facthunter Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Well spotted. FFS FAT Finger Syndrome.. I'll try an edit. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 The Lord works in mysterious ways. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 Quick, you only have 15 minutes! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 It's already done 5 minutes ago.. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Amend it to 20 Now. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Etc Etc. Over and Out. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 47 minutes ago, facthunter said: OF similarly "Brained" children.. It doesn't take Brains to procreate. There is a fair amount of evidence of the Brain not working at the time. Nev I have long pondered this matter😎 - Seems to me that you malign the brain and its involvement in procreation. Sure the male brain would seemingly be driven, by an unreasoned ( much like the male praying mantis) urge to have its body, join with almost any willing female. Males seem to spend a lot of time displaying their fitness, as a potential mate. So much so it can seem they have lost the focus of their activity. In humans this can be displays of risk taking (a significant contributor to higher (than female) mortality rate, muscular prowess, fighting peers, verbal bravado, etc - for the bulk of which, the brain would seem to be almost absent (as a reasoning organ). Typically males will lose weight, sustain various levels of injury (to the point of death) and in some cases be so exhausted by the effort, that the female looks elsewhere.😜 The female brain??? - now that seems to me to be a far more involved/calculating organ. The female brain is very much more present (than the male) when it comes to procreating. I would suggest that it is she who is chooser of an acceptable mate. The instigator of whatever preamble constitutes courtship. The decider to mate or not (sometimes seemingly on a whim). In certain species, it is she who decides that this is a long term bonding or a meare dalliance. In all of this, the female deludes the male, into thinking it is he, that is the leader/instigator/powerful individual. Romance ????? an artifact of (female) society.🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 47 minutes ago, facthunter said: OF similarly "Brained" children.. It doesn't take Brains to procreate. There is a fair amount of evidence of the Brain not working at the time. Nev I have long pondered this matter😎 - Seems to me that you malign the brain and its involvement in procreation. Sure the male brain would seemingly be driven, by an unreasoned ( much like the male praying mantis) urge to have its body, join with almost any willing female. Males seem to spend a lot of time displaying their fitness, as a potential mate. So much so it can seem they have lost the focus of their activity. In humans this can be displays of risk taking (a significant contributor to higher (than female) mortality rate, muscular prowess, fighting peers, verbal bravado, etc - for the bulk of which, the brain would seem to be almost absent (as a reasoning organ). Typically males will lose weight, sustain various levels of injury (to the point of death) and in some cases be so exhausted by the effort, that the female looks elsewhere.😜 The female brain??? - now that seems to me to be a far more involved/calculating organ. The female brain is very much more present (than the male) when it comes to procreating. I would suggest that it is she who is chooser of an acceptable mate. The instigator of whatever preamble constitutes courtship. The decider to mate or not (sometimes seemingly on a whim). In certain species, it is she who decides that this is a long term bonding or a meare dalliance. In all of this, the female deludes the male, into thinking it is he, that is the leader/instigator/powerful individual. Romance ????? an artifact of (female) society.🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 And so fitting a battery isolator requires no more that the brain capacity of a praying mantis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 No just don't have sex at the same time. or do it in the same state of mind.. The drive to stay alive is very strong IF you can apply it. So is the drive to show off, if you allow it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Pictures and sizes of the SSR. also the heatsink on the back. I like too that you replace the screws with small bolts and all connections are on lugs not those stupid spade connectors 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, Kyle Communications said: Pictures and sizes of the SSR. also the heatsink on the back. I like too that you replace the screws with small bolts and all connections are on lugs not those stupid spade connectors I get that what is good about it is that you have a very low trigger current, which is especially useful if you wanted to trigger it with say a 555 timer or something, or where you have a big boy plane with a panel drawing 25amps and a 170 amp alternator bolted to that Lycoming 0360. But I am talking about ultralights here. The total output of the alternator is 17 amps. That's the total, but all the loads add up to maybe 5 amps through my (described rather than named because I admit I'm guilty of confusing terms) OFF/ON/START switch. But if for some reason I thought that was too heavy a load for that switch (which it isn't), why wouldn't I just use a 35amp automotive relay? That will have a switching current of maybe 200 mA. What is the SSR? 50mA? But it's constantly dumping power. So yes, only 50mA through the switch, but several amps as heat through the heatsink, while the 35amp relay is only losing 200mA total. The original query was about total isolation of the battery. To do that needs something that can handle the cranking current of the starter. Which is either a giant relay (which is why I started the thread since I hated the idea) or a giant switch AKA a battery isolation switch. Gotta keep it simple on an ultralight, especially with only 17 amps to play with 🙂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 The wattage loss is very low even at 10 amps (6 watts max) which would be the most current drawn from a dual efis system and ancillaries. That is only while it is turned on. With semiconductors the limiting factor is the device's junction temperature. The reason I dont like relays is it is drawing all your avionics load current through a spade terminal. I much prefer the screw/boltability of the SSR to take all the load. As a case in point just look how many Rotax regulators end up with burnt out spade terminals on the regulators...I would know of 20 or 30 at least...I dont like them odds...its just not a good thing..Thats why AC43 pretty much specifies ring terminal connections when possible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 (edited) You're still overthinking it for many ultralights. A switch alone can handle the current I'm talking about. What's the voltage drop across a good switch? It's pretty minimal, way less power loss than any superfluous extra wiring and doohickeys you have to add. More power less and more weight. But if your objection is spade terminals, I present, for your edification 🙂 Edited March 12 by danny_galaga 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Spade Terminals - I hear the detractors, understand your points BUT to date I have not had a problem. Could this be that I make a point of ensuring a nice snug/tight fit and wires are well supported (not subject to movement)? If necessary a carefully squeeze of the female spade and both genders are happy😈 I find the nut & bolt, plus a washer (or two) connectors to be fiddly and if this can be exacerbated by an awkward location (eg upside down, behind the panel in a tight corner, ridiculously close spacing, insufficient bolt length) it can be pure hell - dropped nuts/washers floating around the bowls of the aircraft, frustreated time spend looking for the same - give me a spade connector every time.😎 I like nut a bolt terminals, where I have good access, need to stack (more than one) ring terminals and have plenty of bolt length to play with. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Basic spade connectors are an automotive invention, and you won't find them in certified aircraft. There's always the chance an unexpected and inadvertent component movement could separate a spade connection. The Japanese auto manufacturers have always led the way with simple superior wiring harness connectors that are sealed with o-rings. Well designed harness connections are always sealed against moisture, dust, chemicals, salt and other detrimental products, and are secured via screwed or other locking arrangements to prevent accidental disconnection. I'd have to opine some heat-shrink on a spade-type connector would provide the simplest and cheapest design for uncertified/experimental light aircraft. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 If the certified aircraft has a Rotax, I think you'll find spade connectors on our friend- the reg/rec 😄 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, onetrack said: Basic .........................................................................................................................................................aircraft. "Basic spade connectors are an automotive invention, and you won't find them in certified aircraft" A lot of what we use in aviation has its origins in the automotive world. The biggest barrier to aviation adopting alternative technologies, is super/over caution /conservatism. Resistance to change is endemic within the light aircraft servicing world and in US manufactures. In my limited experince the Europeans are particularly open to innovation - my last aircraft was metric from nose to tail - my new one has an imperial airframe & a metric engine. ".....the chance an unexpected and inadvertent component movement could separate a spade connection." While this makes sense .. sort of? I am struggling to think of a component that might move in the way suggested. The theoretical component would have to come away from it's mounting/securing system-- unless bady installed this is not going to happen in normal operations -- crash? yes but even if secured with nut/bolts possible to sever/break wire - no further ahead. "The Japanese auto manufacturers have always led the way with simple superior wiring harness connectors that are sealed with o-rings. Well designed harness connections are always sealed against moisture, dust, chemicals, salt and other detrimental products, and are secured via screwed or other locking arrangements to prevent accidental disconnection." Yes I agree, the Japanese make a lot of good stuff. Is a "...simple superior wiring harness connectors that are sealed with o-ring" required within the cockpit/passenger compartment? I suppose it does no harm and if its main purpose, a secure electrical connection, is achieved, the rest is a bonus. "I'd have to opine some heat-shrink on a spade-type connector would provide the simplest and cheapest design for uncertified/experimental light aircraft." I agree and use this technique where appropriate/possible. Unfortunatly doesn't usually work, when joining to a component with integrated spade connectors. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 On 11/03/2024 at 3:33 PM, skippydiesel said: I have long pondered this matter😎 - Seems to me that you malign the brain and its involvement in procreation. Sure the male brain would seemingly be driven, by an unreasoned ( much like the male praying mantis) urge to have its body, join with almost any willing female. Males seem to spend a lot of time displaying their fitness, as a potential mate. So much so it can seem they have lost the focus of their activity. In humans this can be displays of risk taking (a significant contributor to higher (than female) mortality rate, muscular prowess, fighting peers, verbal bravado, etc - for the bulk of which, the brain would seem to be almost absent (as a reasoning organ). Typically males will lose weight, sustain various levels of injury (to the point of death) and in some cases be so exhausted by the effort, that the female looks elsewhere.😜 The female brain??? - now that seems to me to be a far more involved/calculating organ. The female brain is very much more present (than the male) when it comes to procreating. I would suggest that it is she who is chooser of an acceptable mate. The instigator of whatever preamble constitutes courtship. The decider to mate or not (sometimes seemingly on a whim). In certain species, it is she who decides that this is a long term bonding or a meare dalliance. In all of this, the female deludes the male, into thinking it is he, that is the leader/instigator/powerful individual. Romance ????? an artifact of (female) society.🤣 This link provides an insight to the male and female brain... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 I finally had the title changed to the correct wording so as not to continue any confusion 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) Saw something like this in the boot of a "muscle car with rear mounted battery :- Manual reset - certainly don't want an auto reset (also available) in an aircraft that might be heading towards a fire situation. Removes the need for any sort of manual switching system - less weight/complexity Various brands out there. In this type/shape. price seems to range from $14 -$70 and they all look pretty much the same (some colour & labeling variation). AMP's from about 30 - 120 The larger photo purports to be a Narva product @ 80 amps (must be a generic photo) PN 55962 Size 74X48 mm (no height listed). I would be intersted in your collective thoughts on this type of battery isolator Edited March 14 by skippydiesel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 Very interesting, but it does circle back to the fact you need a pretty high amperage object to handle the starter motor cranking current if you want to isolate the whole battery. I personally would allow 500 amps cranking current for the Rotax starter. You might get away with say 200 amp but good chance you keep tripping it when trying to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Skippy you wouldnt want to be running any starter motor current through that thing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 How do the solid state ones work. Are they a diode? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 No they are typically FETS..they are a voltage device rather than a current based device. Essentially they work like a switch when you place a voltage onto the gate and the drain and source then conduct. They are still semiconductors but they dont have any gain like a transistor does. I am trying to keep this as simple as I can because this subject is huge now. FETS are almost taking over the world 🙂 They are silicon switch for a better word. FETS are really common now and most of all your solar inverters and your power inverters etc..anything that switches on and off ans fast they are generally FETS now. They can take a crap load of current through them because their "on resistance" is very small. A lot of FETS have resistance across the junction like 0.28 of an ohm when turned on and even less. There is a mininum voltage that they turn on with but there is still a current limit as the junction resistance is not the lowest until the voltage gets to a higher level. There are so many types of FETS now its crazy...infact RF Output devices are commonly FETS now and are used regularly ...and I am talking lots of power. LDMOS type ones are regularly 1.5kw RF out Infact the main RF output device in a Xcom airband radio is a FET 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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