Taking ya mate for a fly think twice

[Greg Spiers]

You are not in a mess Steve it's just another episode in life you have to deal with and you will deal with it no matter how big it seems at the moment. The fact that you are talking to people about it is the first step to recovery and there are, as evidence has shown in many of the replies you are getting, many of us who can and will help if we can. I discussed the two incidents above as a reminder of how ruthless things can get in the commercial world probably not so politically correct of me in your present state of mind but it is out there. We all suffer levels of sadness, upset, unfairness, disregard and any other adjective you want to throw at it but we can get through it. You are doing great and you will come through it and you will fly again. I lost my confidence for ten years over matters of my own making but am now back into it with renewed confidence. Good luck, listen to your true friends, you know who they are, keep ya chin up and fly on.

 

Bigglegreggles

 

 

[Aerochute Kev]

Insurance companies are in the business of making money. You pay a certain amount to cover the risk of something bad happening. If that event happens it has the potential to cost the insurance company a lot of money.

 

This may seen a silly question, but why are insurance companies not supplying the type of passenger waivers we need? You can bet if they did, it would be the best waiver to reduce the chances of them having to pay out.

 

With that said, why are RAAus's insurers not providing RAAus members with such a waiver?

 

Kev

 

 

[rocket1172]

If it was that easy for the insurance companies to send out waivers, I am sure they would. You can read this 2 ways. Either the waivers are worth two dollops of goat #%it, or there is enough collusion in the industry to make it fair game mongst themselves. Cause we are the only ones that lose. Never them!

 

 

[Marty_d]

Sad story Steve and I'm sorry to hear your mate didn't turn out to be much of a mate at all.

 

Jeez after reading this post I'm tempted to only put 1 seat in the 701.

 

Good luck with it all, hope it turns out well.

 

 

[rankamateur]

I am putting a spreader in the other seat of my Savannah, I think I will just loctite the bolts as I put it in!

 

 

[farri]

Guys, be very carefull with any insurance policies. Read them very carefully and also get a solicitor to read it.

 

I`ve said this before on this forum but I think it`s worth saying again....When I was instructing I had personal insurance cover for, pilot, passenger, aircraft and third party as well as the third party on the property.

 

I had read the policy thoroughly but hadn`t had a solicitor look at it. My understanding of the policy was that if the worse case scenario was to happen and I was killed, the payout would take care of everything.

 

Each time I had to renew the policy I was advised by the insurer to take out higher cover. The last time I renewed the policy some of the wording had changed so I decided to contact the insurence company to find out what the wording realy meant. I found out that had I been killed, there would have been no payout, because the policy only covered injury. This was not writen in any of the policy documents I had but apparently it was in the fine print of the documents they had.

 

I stoped paying insurance and stoped instructing.

 

Frank

 

 

[Teckair]

Insurance is a massive con and a real mugs game its all about giving money to pay for other peoples mistakes and keep people who do nothing employed.

 

 

[facthunter]

If you have a debt that must be covered it might be worth having yourself covered as a back up. It's like betting on horses. The odds are such that the more you bet the less chance of making a profit. The Possibility of a win gets you in.. ' Life insurance otherwise? Anyone in a position to get it won't be able to spend it. You can't insure yourself against death. Someone else can bet on it , and be able to collect, but not "U". If you had enough spare cash you would not insure anything because you self insure and pocket the profit. Not many of us are in that situation. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Insurance is a massive con and a real mugs game its all about giving money to pay for other peoples mistakes and keep people who do nothing employed.

No doubt you've got a spare $6m or $7m available from your assets, and readily available, in which case you certainly wouldn't be one of the mugs who have to insure to make sure there's a house over the heads of their family.

 

 

[sain]

one interesting thing - in a motor vehicle accident a passenger is considered to be a third party. This should have been covered by the insurance that comes with being a RA-Aus member.

 

 

[turboplanner]

It appears he was. Based on the link above he just has to find the $500.00 excess.

 

 

[farri]

Insurance is a massive con and a real mugs game its all about giving money to pay for other peoples mistakes and keep people who do nothing employed.

Richard, I wouldn`t argue with you on this one and you may even be right.

 

If I remember correctly, you were a member of the FNQUA when I became president or you became a member shortly after. You know that all the club activities at that time were being held here on our property because the club had nowhere else to go.

 

I became informed that if a club was sued, each and every member of the club could be sued. I decided I couldn`t take that risk and I demanded that the FNQUA become a limited liability incorprated association so that all of it`s members would bennifit. Three of us members sat down together, here at home and put a constituation together and the FNQUA became incorporated. At the next meeting, after incorporation, the treasurer ( You know who ) looked me straight in the eye, told me I was an idiot and resigned. I wondered about his resignation because now the tresurer was required to maintaun documents that were to be audited each year.

 

I spoke to him several times after that and his attitude was, " Sue me, I`ve got nothing to loose." Interesting that he didn`t care about what others might have to loose.

 

Fran and I have been paying insurance on this property for over forty years... After the last Cyclone ' Yasi ' even though we hadn`t needed to make any claims, the insurance company that we had everything insured with for all these years, decided they would no longer insure rural properties in the 4871 area of NQLD. We had to find another insurer and raise public risk cover to 10,000,000.00 just to be able to be insured.

 

Forty years of money that we could have spent on a lot of things we realy need,however, that`s only the case because we never had to make a claim.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Teckair]

Life itself is a risk and you can get unlucky but a little bit of common sense (actually uncommon now days) goes a long way towards keeping you safe, One problem with insurance is you don't really know if it covers you until it is too late. These days people make targets of themselves for lawyers and scammers. We are now locked into a vicious cycle.

 

 

[farri]

We are now locked into a vicious cycle.

Richard, I accept some of what you are saying, however, identifying a problem is only part of the solution. Without an answer to the problem you are still left with the problem.

 

Regardles of why or how we have come to this, Vicious Cycle, we are here. What would you propose we all do?

 

Frank.

 

 

[facthunter]

Analyse it and decide if it is worthwhile and then go fishing or live in the middle of the desert near a spring of cool clean water, away from the BS. Nev

 

 

[AVOCET]

Analyse it and decide if it is worthwhile and then go fishing or live in the middle of the desert near a spring of cool clean water, away from the BS. Nev

Done it .

 

 

[farri]

Analyse it and decide if it is worthwhile and then go fishing away from the BS. Nev

You mean like this?

 

 

Frank.

 

 

[Teckair]

Richard, I accept some of what you are saying, however, identifying a problem is only part of the solution. Without an answer to the problem you are still left with the problem.Regardles of why or how we have come to this, Vicious Cycle, we are here. What would you propose we all do?

 

Frank.

This not going to be easy but I have some suggestions. As with flying there is always something you can do.

 

Think of insurance not as good but as bad, something to be avoided, and never anything but a necessary evil sucking the blood out of life.

 

Never over insure, always choose the least amount you think you can get away with ( making you less of a target).

 

Avoid taking people flying and tell them why. Shun people like Steve's passenger, who sounds like he needs a smack in the pie hole.

 

Make representation to organisations such as Councils, who force clubs on peppercorn leases to over insure, that their actions are causing problems.

 

Tell anybody who is interested supporting insurance companies the way we do is creating a rod for our own back and making lawyers and insurance companies rich.

 

 

[Teckair]

Done it .[ATTACH=full]23359[/ATTACH]

Where abouts is that mate?

 

 

[AVOCET]

Where abouts is that mate?

That's Wipena pound in the top left

 

 

[Teckair]

That's Wipena pound in the top left

OK yes I see you are from Hawker the in Flinders Ranges looks good in the photo, quite a scenic area this time of the year.

 

 

[Teckair]

You mean like this?[ATTACH=full]23360[/ATTACH]

 

Frank.

Yep like that.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

That's Wipena pound in the top left

And Druid Vale strips.

 

 

[Greg Spiers]

Flying is a risky undertaking as is walking across the street, driving a car, skate boarding or walking on wet tiles in the bathroom. It is the risk that insurance companies make their billions on cos, we think they are going to save us when the proverbial hits the fan out the front, rear, or above us, sorry to be a doom sayer again. Insurance is a mine field in aviation let alone for anything else. A good friend of mine who owned and operated a helicopter company was paying $35,000 a year premium on each of his R22 helicopters (this was in the 1990's probably more now) and that didn't include use of them for training. When I was offered one of them at cost, for my own commercial training I had to pay the additional premium to cover myself and the machine. It was cost prohibitive so I went to a flight training centre instead. When he did have an accident (his first in 15,000 hrs flying) they found a clause that negated the need for them to pay out. The slightest quivering from the schedule and they wont pay out. He had to find another machine at his cost ($200,000 at the time so it was financed) in order to keep operating. He cancelled his insurance, self insured the machines but maintained a public liability cover for the third party. He had to have insurance cover on the one machine on finance but if there was the slightest hiccup and the insurance wouldn't pay, in the event of another accident with the financed machine, he would declare himself bankrupt and go get a job as a cleaner or get on the welfare. This is the ransom you pay for the sake of insurance companies to make millions of dollars at our expense. I had insurance on the PA22 I owned (see pic) but I can almost guarantee I would be singing for a pay out if I rolled it up with a passenger in it that was less than sympathetic.

 

Insurance companies are run by lawyers and what's that saying? What's the difference between a Lawyer and a Catfish? One's a scum sucking bottom dweller and the other is a fish.

 

Mmmm, Wilpena, lived there for six years, fantastic area to fly over, did it heaps in Rasheeds C206. I must do it again soon. But, I will be doing it on my own, can't afford a passenger, what a bloody shame eh?

 

Bigglesgreggles

 

 

[turboplanner]

Some people believe you can get by without reading an Insurance Policy; others wouldn't know what they are reading, yet will not spend $200.00 to have a professional read it, discuss it, and draft an itemised request for cover, others equate the amount they pay in premium to the cover they expect they will get, again without reading the clauses to make sure it's not just an over-priced policy, others simply break regulations every day and think insurance companies are stupid, but the vast majority of people are careful enough to check out what they will not have the financial ability to replace, get competitive quotes, and then make sure that cover is included in the policy. Not all that hard.