Suggested change in MTOW limits

[turboplanner]

Nothing wrong with my payload. 370Lbs is more than enough for a solo flight and 4.5 hr endurance with VFR reserves, at 180mph. Or a 2 hour local junket with one of my kids.And that's exactly what they're worried about. But what about the Europa XS' on the register? Or J200's? Or Retired Racer's RV-9? They all have the ability to be operated over their legal MTOW, but they're registered RAAus.

Virtually every light GA aircraft is a compromise between full fuel or full passenger complement. That's why P&O is mandatory before a flight, but when someone starts using 70 kg per pax against the more typical 90+ for an Australian male, alarm bells start to ring, and it's interesting to see that after a couple of months of screaming at CASA, accusing them of being the new Stasi, we now see some posts which indicate they've been asleep at the wheel, so we now have some some balance.

 

It can be problematic for a regulator faced with claims and "proof" that an aircraft meets specifications, but owners and hirers who do manage to sneak these things through, and then overnight put on an extra 30 kg, and take their 110 kg mate for a cross country, should realise that even if they get it off the ground, if they lose control it's likely to be a criminal charge and a successful lawsuit regardles of the warning placard.

 

You are quite likely to get away with it for years if not caught in a CASA ramp check, but the unavoidable one is when all the overweight is sprawled around the crash site.

 

 

[ave8rr]

Yes, BUT that will never happen again.

I think that aircraft has been deregistered and is for sale on the members market?

 

 

[ave8rr]

I would encourage people to read, and understand, CAO95.55. The often-quoted payload limitation does not apply to amateur-built aircraft, only aircraft manufacturered by an entity approved by a national airworthiness authority satisfactory to CAsA.

Still limited to 600kg MTOW under RAAus registration so can be payload limited based on BEW.

 

 

[KRviator]

Still limited to 600kg MTOW under RAAus registration so can be payload limited based on BEW.

I was referring to the "2 seats x 80kg + fuel for 1/2 the HP" formula that I've heard so many times...The 1320Lb MTOW limitation is set in stone, no argument there.

 

 

[Kununurra]

Ahhhhh the freedom of speech

 

 

[ben87r]

Not sure what RA use but standard pax weight would be 86kg

 

 

[poteroo]

Not sure what RA use but standard pax weight would be 86kg

And it continues to grow!!

 

 

[ben87r]

Care to elaborate there pots?

 

 

[ben87r]

From caap 235. What I left out for simplicity is the caap recommends under 7 seats it not be used in practice for W+B

[poteroo]

Care to elaborate there pots?

'Standard weight' was 75 kgs for a male and 60 for female back in the 70's - if I remember correctly? Sometimes I don't! In any case, the Regs require that we use 'actual' weights and not rely on so called 'standards' anymore. The tongue-in-cheek in my 1st post was to intimate that, as a society, we are becoming heavier. happy days,

 

 

[ben87r]

Ah sorry mate! Not how I read it but can see it now.

 

I still use standard weights but only when I know I'm well under and in balance. Saves me asking, or having to weigh pax, and can do the paperwork before they arrive.

 

 

[frank marriott]

'Standard weight' was 75 kgs for a male and 60 for female back in the 70's - if I remember correctly? Sometimes I don't! In any case, the Regs require that we use 'actual' weights and not rely on so called 'standards' anymore. The tongue-in-cheek in my 1st post was to intimate that, as a society, we are becoming heavier. happy days,

Poteroo, not that it makes any difference to your post, only a memory test really, but I seem to have 77kg (male) burnt into my memory? Maybe it went up a couple of kgs in the late 70s, or "my" memory is slipping -

 

 

[ave8rr]

I was referring to the "2 seats x 80kg + fuel for 1/2 the HP" formula that I've heard so many times...The 1320Lb MTOW limitation is set in stone, no argument there.

I think you will find fuel is required for min 1 hour PLUS the required fixed reserve.

 

 

[poteroo]

Poteroo, not that it makes any difference to your post, only a memory test really, but I seem to have 77kg (male) burnt into my memory? Maybe it went up a couple of kgs in the late 70s, or "my" memory is slipping -

You could be right there. 77kg is pretty close to 12 stone, (168 lbs), which was always a sort of benchmark. If it's now 86 kg - then it just shows we are all growing. If we want to 'fit' into the 600 kg LSA - then it's going to need some crew weight reduction. I've reduced my weight from 83 to 73 kgs over 18 months by just using the 5:2 'fasting' eating program. Cheap, and a little bit 'painful' - none the less - very effective. cheers,

 

 

[poteroo]

Ah sorry mate! Not how I read it but can see it now.I still use standard weights but only when I know I'm well under and in balance. Saves me asking, or having to weigh pax, and can do the paperwork before they arrive.

Ben, pax lie outrageously about their weights. beware!

 

 

[KRviator]

I think you will find fuel is required for min 1 hour PLUS the required fixed reserve.

Could well be right there, but either way, the formula doesn't apply to my RV-9 registered with RAAus, nor any amateur-built aircraft registered under CAO95.55EDIT: Actually, just to put it to bed, here is the actual formula from CAO95.55.

 

If the engine is rated in HP: 175 x #seats + 0.5 x HP

 

If the engine is rated in kw: 80 x #seats + 0.3 x kw

 

So IF that formula applied to my RV (which it doesn't) the minimum payload would be 175 x 2 + 0.5 x 165 = 432.5 Lbs. If I specify my RV as a single seater, then it more than meets the requirements as follows: 175 x 1 + 0.5 x 165 = 257.5Lbs.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Could well be right there, but either way, the formula doesn't apply to my RV-9 registered with RAAus, nor any amateur-built aircraft registered under CAO95.55EDIT: Actually, just to put it to bed, here is the actual formula from CAO95.55.

 

If the engine is rated in HP: 175 x #seats + 0.5 x HP

 

If the engine is rated in kw: 80 x #seats + 0.3 x kw

 

So IF that formula applied to my RV (which it doesn't) the minimum payload would be 175 x 2 + 0.5 x 165 = 432.5 Lbs. If I specify my RV as a single seater, then it more than meets the requirements as follows: 175 x 1 + 0.5 x 165 = 257.5Lbs.

Thanks for that, I wondered where that formula came in. Looking at 95.55 that requirement to be able to carry a minimum load is only for type certified, factory built aircraft. It's not a requirement for self built or for LSA, strange, I wonder why.

 

 

[David Isaac]

You could be right there. 77kg is pretty close to 12 stone, (168 lbs), which was always a sort of benchmark. If it's now 86 kg - then it just shows we are all growing. If we want to 'fit' into the 600 kg LSA - then it's going to need some crew weight reduction. I've reduced my weight from 83 to 73 kgs over 18 months by just using the 5:2 'fasting' eating program. Cheap, and a little bit 'painful' - none the less - very effective. cheers,

That's impressive Pots, I was 72kgs when I got married, all prick and rib they used to say, not much prick either ...LOL. I Am attempting to get down into at least the high 70s from mid to high 80s so your 5:2 fasting sounds interesting. Where can you get details on that?

 

 

[poteroo]

That's impressive Pots, I was 72kgs when I got married, all prick and rib they used to say, not much prick either ...LOL. I Am attempting to get down into at least the high 70s from mid to high 80s so your 5:2 fasting sounds interesting. Where can you get details on that?

Just Google 'fasting diet' or '5:2 diet' or even 'Michael Mosely diet'. There are a couple small books out as well. In practical terms - you lose the visceral fat accumulations, and soon start taking up the belt by a couple holes. I've gone from just fitting into size 34 jeans to easily into size 32. Sounds like about 6 months should pull you back from mid 80 kgs to high 70's. Between the bride and myself - we now have 22 kg more disposable load in the air. happy days,

 

 

[David Isaac]

Thanks, excess weight is a real enemy especially to blood pressure. They say 10 Kgs excess contributes to 10 BP points, that is significant. I still want to be flying my old Auster when she and me are at 90, that is my goal ... 29 years to go ... Yahoo.

 

 

[robinsm]

according to the formulae It doesnt appear that my aircraft would get off the ground (110kg)...lol

 

 

[facthunter]

If you get skinny, David you will get wrinkly and look as if you have aids or something, and you will have to give up all that RED which is bad if you want to lose weight. 72 Kgs?? Think I was 76 when 18 years old and I looked as thin as Gregory Peck, rode a pushy 20 MILES a day and swam a couple most days. (Lived on the Beach at Cook's Hill). You're taller than me, I think, so you can carry a bit more.

 

Eat no $#!t bad fats salt sugar processed food, cakes bread.Pies ( I used to be a Pie Connoisier. Knew where all the best pie shops were). No burnt meat on barby's either. You get over all that . All my fat is made from good stuff. I haven't given up the wine. Less of better. Eat fish too. Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

Funny you should say that Nev. I think I was so hyperactive (they give that a label today) that I could eat anything when I was sub 35 and just burn it off. I also considered I knew where the best pies were as well ... LOL. Not so these days. About 10 years back I lost a lot of weight under a 'Fit for life' plan life style and my associates all thought I had contracted cancer when I turned up for a meeting.

 

Fact is I have never felt better than I did back then. I might have looked crook to those who had previously seen me fatter, but I had energy to burn. I have never been really overweight but the little I do gain does have a significant impact on my energy levels.

 

I agree with what you are saying we food selection life style, we are very selective on what we eat these days and NOT on any form of medication. I still remember the advice that Pat gave me that day I popped in when the Drs had prescribed me Lipitor for my Migraine 'incident' that cost me my medical, best thing I ever did was get of that stuff, it had some nasty side effects on me

 

 

[facthunter]

All the medications have side effects that are generally BAD by themselves but in addition react badly with some foods and other drugs.(medical). I believe it is possible to get off most by diet and exercise. There's LESS money to be made so a lot of doctors don't agree it makes any difference. THEY only do a few days on food and diet in their courses, so are food skeptics. Get a new doctor if required and have a Chemist who has a Naturapath on staff. Nev

 

 

[Bikky]

Be careful when choosing a naturopath. Look carefully at their credentials and don't hesitate to walk out the door if one suggests you should ignore your GP's advice. Naturopaths should practice complementary medicine. A well qualified naturopath has done 4 years mandatory study of nutrition as opposed to a GP where nutrition is an optional component.

 

But again, don't be afraid to ask for credentials. There are lots of "crystal swingers" out there!