kgwilson Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 IT isn't about not paying landing fees. It is about how we do it. RAAus has obtained our details for Reason A & B (management of our RPC's and registrations, essentially) - but then, in an attempt to curry favour with airports and CAsA - have entered into a commercial arrangement with the Australian Airports Association to disclose our details - without any evidence whatsoever that we actually operated there mind you - to members of that association - who themselves will not say who they are, as their details "are private". Kosher? Hardly. At least AvData (pondscum they may be), publish a list of airports that utilise their services so we can avoid them if desired. FWIW, I already pay $3,600 a year in hangarage and usage fees to a private airfield operator. I am also a Central Coast Council ratepayer, however, because I am not based at Warnervale, am classed as Itinerant, so my landing fees for 1 hour of circuits there come to $150. Plus another $110 just for the privilege of refuelling (Not even counting the fuel - that's extra again). So $260 just to fly a few laps and refuel in a Sub-600Kg machine. And they aren't the most expensive places I've found either...It is cheaper for me to fly from Sydney to Morrabbin or Archerfield, fly an hour of circuits there, land, refuel and fly home than it is to fly 10nm to Warnervale and do an hour there... You tell me why it's fair to charge someone to "refuel on Council land" and how I - as an aircraft owner - can "owe" Council for doing so but if I refuel my tinny on its' trailer on the footpath I can do so for nix...Yep, definitely time to get out of flying. ? Councils charging exorbitant fees are doing themselves a disservice in the long run. Those who approve the fees are people who know nothing about aviation and have the erroneous view that aircraft owners are all wealthy people whereas boat owners are not. Pilots will stop going there eventually and they will wonder why. Our aerodrome is leased from Crown Lands by the hangar owners who manage it. We pay $1550.00 a year which covers lease, insurance, rates, maintenance, cones & markers, toilets, fencing, gates etc & puts a bit away for runway resealing every 10 years or so. Each aircraft owner pays $200 usage fee annually which goes towards runway, taxiway & parking area maintenance. All the work to maintain the aerodrome is done by a few volunteers. We have an honesty box for landing fees of $5.00 per ultralight & $10.00 per GA. Some don't pay which I find a bit insulting given the cost & effort we put in to provide the aerodrome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NT5224 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Hi Folks! I don't know how Av data works. I've only ever once flown into a strip with landing Fees and on that occasion I handed over a tattered blue note. But down in the big smoke (Darwin) and other regional towns, councils have a parking app that allows you to pay for parking with a mobile device. Its initially frustrating to set up, but thereafter works quite well (assuming you have a mobile device). It allows you to pay a fee for using a facility and keeps a record of that. Is Avdata like that? If not why not have a landing fees app based loosely on the parking fees app administered by RAA, or somebody else. It would simplify things lots... Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 why not have a landing fees app based loosely on the parking fees app administered by RAA, or somebody else. It would simplify things lots... Because the whole landing fees saga is one of Big Business seeing an opportunity to gouge money from the community without giving anything back in return. Do you think that the Australian Airports Association is a benevolent organisation having the aim to promote private aviation? It's not. It's aim is to smother private aviation in favour of the Big Boys. If RAAus administered landing fees, it would weaken the control the Big Boys have over airport operators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NT5224 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 IT isn't about not paying landing fees. It is about how we do it. RAAus has obtained our details for Reason A & B (management of our RPC's and registrations, essentially) - but then, in an attempt to curry favour with airports and CAsA - have entered into a commercial arrangement with the Australian Airports Association to disclose our details - without any evidence whatsoever that we actually operated there mind you - to members of that association - who themselves will not say who they are, as their details "are private". Kosher? Hardly. At least AvData (pondscum they may be), publish a list of airports that utilise their services so we can avoid them if desired. FWIW, I already pay $3,600 a year in hangarage and usage fees to a private airfield operator. I am also a Central Coast Council ratepayer, however, because I am not based at Warnervale, am classed as Itinerant, so my landing fees for 1 hour of circuits there come to $150. Plus another $110 just for the privilege of refuelling (Not even counting the fuel - that's extra again). So $260 just to fly a few laps and refuel in a Sub-600Kg machine. And they aren't the most expensive places I've found either...It is cheaper for me to fly from Sydney to Morrabbin or Archerfield, fly an hour of circuits there, land, refuel and fly home than it is to fly 10nm to Warnervale and do an hour there... You tell me why it's fair to charge someone to "refuel on Council land" and how I - as an aircraft owner - can "owe" Council for doing so but if I refuel my tinny on its' trailer on the footpath I can do so for nix...Yep, definitely time to get out of flying. ? This is awful! I sympathise. But surely there are ways around it? Cant you fly from a strip that doesn't have fees? I currently don't hold an ASIC (not through want of trying!) and have managed to pick my way across the country avoiding landing fields that require it. Surely the same must be possible to avoid high landing fees... perhaps somebody on here can collate a list of fee-free landing strips? I would be quite happy to have other aviators fly from and hangar at my own strip for minimal or no cost -as long as they did so at their own risk. I'd appreciate the company. But unfortunately Im too far away from anywhere for anybody else to want to base themselves here. Dont let the system get you down. Aviation is an extraordinary experience and priviledge, and aviators are extraordinary people. There seems to be growing awareness that GA is being weakened by the increasing associated costs and regulation, and so hopefully important decisions will be made to help re-stimulate the sector. And if grasping local councils and regulators become all too much for you, remember you can always spread your wings and fly north. You'll find a rather more benign aviation environment north of the Tropic of Capricorn. Alan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Well he's saying it's not about the landing fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 NT5244 Careful your letting us Dreamers have hope. I,ll throw the Hummel on a trailer and come and stay awhile. I have had a couple of offers to fly from farm strips but as a new flyer with a untried plane it,s a disaster awaiting. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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