BlurE Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Background; Student with 18hs inc 2 solo. I revisited some of my emergency procedures, engine failures in the circuit, EFATO, stall-spin etc etc, in the morning before I was due to fly. Went up with the intention of doing an hour of solo circuits and realised I had scared myself into being FAST. I really struggled and had to force myself to pitch up enough to set the appropriate 'slow' departure and glide speeds. (60-70kn) Every time I had to slow down felt so very uncomfortable. Has anyone else ever had this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Yes, all over the place at those hours, make sure you get your BAK done fast to back up what the instructor is telling you, and analyse why, then practice again. If you felt uncomfortable you knew you weren't at the optimum so that's good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickduncs84 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Yep. Not so much on a calm day, but with a bit of wind or thermals you need to have everything working together. When I was at that stage I found it helpful to go up to 3500 and practice flying around at different airapeeds. If you spend a bit of time manoeuvring at just above stall speed, the approach will seem a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Sounds like your scared of the stall. When you say revisited stall-spin. What does that mean? Revisited in your head, theory books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlurE Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Just revised theory, I have only done a few simple poweroff stalls. And they're ok because you know you have 3000ft of sky below you. I think Nickduncs84 is right. Some time at altitude really exploring flying slow would definitely help. I'll have a talk to my instructor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Plenty of people get into the habit of doing things that aren't right. It usually shows with holding an aeroplane at too high a speed on the approach, so you risk using too much runway and perhaps "wheelbarrowing" a nosewheel plane, at some stage. IF you are "concerned" when you fly slow, do some more time dual. You are not alone at not liking being slow, but it does show that there is something to be worked at with your training, to make you more confident. The normal recommended climb and approach speeds have a fair bit of reserve above stall which should give a sufficient safety margin unless there is a gusty wind situation. I would recommend that you do dual slow flight with and without power and get the feel of a slow plane when manoeuvring and the limitations of capacity to manoeuver. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Good idea. Its a perfect example of how a 'gap' in the knowledge can end up being dangerous. Get some dual, doing stalls, wing drops, powered, flap, in turns, the whole lot (as per the RAA Syllabus) and you will find your apprehension should disappear. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It is good to get competence with slow flight. Just keep at it at safe heights and get the feel of the plane, then you will feel at ease. It ia easy to say this of course, but you want to make every hour count towards your licence. One of the joys of owning is that you can do this sort of thing with less cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 the following is advice from a pilot - not an instructor - you must speak to your instructor .................. with instructor (and the stalls) fly around slow with a notch of flap (if you have flaps) - there is no harm in this - it is good approach and fly down the strip in this configuration and see what that feels like (if the instructor is not breaking any rules of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundsounds Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I would suggest you don't do any further solo until you've sorted out this apprehension of slow flight. You need to be able to fly the aircraft happily in all phases of flight by setting appropriate power and attitude combinations, then verify airspeed by reference to the ASI. Perhaps you are doing this subconsciously and the ASI is misreading? Should the ASI be misreading you must be able to confidently identify the error, then safely fly an approach and landing. With all of my students, I cover the ASI and altimeter and have them fly circuits (once they are near solo standard). This helps develop confidence in their ability to fly by power + attitude and eyeball circuit / final turn heights without blind abeyance of instruments which may be in error. A bug up the pitot or some water in the static system can lead to all sorts of errors in the ASI and/or Altimeter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 OR take a break and go fly a glider for a few hours; that will teach you how to handle flying close to the stall; gliders fly in that condition whenever they are thermalling, and you get the feel of it. However, you do NOT fly close to the stall in the circuit; gliders fly at around 1.5 times the real stall speed, on their landing approach. The normal minimum approach speed for landing a powered aircraft (which does not have dive brakes) is 1.3 times the REAL stall speed - and most people add about half the gust velocity to that (so if the wind is, say, 15 knots gusting to 25 knots, add five knots). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Great advice people...this is what this site is for 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrogerramjet Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Interesting comment @@BlurE, I always found 70kts 'fast' and my first 40-50 landings were quite unnerving as the runway rushed up at me ! I certainly would feel more 'scared' storming in at higher speeds, than slightly under. Initially I started to err in nervous caution and drop it to 60-65kts on late final, much to my instructors great concern. :-) As others have said, more theory, BAK (and POH) will help you understand why the 'correct' speed is best and you'll begin to trust your aircraft and yourself a little more. Remembering your bird still 'flies' at glide speed, albeit slowly downwards... I found a series of simulated engine failures in different parts of the circuit helped to build confidence in how the plane performs quite adequately at glide speed, and even just below. Personally, I can't wait to get a Savannah so I can come in at 40kts, even more sedately. :-) enjoy your flying ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 This is why getting rid of the Endorsement system was such a bad idea, and how letting someone fly all and any aircraft in a particular weight group is just asking for aircraft damage......and it seems producing it, particularly in damage after landings. The Department of Transport introduced Australian Design Rules mandating common performance standards for cars and trucks. They haven't finished yet, but in very broad terms you can accelerate based on around 40 kW/tonne, and when you apply the steering wheel 5% you'll get the same turning effect, when you apply the brakes 50% you'l get the same braking effect, and so on. There are no vehicles legal today where in order to slow down you have to jam your arm on top of the steering wheel, downshift in the main gearbox while reaching behind the seat to down shift the joey box. While the thought appears to have been along the same lines for the same department with aircraft, the brain doesn't seem to have been in gear. Aircraft can be massively different to control, and speeds quite a sensitive part of it, and something it pays to keep a record of in a booklet. Time with an instructor probably would have settled Roger's concerns quickly. It reminds me of the nervousness I felt pointing a Grumman at the sky on takeoff at an angle that would have seen a Cherokk stall ........but that was its takeoff performance. Pilots didn't get to train on the Grumman, then walk out to the line with a set of Cherokee keys in their hand then, but they can now............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 If you revert some aspects of your flying to another (more familiar) type it won't help things. You have to UN learn some planes to get endorsed on others. Adaptability comes with experience to a point, but instinctive things relate to recency. I have had quite a few comments along the line of "Oh I thought I was still on the Whatever Mk2".. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Pilots didn't get to train on the Grumman, then walk out to the line with a set of Cherokee keys in their hand then, but they can now............ Legally ,yes, but the reality is unless you own the plane you will have to prove to someone, usually an instructor ,that you can operate the type, as for landing accidents,,,,we've been smacking aeroplanes into the ground at various velocities for over a hundred years,,,,,and I doubt it'll change as long as gravity sucks, Matty 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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