuits as Poteroo describes all within the confines of the Parafield airport in SA in a Piper L4 Cub.

 

Those were the days.

 

Alan.

 

 

[facthunter]

Gets pretty tight if there is much of a headwind. You need a short base as well once the drift gets extreme.

 

Alan the Aztec could do a really tight circuit for the size thing it was as well. Cubs are beaut things everyone should have one. We should be able to build them in RAAus. Nev

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

I'm a big fan of the close circuit, especially in the Fisher Mk1 or Drifter, when I did my GA training a few years ago now ( 1986 ), my instructor had me fly close circuits with wing reference points and not ground turning points ( they won't be available at all airfields ), as I went onto twins and alike you need the space to stabilise the approach and set yourself up, but the aiming points were always there. I have found this works well for me, but I would agree with some previous comments, a student / low time pilot should be given a clear and consistent approach to every airfield ( using geographical reference points is not a good idea in my book ) but be taught to use the full list of tools available to make a successful landing. I fly at Aldinga in SA, there is an approach to RWY 14 that comes over about 300-500m of vineyard ( round posts connected with wire ), my base leg is high and about 50m from the threshold, I side slip almost all the way down and then stabilise and land. But the other runways are more standard. A pilot should have a wide array of skills avaiable and be able to make an approach to many different types of fields or landing areas in the event of an engine failure.

 

All the above is just my approach, I am not an instructor!

 

 

[planet47]

When I first got the slowsilver I experimented with 500ft circuits and one day I powered off at the same point I normally did when flying 1000ft circuits. Suffice to say I felt abit too low especially on the turn to final near the river. So now I use some reference points which are generally dependent on whether I am using the tarmac or the grass strip which are sometimes geographical but mostly associated with the slowsilver's abilities. I generally now fly my circuits using lift from thermals to assist in gaining height cause it would appear the max climb rate is 3-400ft a minute on a good day. The slowsilver has a 447 motor and it generally chortles along at about 50-55 mph (not knots - great viewing platform but one can't rush it along). It is very susceptible to wind, turbulence, lift and any other condition that might like to prevail. Having said all that I have often found that I obtain unintentional lift on base turning final on the grass strip (I am not alone in this feat) and I do have to use some of those skills to land it.

 

 

[M61A1]

When I first got the slowsilver I experimented with 500ft circuits and one day I powered off at the same point I normally did when flying 1000ft circuits. Suffice to say I felt abit too low especially on the turn to final near the river. So now I use some reference points which are generally dependent on whether I am using the tarmac or the grass strip which are sometimes geographical but mostly associated with the slowsilver's abilities. I generally now fly my circuits using lift from thermals to assist in gaining height cause it would appear the max climb rate is 3-400ft a minute on a good day. The slowsilver has a 447 motor and it generally chortles along at about 50-55 mph (not knots - great viewing platform but one can't rush it along). It is very susceptible to wind, turbulence, lift and any other condition that might like to prevail. Having said all that I have often found that I obtain unintentional lift on base turning final on the grass strip (I am not alone in this feat) and I do have to use some of those skills to land it.

If you are flying a 500' circuit, you shouldn't be flying the same ground track as you would on a 1000' circuit. If you are half the height (of the 1000' circuit), you should be half the distance away.

[turboplanner]

There is for certain ultralights at an airfield Gentreau

 

 

[Gentreau]

There is for certain ultralights at an airfield Gentreau

Huh ??

 

Quoi ??

 

.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Huh ??Quoi ??

.

Attached is Page 81 of the Visual Flight Guide - http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/pilots/download/vfr/vfrg1-high.pdf

 

It's at the bottom of the page.

 

You'll find more details in the CAR's on the CASA website

 

The three active circuit levels are one good reason for learning to fly very accurate ciruits.

 

 

 

[Gentreau]

Oh, you're replying to my question on the previous page asking why he wants to fly 500ft circuits !

 

I was hoping that planet47 would tell us why he wants to fly low circuits where the terrain is unsuitable.

 

That document doesn't really answer it for me, unless you are saying that they are obligatory.

 

If the terrain is unsuitable for low level circuits, why would you not fly higher ?

 

.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Just a small question - I seek opinion as to how one should conduct 500ft circuits. I think gliding distance of the runway is always good especially if the surrounding landscape is made up to trees, a river and a few paddocks with power lines.

half the height -half the distance, angles stay the same, hold some power in base turn whilst configuring the a/c. Thats what I would do...

 

 

[turboplanner]

Oh, you're replying to my question on the previous page asking why he wants to fly 500ft circuits !I was hoping that planet47 would tell us why he wants to fly low circuits where the terrain is unsuitable.

 

That document doesn't really answer it for me, unless you are saying that they are obligatory.

 

If the terrain is unsuitable for low level circuits, why would you not fly higher ?

 

.

You'll find more details in the CAR's on the CASA website.

 

Let's just say they are not for fun.

 

 

[planet47]

Oh, you're replying to my question on the previous page asking why he wants to fly 500ft circuits !

 

I was hoping that planet47 would tell us why he wants to fly low circuits where the terrain is unsuitable.

 

She (the pilot) doesn't necessarily want to fly 500ft circuits and I have flown 1000ft circuits in the the 'silver. The slowsilver's net weight is 126kg and its upper limit is around 250kg. It is extremly susceptible to getting blown around and unless you've flown one of these, I don't think you could understand just how susceptible it is. A 10 knot wind is about the upper limit. Yes indeed I have found it pays to keep a 500ft circuit tighter than a 1000ft circuit and there have been times that I found the lower circuit level to be less turbulent particularly when the wind is from the northwest.

 

Most of the land surrounding the tarmac and the grass strip is not necessarily conducive to emergency landings whether you fly 1000ft circuits or 500ft circuits. To the south is the river delta, bridges, an island dotted with power poles; not far to the east from the grass strip is a town area and dairy type farms and more power poles; to the north off the tarmac a few paddocks and then the trees start for probably about 7 miles; and to the west well that is just tiger country, with two small clearings, more power poles, a cemetery (and I don't feel like flying in there) and more waterways. I refuse to take off to the west cause there is no real option in the event of an emergency and I would probably end up parking it in the cemetery.

 

The slowsilver is in the experimental category. At last count I have done around 30 hours in this particular machine and have done around 240 hours all up. Thanks to M61A1 for the advice - it is appreciated +++.

 

 

[Gentreau]

Thanks planet47 and my apologies for the inaccurate personal pronouns, unfortunately your username didn't give me many clues. (Sorry, just noticed that gender is shown in the user profile, I'll check in future). Anyway,now you have explained the reason for your question, it is understandable, and I think that others have already answered it admirably.

 

 

[M61A1]

Oh, you're replying to my question on the previous page asking why he wants to fly 500ft circuits !I was hoping that planet47 would tell us why he wants to fly low circuits where the terrain is unsuitable.

 

She (the pilot) doesn't necessarily want to fly 500ft circuits and I have flown 1000ft circuits in the the 'silver. The slowsilver's net weight is 126kg and its upper limit is around 250kg. It is extremly susceptible to getting blown around and unless you've flown one of these, I don't think you could understand just how susceptible it is. A 10 knot wind is about the upper limit. Yes indeed I have found it pays to keep a 500ft circuit tighter than a 1000ft circuit and there have been times that I found the lower circuit level to be less turbulent particularly when the wind is from the northwest.

 

Most of the land surrounding the tarmac and the grass strip is not necessarily conducive to emergency landings whether you fly 1000ft circuits or 500ft circuits. To the south is the river delta, bridges, an island dotted with power poles; not far to the east from the grass strip is a town area and dairy type farms and more power poles; to the north off the tarmac a few paddocks and then the trees start for probably about 7 miles; and to the west well that is just tiger country, with two small clearings, more power poles, a cemetery (and I don't feel like flying in there) and more waterways. I refuse to take off to the west cause there is no real option in the event of an emergency and I would probably end up parking it in the cemetery.

 

The slowsilver is in the experimental category. At last count I have done around 30 hours in this particular machine and have done around 240 hours all up. Thanks to M61A1 for the advice - it is appreciated +++.

Yes, I think I understand where you are coming from. My little 95.10 weighs in around 180 kg and has a climb rate similar to yours. It feels like the turbulence assisted roll rate is abut 3 times faster than the aircraft's recovery. It's one of the reasons I prefer the 500' circuits, if I were to climb to 1000', I'd be a long way from my landing area. That said, I do have a lot of options at my strip, the only catch is that I've either got to stay in tight, or get further away because of a few tree'd areas.

 

 

[planet47]

I think it may pay to change the prop to the climbing prop at the moment too. Climb rate this morning was only around 100ft a minute because it was sooo hot. Long time to get to 500ft let alone thinking about 1000ft.

 

 

[rankamateur]

On downwind keep the runway halfway up the wing strut. This will keep you within gliding range.

Doesn't this depend a bit on how many cushion you sit on in the cockpit? At 6'3", other peoples description of their sight picture often doesn't help me much.

 

 

[Yenn]

How close are you in on downwind? Would you come into conflict with a GA plane doing a go around, possibly in a situation where he was very nose high with little forward vision. we hav a gyro pilot here who insists on close circuits, very hard to spot even if you hear him on the radio, because he is not where you expect him to be.

 

 

[planet47]

I don't know about others who do 500ft circuits but I try to remain conscious of the whereabouts of the position of any planes wherever I am flying and particularly in the circuit area. As well as avoiding conflict with others I am also trying to avoid conflict with wake turbulence.

 

 

[M61A1]

How close are you in on downwind? Would you come into conflict with a GA plane doing a go around, possibly in a situation where he was very nose high with little forward vision. we hav a gyro pilot here who insists on close circuits, very hard to spot even if you hear him on the radio, because he is not where you expect him to be.

They would need to be a long way from the centreline for there to be conflict. A tight circuit doesn't mean I fly down the edge of the strip. If you look at a 45deg angle up from the strip, I'd probably be in your line of sight.