dazza 38 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Flying out of boonah we are surrounded by tiger country in certain directions . I don't have a problem flying over tiger country's when flying behind a 912. I still fly from paddock to paddock when I can . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 the terrain is rough around the snowys, but not exactly pure tiger country. the Alps t themselves are quite flat across the main range and to the east, and the real rugged stuff to the west does not extend very far before your over landable terrain, the real ugly stuff is to the south towards Mt Hotham, and south to gippsland region in vic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrogerramjet Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 so, did the hang glider pilots know you were coming? and did you know where they were? were they marked on the charts? Hi @@Ultralights Yes, yes and yes. Didn't know there'd be so many of them with a comp on though...we were in contact with their ground ops and had most of them all on visual before we even took off from Corryong. @@ianwells On occasion one has to fly over less than perfect terrain to reach a destination, the earth is not an endless patchwork of perfect emergency landing areas, unfortunately. I would have thought that navex instruction is to teach you to do it as safely as possible, not instil some sort of unfounded fear about what you can and can't do with the freedom of flight. Safety first is the key issue. Difficult terrain was crossed both times at pretty much the shortest distance possible minimising the time over rough country. Despite this experience I'd still do it again tomorrow. This was a well considered and exercised lesson, which had a modicum of luck in it's outcome..that's all. end of story. I chose to do it and fully understood where we were going and what we were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrogerramjet Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Things to look out for number 101: When your plane has a new slippery looking livery.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 When flying behind single piston engines there always going to be a risk, especially at night. All things in life is a calculated risk. Life is all about how you play the game . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Been on one of those things . Quite well constructed really. Nev Not passing comment on the quality of the J that floats in a Chinese harbour Nev. Just using the name of the vessel to give the J engine a worth while and valid name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwells Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hi Roger Yes we all occasionally fly over less than perfect terrain, but personally I try to avoid the "very nasty tiger country" . The danger of flying over such country is not an unfounded fear, it KILLS people, every year. We have a 600 m grass strip at our home, we have never had a jabiru land on it, its way too short apparently, The jabiru is not particularly STOL and very slippery, especially yours with the new brown pinstripe. So I doubt that there would be many places in the very nasty tiger country that you would have been able to put down safely in. We do all make choices as to how much risk we take in our flying, how much less than perfect terrain we fly over. I certainly wouldn't fly over the snowy mountains just because an instructor tells me to, just to obtain a bit of paper ie nav endorsement. I may fly over it for my own recreation once a lot more experienced and able to make my own judgement as to the risks involved. I'm very glad that it all worked out well for you and luck was on your side, even more impressed that you would do the flight again and havn't been put off flying. Good luck with the navs and pax endorsements and fly safe Cheers Ian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 We have a 600 m grass strip at our home, we have never had a jabiru land on it, its way too short apparently This comment about being too short at 600 mts is IMHO a lack of knowledge of the Jab performance. My 230, as with mates 170 and 160 regularly land in most conditions in far less runway distance. Please don't make comments that you know nothing about. When up your way again I will drop in to demonstrate if invited. By the way have you been talking to Maj. Re Jabs lately? Just a thought! Phil. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Glad everybody's ok. Has the engine got the new big nuts and through bolts? That were spose to stop this from occurringAgain?And again...And again...And again!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwells Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hi Phil, you are cordially invited to drop in any time when next passing, we have two good friends with jabirus (J230 and J430)and would love them to visit us here. Both pilots have inspected the strip which has several gentle undulations, and neither one will land. We seriously would like an experienced jab pilot to demonstrate it is possible to land safely here. The challenge is on. Look forward to meeting you Phil. Cheers Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I reckon if your mates have looked at it and assessed the field to be outside their personal limits or that of the machines, then it sounds like a good decision to me. Even if one bloke does manage it, it doesnt make it a safe option. Discretion is the better part of valour sometimes!!. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Agree with that. If there is any doubt, then make it no doubt, When there is no real pressure to find out the hard way that you were wrong. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Ian, me n her (wife) heading your way April , May, at 600m useable me 160 will romp it in, and off, we were actually seeking a strip in that area. PM me with co ords and contact details Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 600m sounds pretty generous unless you have an awkward approach or departure. Are you sure they didnt refuse for runway surface reasons? My slippery little sucker would do 600m in its sleep. But always better to have someone refuse and be wrong then oblige and be wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwells Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Hi Nev, dr Zoos, Merv and Russ. Couldn't agree more Nev and Merv, My friends with the jabs aren't particularly experienced with off airport operations. The 600m 17/35 has mangroves at the northern end then a couple of hundred meters of gentle undulations then approx. 350m fairly flat. I think its the undulations that puts them off. The Sav and drifter have absolutely no problem with the undulations. The southern end is clear so no problems with a go around. prevailing winds e/se. Multiple other "ultralight aircraft use the strip with no concerns, Titan Tornado, lightwings, eurofox, foxbat, x air, 701, Gyros, Most of the time we use the 240m 09/27 strip. That's why I would like an "Experienced" Jab pilot to check the strip out to see what they think. Certainly a good idea to check it out from the ground first. Russ. 20 deg 32.8' S, 148 deg 39.1'E Tel 0428 446676, we have plenty of accommodation if needed. Give us a call when you are coming up. Cheers Ian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 600 metres ,,,1800 ft approx,,,,,,,that's a lot of runway,,,,even with half a bit lumpy ,I'm not saying anyone should go in to anywhere they're not comfy with ,but with a bit of practice 600m is plenty for just about any of our lighties. It comes down to getting in tune with your plane, it's nice to have 3km of bitumen in front of you but it can be restrictive if you never learn to short field it confidently , and as a side ,when the fan stops if your current at getting it in tight your survivable paddocks suddenly become a lot more numerous, Matty 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 How about some info on engine status like was the bolt upgrade done, plenty havent What were egt etcetc Dont let that stop the mob making assumptions and voicing them here J120 have reco engine from new dont they? Dont suppose the history was known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 The "experienced Jab pilot" should be able to carry out the Performance and Operations calculations he's supposed to be doing before each flight, and subject to correct grade, surface, etc be able to tell you now. That saves you the public liability costs if someone thinks he can but can't, in the light of the sound advice coming through this thread. Many seem to float for most of that 600 m the landing roll is OK, but you can't start it 50 metres from the end fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 600 metres ,,,1800 ft approx,,,,,,,that's a lot of runway,,,,even with half a bit lumpy ,I'm not saying anyone should go in to anywhere they're not comfy with ,but with a bit of practice 600m is plenty for just about any of our lighties. It comes down to getting in tune with your plane, it's nice to have 3km of bitumen in front of you but it can be restrictive if you never learn to short field it confidently , and as a side ,when the fan stops if your current at getting it in tight your survivable paddocks suddenly become a lot more numerous,Matty Whatever the piano keys are plus about 20 metres is fine with me in a Cherokee in normal conditions too, but the Jab is a different ball of string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Hi @@Ultralights Yes, yes and yes. Didn't know there'd be so many of them with a comp on though...we were in contact with their ground ops and had most of them all on visual before we even took off from Corryong. @@ianwells Good example of airmanship there, far to often people just blast through drop zones etc, with no idea whats going on. good to see its still taught by some. as for the 600 mtrs, how about you get the details, figure out density altitude, get the loading charts and find out exactly what weights you can carry to safely get in, and out of a 600 mtr strip. dont forget the climb gradient once off the ground also. but also make sure you can fly the numbers accurately and consistently. then practice on a longer know strip, and measure out 600ft. and practice. remember how to use a P chart? figure out Density Altitude? find max TO weight given a set runway length? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Trouble is finding this info for a Jabiru, some POH give little more than minimum length to 50', and no numbers for DA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 what were the conditions when jabiru got the minimum length to 50ft? if you know that, then you can guess at how much runway you might need. just wondering how many kit aircraft builders and pilots do these calculation during their 25 hr test flying period, or just spend the 25 hours just flying around enjoying the scenery? sorry for the thread drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I wouldnt trust the jab POH figures. They arent worth a pinch. 600m might sound like a lot. But ive seen many many jab takeoffs that would easily chew that up, and landings? Dont start me. There are so many factors that arent on the charts. Arent on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Generally stated 24 deg at 100'above se level LSA's have some pretty good data done but not much in POH Shouldnt guess anything and the largest influence is the pilot, plenty of practice at similar height airfield (with plenty of length) before trying short take offs/landing for real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I've done many landings now at Heathrow, in Lightwing, Bantam, Savannah, and Drifter types. Both strips can be either easy peasy, or quiet demanding, depending on the usual variables IE: wind speed and direction, and occasionally degree of gusts and turbulence, particularly in the afternoon, as its only a couple of Ks from the ocean. The height of the cane at the approach end of the short strip, also becomes a factor to contend with later in the year, with the cane close up to the threshold and about 3.5 mts at max height. The 200 mts of 'undulations' referred to at the Northern end of the longer strip are daunting the first time, as the drops between each rise varies between approx 6-10 feet deep. This is not normally what most pilots have to contend with at touchdown time, however once you done it a few times it becomes fun, rather than challenging, and lots of fun at takeoff too. I have gone around from the flare point a couple of times on the short runway, and one must always be ready to do that if too much runway eating float is encountered. A nice challenge always . Ian and Julie have really done a great job of laying out and maintaining the runways as they have, and certainly one of my favourite destinations. I only wish it wasn't two hours away, otherwise they'd probabily see me every weekend !.....Heathrow Int. yeah !.....flying the way the Northerners like it!......Maj.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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