That damn windsock!

[Romeo Juliet Whiskey]

How come no one warned me how difficult it is to read a windsock in the circuit from a 1000ft!!!

 

Maybe its just me but this has been the hardest part of learning to fly for me (besides landing of course) I even made a short video of my humorous attempts at trying to interpret the windsock. Surely I'm not the only one???

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Having gone to the trouble, It's best to get it right. From overhead gives you the best perspective but you are not in the right position for long so, you might work on making it happen from other angles.Nev

 

 

[BlurE]

Yes, paralax can be a problem too. What I thought was limp against the side the other day, actually tuned out to be 5 on the tail. I was working rather hard to get down for a few circuits before a good look from a different angle made the reason all to clear. Fortunately I had plenty of runway length and would have gone round if I got really long. Might have been a good exercise to do on purpose one day - rather than by accident. Ha ha.

 

 

[BlurE]

And while I'm being honest a bit of confirmation bias was in there too. I expected to see nil wind so guess what I saw...

 

 

[Romeo Juliet Whiskey]

Yeah, when there is not much wind it makes it much harder to read I find.

 

 

[frank marriott]

RJW

 

My only comment would be a proper windsock,read correctly, gives you direction and strength, after you get your certificate be prepared for variations at private strips. Many light plastic windsocks give you direction ONLY.

 

 

[Dinga]

haha, yes I hear ya. I end up looking long and hard usually to work it out but of course as was mentioned previously some windsocks are better than others, usually where I fly they are either just average or they actually lie because they are in the wrong position and get influenced by terrain.

 

Cant beat being right over the top so you can look down.

 

 

[Nightmare]

Also, when you start monitoring the aerodrome frequency from the 10nm inbound mark, see if you can hear what runway other pilots are using by listening to the broadcasts, if there's traffic. They may be practicing their crosswind landings though, so check with an overfly.

 

How come no one warned me how difficult it is to read a windsock in the circuit from a 1000ft!!!

BTW, the time you are most likely to read the windsock is at the overfly height, which is at least 1500ft to 2000ft. Tony

[Jabiru7252]

We have three socks at Gawler and they often have a different opinion on wind direction.

 

 

[diesel]

I thought they just point the way to go.

 

But serious for a moment.

 

Your windsock has a white ring around it.

 

Ours in NZ used to. They are red now. Looks good from the earthbound office. Red being an earthern colour is invisible from the air a lot of the time.

 

Check your drift on the way to the airport.

 

Chas

 

 

[Romeo Juliet Whiskey]

Had another attempt at reading the windsock yesterday. I think I'm getting better at it. Looking for the ring around it can help. To get a conclusive read i feel like I need to see the windsock from at least two directions of more than 90 degrees apart and then confirm on final approach.

 

 

[Fishla]

500 foot circuits makes it much easier. :)

 

 

[facthunter]

Are all the windsocks standard specification? I doubt it. The angle from the horizontal will give you windstrength. (Beaufort scale) You are not likely to get that kind of visual accuracy from 1,500' AGL. Perhaps something a bit more "modern" in this day and age would be more fitting. Automatic ATIS with VHF triggering like airport lighting? Nev

 

 

[Doug Evans]

I use other reference such as smoke, windmills ,air flow on ponds , also u can feel the drift of the craft as u join in the circuits as well as your socks !

 

 

Hope this may help understand them better

 

 

[DWF]

............. Perhaps something a bit more "modern" in this day and age would be more fitting. Automatic ATIS with VHF triggering like airport lighting? Nev

This is already available at some airports.

YESP has continuous AWIS on 123.05

 

YNWN has continuous AWIS on 135.05

 

YABA has VHF activated (by 1 second Tx pulse) AWIS on 122.125

 

YSDU has VHF activated (by 1 second Tx pulse) AWIS on 122.975

 

and you can find lots more in ERSA

 

Many locations also have their AWIS available via phone so you can check on the weather before getting to the airport (or via your mobile before getting within VHF range if airborne)

 

 

[Romeo Juliet Whiskey]

500 foot circuits makes it much easier. :)

True that...makes me wonder though... How do you read the windsock if your flying a 1500ft circuit in a high performance plane?

 

 

[facthunter]

Quickly...... If you do a straight in approach you won't read it either. Spending a lot of effort on a windsock might be at the expense of keeping a good watch for other traffic as well. Nev

 

 

[ben87r]

This is already available at some airports.YESP has continuous AWIS on 123.05

YNWN has continuous AWIS on 135.05

 

YABA has VHF activated (by 1 second Tx pulse) AWIS on 122.125

 

YSDU has VHF activated (by 1 second Tx pulse) AWIS on 122.975

 

and you can find lots more in ERSA

 

Many locations also have their AWIS available via phone so you can check on the weather before getting to the airport (or via your mobile before getting within VHF range if airborne)

And YWOL on 120.35!

 

 

[DrZoos]

True that...makes me wonder though... How do you read the windsock if your flying a 1500ft circuit in a high performance plane?

Most aerodromes taking high perfromance have AWIS so they just listen to that at about and go with it.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Just remember to land into the little end & out the big end.

 

Seriously though I think most of us struggle from time to time with the wind sock. I miss seeing it ( go round again), make a 180 error (very light or variable wind)

 

To add difficulty some airfields want you to land on a particular runway direction even if there is a small tail wind. I know of one, that I use fairly often, that requests landings to the south (up hill) and take off to the north (down hill) in all but a strong wind. I never know what I should do as my aircraft has no problem landing into wind, down hill and taking off into wind, up hill. I usually follow the local "customs" even though I would prefer to stick to into wind takeoff/landings.

 

Some airfields have a preferred runway when the sock shows no indication or a 90 degree cross wind. You wont know this unless you have local knowledge read ERSA (if listed) or listen to the circuit frequency.

 

I usually monitor the circuit frequency from 20 + miles out in the hope of determining the "active" runway (I do my inbound/on decent call at 10 Nm, so begin monitoring well before this). When in doubt, I may make a call asking for the active.

 

As previously mentioned aircraft heading/track/ground speed are good indicators but be careful of this as it is not uncommon for wind direction/speed aloft to differ to that close to the ground.

 

Smoke is one of my favourite indicators, but again can lead you astray if not close to the destination landing ground.

 

Patriots who fly flags are always helpful.

 

Birds usually take off into wind but can be hard to see.

 

Unless you are a commercial service (time/money imperative) or there is a dire emergency (need to pee or worse) do not make straight in approach to landings. Just because its legal does not make it right for amateur pilots. Far better to overfly (min 500 ft above circuit height) and check out the situation (sock, traffic on ground/air, etc) before descending to circuit height. Good idea to make a overhead call with intentions.

 

My last bit of advise is - learn to make down wind landings, you never know when this may be your only option.

 

 

[Romeo Juliet Whiskey]

Some really helpful advice Skippydiesel...thanks for that:) I understand the performance limitations/penalties/higher groundspeed of downwind landings, but is their execution still the same as a normal into the wind landing?

 

 

[skippydiesel]

RJW - I think tail wind landings/takeoffs should be taught by a competent instructor. You appear to have the theory but execution/practice is another thing.

 

Do not exceed aircraft manufacturers tail wind component figures.

 

Tail wind landings are essentially short field landing/takeoffs.

 

Avoid tail wind landing/take off at high aircraft weights.

 

On second thoughts I have deleted all my advice.

 

Discuss & practice with your instructor.

 

 

[Garfly]

It's a good topic RJW; so straightforward it rarely gets raised.

 

(But when it does you're glad to find you're not the only one wondering.)

 

Here's a recent, relevant "I Learned about Flying From That":

 

I Learned About Flying From That: Hazardous Habits

 

 

 

[hihosland]

On final I do a quick check of GPS ground speed against air speed it gives a indication of tail/head wind at that point in the approach and is a good check that I've chosen the best landing direction.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's illusions and measurable (quantifiable) energy and control difficulties with landing downwind, in varying degrees. A full understanding of all the factors is advisable. Should be taught in conjunction with LOW level flying by a competent instructor. Include wind effects and low level shear. RAAus is WRONG in not including it in the syllabus.