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19 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Hi BrendAn - when I Google "Power Mate" -, I Dont get the regulator you have featured - web site address please.

They went out of production some time ago

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9 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

XCOM powermate  , !

Aircraft Spruce .

Looks similar. 

spacesailor

thats the one

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7 minutes ago, Tasmag said:

They went out of production some time ago

aircraft spruce, as spacey said.

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8 minutes ago, Tasmag said:

They went out of production some time ago

thats a bugger, is there anything else as good that you know of.

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25 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

thats a bugger, is there anything else as good that you know of.

Not that i know of, i found a second-hand one a while ago. They are only 8 amp, but electrically very quiet.

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Posted (edited)

https://www.carmoelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2276

I  know one Bloke who fitted this one with a Lithium Battery, he's had it about a year or so and reports no problems so far

 

One thing that puzzles re: Rotax 912 with Lithium...as far as I know all the Lifepo4 12v batteries have onboard regulation to deal with a motorcycle regulator's output (I've had one on my motorcycle for 5 years now with no trouble...so considering the Rotax 912  uses a motorcycle regulator, shirley there should be no problem?

Edited by Red
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On 03/06/2024 at 11:55 AM, BrendAn said:

i may need to get the starter tested too,   the brush end of the starter is the only part of the system getting warm after winding it over. battery leads stay cold. it is on the cool mornings that it doesn't like to turn over, 

Certainly worth testing, but most of the heat will be at the brush end. Hundreds of amps through carbon brushes is a weak link, resistively speaking.

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Starter brushes are not of ordinary carbon. There's usually copper in them.  Check bearings and that the armature is not polling and the commutator is running true..  Nev

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I think I will have to do a starter rebuild.   Freshly charges 270cca and it is only just winding over fast enough to start this morning and it's a fairly warm day .

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7 hours ago, BrendAn said:

I think I will have to do a starter rebuild.   Freshly charges 270cca and it is only just winding over fast enough to start this morning and it's a fairly warm day .

Sounds like it. As facthunter says, bearings might be shot. Do you know what they source for the starter? It'll be a car or motorbike starter for sure. With luck luck you can get a bush kit for it, if it's that style of starter. If sintered bushes, do this- put the bush on the tip of your finger. Fill it up with motor oil, then quickly clamp down on the top with your thumb and squeeze it. You should see oil bubble through the metal. That gets it nice and lubed 🙂

 

If you estimate you have at least half brushes left, probably best to leave them. 

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The bushes are sintered bronze self lubing and cannot be reamed to size satisfactorily.  Much play and they  will pole the armature to the field pieces and also reduce contact effectiveness of brushes with the commutator. I see I'm overlapping with danny. Check the spring tension of the brushes,  (you can usually adjust it), as well as the contact area  Short brushes may move in the holders too much  for good contact.  Nev

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, danny_galaga said:

Sounds like it. As facthunter says, bearings might be shot. Do you know what they source for the starter? It'll be a car or motorbike starter for sure. With luck luck you can get a bush kit for it, if it's that style of starter. If sintered bushes, do this- put the bush on the tip of your finger. Fill it up with motor oil, then quickly clamp down on the top with your thumb and squeeze it. You should see oil bubble through the metal. That gets it nice and lubed 🙂

 

If you estimate you have at least half brushes left, probably best to leave them. 

I have rebuilt plenty of starters in the past . This thing uses a 1989 corolla starter with jabiru made snout. I can get a new aftermarket starter for $165 and swap the snout over.

Edited by BrendAn
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I beg to differ on reaming. We used to do it all the time on the larger truck starters. Some of them were made so you HAD to ream them. Virtually no small starter will need to be reamed. Whatever the fit, that's how it goes. Some will seem criminally loose, that's just how they are. The worst in cars were Delco Remy and the Ford clap trap starter. Best were Bosch in my opinion 

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The cheap Bosch are cheapened right off. I would  think the Hitachi etc are best , maybe  Reaming a sintered bush seals it over more burnishing it than anything else. You might be able to do it with a diamond tipped small end boring machine if you could hold it.

  I found the Delco Remy alright and some RR cars used it after the war.. The engagement on Autolite (ford) was cruder mechanically and some of it wasn't made to be fixed  easily. (Shades of every thing today). New and swap over a cap is the way to go unless you have an A model Ford that you can get everything for new. these days  I've developed an appreciation of the model T  I never had in the early days. Nev

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there is an assumption by the  mfr that a small lead acid battery will be used , and the internal resistance and charge consumption will be well bounded. This is not the case for modern batteries ! as a result the regulators can over dissipate and go short, which  in turn can short the battery to the stator which in turn results in a fire.

 

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4 hours ago, RFguy said:

there is an assumption by the  mfr that a small lead acid battery will be used , and the internal resistance and charge consumption will be well bounded. This is not the case for modern batteries ! as a result the regulators can over dissipate and go short, which  in turn can short the battery to the stator which in turn results in a fire.

 

i think thats why powermate regulators were fitted. this xair has one and i had 2 582s and a 503 and they all had powermates as well.

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4 hours ago, RFguy said:

there is an assumption by the  mfr that a small lead acid battery will be used , and the internal resistance and charge consumption will be well bounded. This is not the case for modern batteries ! as a result the regulators can over dissipate and go short, which  in turn can short the battery to the stator which in turn results in a fire.

 

whats your opinion on powermate regulators.  

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15 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

Question!.

If " powermate " is not fitted , what is ? .

spacesailor

 

on a jabiru i think a kubota mower regulator used to be what they came with.

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12 hours ago, facthunter said:

Electric supply from a permanent Magnet source causes problems with the  regulation. Most generators /alternators have electrically varied output by. ie Field coils or the rotor .  Nev

It's not a problem with modern regulators. You already pointed it out- they regulate the output (field windings) on a permanent magnet jobby. There's more waste through heat of course from regulating say 20 amps instead of the  4 or 5 of a rotor coil.

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Just now, danny_galaga said:

 

It's not a problem with modern regulators. You already pointed it out- they regulate the output (field windings) on a permanent magnet jobby. There's more waste through heat of course from regulating say 20 amps instead of the  4 or 5 of a rotor coil.

NO, they do not. They do not regulate  " (field windings) on a permanent magnet jobby. "
Permanent magnet alternators do NOT have field windings  ! That's the whole point.

 

Volts in the form of pulses  come out of permanent mag alternators whether  you want them or not. 

Permanent magnet alternator regulators  have two choices

1) Turn on or off the control device so that more or less of the pulses are passed to the battery. In the case where the battery is full and there is no load, the regulator will be turned off, disconnecting the stator windings from the load (battery)

2) Diversion - (short)  load the stator windings. In this case, if the battery is full (no load) , the regulator will  place a short across the windings (with load disconnected) . Max current will flow in the windings. IE the power is diverted through the regulator away from the load (battery)

 

(1) is most common.

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