old man emu Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I'm throwing up my arms in despair at the deviousness of our politicians who try to deceive the masses with misinterpretation of reality. It seems that politicians have their eyes set on the land occupied by Bankstown Airport according to this report: http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/bankstown-airport-problematic-foley In a speech to parliament , Foley,the State Opposition Leader, said that the rise of Western Sydney Airport would create air traffic issues and that the future of Bankstown needed to be considered. He used the air traffic issue to make a grab for the land by playing the "Jobs Creation" card. "Our global economic corridor cannot be limited to Sydney's north and east. We must stretch the global arc to Sydney's south and west. It is easy to imagine Bankstown as the next Macquarie Park or Norwest Business Park, full of tens of thousands of high-wage jobs and providing employment opportunities for local people in Sydney's south and west." "Planning and consultation around developing it as an employment centre needs to be initiated now. Part of this process will involve resolving where Bankstown's air traffic will go. Some of it, of course, can be relocated to the new airport." Yes. The opening of Badgerys Creek will require changes to GA air movements in the Sydney Basin, but nothing serious enough to cause the closure of Bankstown Airport. How many GA airports are there in the vicinity of Los Angeles Inernational, and many other major airports? And if GA movements impinge on Commercial movments, how come we can fly a Victor 1 under K-S flight paths any day of the week? "Foley's remarks come only weeks after the holding company that owns the leases for both Bankstown and Camden, BAC Holdco, was put up for sale." The fly in the ointment is that one of the conditions of the leases is that the leaseholder maintain the land for predominantly aviation purposes. The landlord is the Federal Government, so I don't see a major land sale in the future. BAC Holdco is allegedly trying to get rid of its tenancy because the bean counters who originally saw holding the leases as a financial milch cow, soon learned that maintaining essential infrastructure can never be a profitable exercise. Old Man Emu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 OME Personally I don't see how Bankstown is able to operate single engine aircraft of any type is you consider the requirements of being able to glide clear of a built up area in the event of an engine failure. Aldo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 The trouble is, is that Sydney really needs another airport and Badgerys Creek is the best location for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 OMEPersonally I don't see how Bankstown is able to operate single engine aircraft of any type is you consider the requirements of being able to glide clear of a built up area in the event of an engine failure. Aldo What you are saying about being able to glide clear of the build up area is good airmanship, logical and sensible however where is it written in the rules? CAR 157 dosent have it? http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/car1988263/s157.html but the US version of that rule does have something but in effect it just requires somewhere to crash without risk to others: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.119 Is it really a rule in Australia and I have missed it? Or is it just a rumour that has been passed around generations of pilots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 i know its built in to the instrument affecting Jabiru-engined aircraft, so maybe an assumption based on that. If it were already a regulation, then it wouldn't need to be spelled out in a special instrument aimed at a particular engine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAFA Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Have a look at all the smaller airports located near the majors in the USA. Works over there so operations at BK will be able to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 yes but the FAA aren't run by the Keystone Kops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Badgey's creek.. Probably more fog than Kingsford Smith. Develop Williamtown ( Newcastle) and fast rail to Sydney. The fast rail should be built in any case. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 What you are saying about being able to glide clear of the build up area is good airmanship, logical and sensible however where is it written in the rules?CAR 157 dosent have it? http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/car1988263/s157.html but the US version of that rule does have something but in effect it just requires somewhere to crash without risk to others: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.119 Is it really a rule in Australia and I have missed it? Or is it just a rumour that has been passed around generations of pilots? Nobody Yes it appears as though that statement I made is incorrect (sorry about that) all the regs say 1000 feet above populated areas. I have certainly been told the other though but it must as you say be rumour. Aldo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Badgey's creek.. Probably more fog than Kingsford Smith. Develop Williamtown ( Newcastle) and fast rail to Sydney. The fast rail should be built in any case. Nev Good idea Nev, but Williamtown being a RAAF Base , will never allow it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 OMEPersonally I don't see how Bankstown is able to operate single engine aircraft of any type is you consider the requirements of being able to glide clear of a built up area in the event of an engine failure. Aldo There is a excellent landing area next to the airport if you find yourself short of height. It is that great big green thing called a golf course. Much better use than golf. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 There is a excellent landing area next to the airport if you find yourself short of height.It is that great big green thing called a golf course. Much better use than golf. I was looking at the approach from the north not many places to go there from 2000 - 2500 feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Most secondaries have little in the way of EFATO areas, a friend of mine had a partial engine failure luckily at night at YPPF but luckily turned it around from 200'. She knew turning around wasn't the "right" thing to do but, didn't like the idea of an unexpected visit into someone's bedroom. Not a nice thought but unfortunately sometimes reducing the fatalities would be the only option, worked out in the end for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 When you lose one of only one engine you don't have a lot of options. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Why does Sydney need another airport. I don't believe that all the people who fly in to Sydney, actually want to stay there. The tourists wantto see other arts of Australia and it is just a pain in the butt for Queenslanders, Victorians and South Australians to have to travel via Sydney. A lot of the traffic could go to places like Rockhampton, Mackay, Cairns for example in Qld. I don't know how Sydney compares with places like Heathrow, but whenever I have been there there seems to be plenty of time between traffic. I can remember in the 50's Heathrow had 3 minutes between planes and I doubt Sydney is anywhere near that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 NobodyYes it appears as though that statement I made is incorrect (sorry about that) all the regs say 1000 feet above populated areas. I have certainly been told the other though but it must as you say be rumour. Aldo If it is a 19 reg aircraft then you need written permission from RAA Aus to fly over built up areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 The trouble is, is that Sydney really needs another airport and Badgerys Creek is the best location for it. Why does Sydney need another airport. I don't believe that all the people who fly in to Sydney, actually want to stay there. The tourists wantto see other arts of Australia and it is just a pain in the butt for Queenslanders, Victorians and South Australians to have to travel via Sydney.A lot of the traffic could go to places like Rockhampton, Mackay, Cairns for example in Qld. I don't know how Sydney compares with places like Heathrow, but whenever I have been there there seems to be plenty of time between traffic. I can remember in the 50's Heathrow had 3 minutes between planes and I doubt Sydney is anywhere near that. Thanks, you two for posting anything related to the original topic. I thought that I was starting a thread in which to discuss an aviation operations topic, but once again a thread has been sidetracked by pessimistic nit-pickers. If that type of people can think of nothing else but disaster scenarios involving light aircraft, then bugger off to a mass media Facebook page and spend time writing about Cessnas plummeting from the sky. Now, has anyone got anything constructive to say in relation to the topic? One Angry Emu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 OME, Sorry If I was one of the nitpickers but I couldn't let the comment about Single Engine ops into Bankstown go un-answered. We have enough rules without rumors of more.... On the original topic though, there is no need for Bankstown to close provided that a reasonable solution can be worked out with the airspace. Many places in other parts of the world can operate well with more congested airspace. What needs to happen though is concerted lobbying from the little end of GA to get the right solution in place. I am a little disappointed that SAAA, RAAus and AOPA haven't got together to plan out how the Sydney airspace could work so that they are all on the same page when the discussion start to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 So OAE what you are trying to point out isn't the fact of a badgeries creek airport it is the fact that they are murmuring about getting rid of bankstown? Is that right or am I way off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldo Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 If it is a 19 reg aircraft then you need written permission from RAA Aus to fly over built up areas. Robinsm Yes it is 19 and I do have the letter thanks for the heads up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 so do I, just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 So OAE what you are trying to point out isn't the fact of a badgeries creek airport it is the fact that they are murmuring about getting rid of bankstown? Is that right or am I way off? Quite correct. I've no complaint about Badgerys Creek. There is a need for expanded commercial aviation infrastructure in the Sydney Basin. I agree with Yenn that not all International travelers want Sydney to be their only destination, and it shouldn't be. However, the increasing size of the resident population needs another airport to allow the residents to fly to locations within Australia. Also, Badgerys is a good place to expand International and Domestic air freight as it is well positioned for linking air and ground transport. What I wanted to point out is the crass stupidity and deception of politicians. The comments clearly show a desire for a land grab. Anybody with a smidgen of knowledge of the social and economic demographic of South West Sydney knows this comment, " It is easy to imagine Bankstown as the next Macquarie Park or Norwest Business Park, full of tens of thousands of high-wage jobs and providing employment opportunities for local people in Sydney's south and west." is pie in the sky. Tens of thousands of residents in South West Sydney don't have the education levels to gain high-wage jobs. Successive governments of both persuasions have pushed low income and blue collar types into that region (subject to the exceptions that prove the rule). And who is to be the holder of the head lease at Badgerys Creek? If it is a mob like the Sydney Airports Corporation, then "In March 2010, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission released a report sharply critical of price gouging at Sydney airport, ranking it fifth out of five airports. The report noted Sydney Airport recorded the highest average prices at $13.63 per passenger, compared to the lowest of $7.96 at Melbourne Airport, while the price of short-term parking had almost doubled in the 2008–09 financial year, from $28 to $50 for four hours. The report also accused the airport of abusing its monopoly power. What chance would the small aircraft maintenance businesses currently barely keeping their heads above water at Bankstown have if forced over the Badgerys? And how would very light aircraft manage to get airways clearances to drop in at Badgerys for their 100 hourly's? OME 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Randwick, Canterbury, Rosehill, Warwick Farm, Harold Park, Menagle, Penrith and Bankstown all have race tracks which would make excellent industrial/commercial centres as their currents useage is quite low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Doesn't seem like much happens in Macquarie street either, more factory units? Maybe a Bunnings and a Harvey Norman? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Brisbane will, be able to take international flights from Sydney after the second runway is completed but that is about 10 years away from completion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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