Phil Perry Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Ignore the video title, as it is Bollox. . . but this one is interesting. Saw it on a Non-aviation site earlier, and the comments were hilarious. . . 'The passengers should all be weighed - they were all too heavy. . .' Etc. . . . Bless. . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Must have rotated too early. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Somebody got the sums wrong again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Take a look at at the trailing edge and ask where are the flaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I did that and they are not UP. The Leading edge devices are extended . You can see that early in the take off roll. I'd say the flaps are at least 5 degrees. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Yes, where indeed are the flaps set...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Don't think the setting was changed. It still looks the same. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I don't think there's much in it looking at it from the rear....Initially I thought the flaps were still up, but when you see what it looks like up, you can see the difference. Stills from a youtube clip just before pushback. Flaps up... and set for t/o? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 could have been a few reasons, wrong weights entered into the FMC, wrong weights given for freight, Flight planning gave incorrect numbers, sudden gusting headwind? wont be the last, Emirates had an issue at Melbourne, but resulted in a tailstrike from over rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Someone seemed to realise they were slow. They accelerate better when the nose is not way up at a high angle. It probably flew in ground effect only initially. I don't think it was a gust. The supporting NF pilot calls V1 and rotate from a preset reference. Take off data card or something more "modern". It's a pretty significant "Blue" to get it wrong. V1 is your decision speed.. Go or not go..Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 I had the 'Rotate too early' demonstrated in a B737 simulator many years back. . . a much safer means to examine the situation methinks. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Doesn't look like a lot of flap, I thought they only had a limited number of positions? Either way, he probably should have had the next one? Was lucky he had the room to set down and get a bit more speed. Also, if the camera was in the same spot, he was taking off opposite the Airbus that landed first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Definitely rotated way early compared to a "normal" takeoff. If you compare the time to the first attempt to rotate to any of the numerous other B737 takeoff videos out there, there's a very big difference. The flaps look like they are at "1" (leading edge flaps/slats partly extended, trailing edge flaps retracted) which is a valid takeoff position. Why did they rotate so early? No idea. Mistook the "V1" call for the "rotate" call maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted September 1, 2016 Author Share Posted September 1, 2016 Definitely rotated way early compared to a "normal" takeoff. If you compare the time to the first attempt to rotate to any of the numerous other B737 takeoff videos out there, there's a very big difference.The flaps look like they are at "1" (leading edge flaps/slats partly extended, trailing edge flaps retracted) which is a valid takeoff position. Why did they rotate so early? No idea. Mistook the "V1" call for the "rotate" call maybe? Us puddlejumper drivers will have to rely upon the experience of you RPT blokes to make any valid comment on that Dutch. . . very interesting all the same. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 I have to say it seemed to be well recovered. Even if it was a stupendous screwup in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 That part was done well, but they shouldn't have rotated as far as they did. (Someone probably took over). Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Yep, Allah intervened. Allahu aqbar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 More inclined to think it was the other pilot. It was well done.. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 The flaps look like they are at "1" (leading edge flaps/slats partly extended, trailing edge flaps retracted) which is a valid takeoff position. I thought 'Flaps 1' was more a climb-out position, with at least one stage of trailing edge (if not two?) flap for heavy take off and initial climb (below 1000')? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 On the B737, takeoff with flaps 1 improves the second segment climb performance. What this means is that on certain runways where second segment climb performance is limiting due to obstacles and required climb out gradients but the runway length is sufficient, the takeoff weight can be increased by using flaps 1. On our B737s using runway 35 at Canberra for example, where the second segment is limiting due to the gradient required, using flaps 1 for takeoff gives them an extra 2.8 tonnes of payload. It's not a "common" takeoff flap setting for the B737 as such. They usually use flap 5. But it's an "allowable" one which can be used in certain circumstances. They can use more than flap 5 for takeoff too. That would be if the weight and runway length were performance limiting but the second segment was not. On the B767 the standard takeoff setting was flap 5 but at heavy weights and warm days in Honololu or Tokyo we sometimes had to use flap 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Sorry, flap 15 on the B767 for runway length/weight limitations. There was no flap 10 setting. Getting confused with my even earlier years on the B747 which does have a flap 10 setting but normally used flap 20 for takeoff. It still looks like they rotated too early even if they had V speeds for the wrong flap setting. The difference is < 10 knots and usually more like 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperplace Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 on 737, 747 and 767, do these numbers for flap mean anything? degrees? or just numbers on a scale? and if so, do they correspond to degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Yes they do correspond closely to what the trailing edge flaps go to. You have to have the LE's out by 5 normally and they (LE's) don't move after that. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 on 737, 747 and 767, do these numbers for flap mean anything? degrees? or just numbers on a scale? and if so, do they correspond to degrees? Boeing - roughly correspond to degrees (though the B737 "flaps 5" setting is actually an angle of 12 degrees trailing edge flap). Airbus - no resemblance whatsoever. Just numbers and words on a lever. Flaps 0, 1, 2, 3, Full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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