Zonsen Aero Engines - Rapture Aviation (Adelaide)

[BrendAn]

9 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Why use SILLY terms like "Not Emotionally Invested"?   There's not much NEW technology in a Rotax.  More of a different approach. Part water cooled.  Pressed up crankshaft. Weird oil return system Awful carburettors in a bad position, Expensive Bit's. Nev

And yet despite you constantly pointing out all the design faults they are am extremely reliable and fuel efficient engine.

[RossK]

19 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Why use SILLY terms like "Not Emotionally Invested"?   There's not much NEW technology in a Rotax.  More of a different approach. Part water cooled.  Pressed up crankshaft. Weird oil return system Awful carburettors in a bad position, Expensive Bit's. Nev

All true, but it makes a bucket load of power for it's size, burns little fuel (comparably), will make it's 2000hr TBO with basic maintenance and just works consistantly and reliably.

Take in all the above and it's no wonder it's being copied.

I hope Zonsen do well. We run a couple of industrial aluminium saws sourced from China, they are now 9 years old and have performed flawlessly. 

Edited February 25 by RossK

[johnm]

if Zonsen do good - it can only mean good for any person buying an engine

 

Rotax might start to see any compartive engine ......................... as competition

[BurnieM]

I do not have a problem with Zonsen (previously Zhongshen).

They have produced millions of small motorcycles and are an engine supplier for other motorcycle manufacturers including piaggio.

They appear to have started in 1982 and are a conclomerate of 52? companies with approx 20,000 employees.

 

Aviation engines are a different market where reliability is critical.

I need information in order to make a purchasing decision. Why would you not give it to me?

 

 

 

[Area-51]

12 hours ago, Rapture said:

Zonsen have exceptional engine test facilities at their manufacturing and assembly plant in Chongqing. The majority of their engines have gone through the accelerated testing process required to obtain ASTM approval.  So they’ve already essentially done your test.

That is great to know... now a few independent market end users need to perform the same engine on stick test and publish results. If the results are closely similar to factory, great. If they are wildly contrasting against published manufacturer results then somebody is probably telling fibs, or the test environment inputs are dramatically different.

 

ChongQing is a great city. For a wild experience take a motorcycle taxi across town; first 30sec should be enough time to get the adrenaline pumping 🤣🤣🤣

[Area-51]

13 hours ago, Rapture said:

 

 

 

Edited February 26 by Area-51

[BrendAn]

53 minutes ago, Area-51 said:

That is great to know... now a few independent market end users need to perform the same engine on stick test and publish results. If the results are closely similar to factory, great. If they are wildly contrasting against published manufacturer results then somebody is probably telling fibs, or the test environment inputs are dramatically different.

 

ChongQing is a great city. For a wild experience take a motorcycle taxi across town; first 30sec should be enough time to get the adrenaline pumping 🤣🤣🤣

My father lived there for 9 years. They lived on a hill and when he went on the local bus the driver used to  coast down the hills in angel gear.😁

 

Edited February 26 by BrendAn

[onetrack]

Quote

...the local bus the driver used to  coast down the hills in angel gear...

And the same bloke probably assembles Zhonsen engines (or Zongsheng, or whatever name it is, this month),  in his off-hours, when he's not scaring bus passengers out of their wits!

[rodgerc]

If you’re really that keen to find a Rotax alternative, there’s three ship loads of them heading down the east coast, about 160nm east of Hobart at present.
 

Apparently they’re in a celebratory mood letting off a few crackers and sky rockets left over from the year of the snake celebrations. 

[Rapture]

On 26/2/2025 at 10:57 AM, BurnieM said:

I do not have a problem with Zonsen (previously Zhongshen).

They have produced millions of small motorcycles and are an engine supplier for other motorcycle manufacturers including piaggio.

They appear to have started in 1982 and are a conclomerate of 52? companies with approx 20,000 employees.

 

Aviation engines are a different market where reliability is critical.

I need information in order to make a purchasing decision. Why would you not give it to me?

 

 

 

Burnie, it is not possible to give you what you want because the engine is new enough and not prolific enough to be able to furnish you with the data that you want.  You are essentially seeking third party validation of quality and reliability.  That data is not yet available and that has been stated already several times on this thread so continuing to ask for it is not going to change the fact that the information that you seek is not yet available. Please ask again in 2 years and we should have the independent validation that you seek.

We are aware that sales will likely be slow until such validation is available.  I think we probably all agree that an initiative by the manufacturer to incentivize some customers to take the engines, build time on them quickly and get the third party validation of quality, safety, reliability and customer support so that potential customers need not fear that element of the buy decision.

[BurnieM]

I understand what I am asking for.

 

I am definintely pushing for factory involvement in this entry into the Australian market.

I note a lack of factory involvement in the US market also.

Without the factory being seen to support their product in our market people will just wait.

 

How about a public statement from the factory about how they view the Australian market ?

 

 

Edited February 27 by BurnieM

[Rapture]

53 minutes ago, BurnieM said:

I understand what I am asking for.

 

I am definintely pushing for factory involvement in this entry into the Australian market.

I note a lack of factory involvement in the US market also.

Without the factory being seen to support their product in our market people will just wait.

 

How about a public statement from the factory about how they view the Australian market ?

 

 

Thanks Burnie.  You have hit the nail on the head with that statement.  Zonsen have indicated to me that they consider the Australian market to be an important one.  But as you say, consumers in Australia like to see OEM support for their products in Australia and there are certainly ways that such support can be demonstrated.

[landrover]

We approached Zonsen in 23 to be Australia agent as we already import stock out of china.

We wanted 5 units CA500 100 hp landed for $18 k + our commission  first up to get them out to market.

Then 10 units for $20 k as the aviation market is very small in Australia.

The engine needs to be 10 k cheaper than rotax and you will sell them.

$5k to $7 cheaper why would people bother on unproven engine.

That was our plan.

But with 10 years experience trading with China I knew there production costs.

Aviation being my passion almost stuck a deal but it would be low unit sales then we could not supply backup support and maintenance and get units and hours on them.

Good luck Rapture 

 

[BurnieM]

https://www.facebook.com/AeroZonsen

 

[Thruster88]

Let's take a look back at the wonderful moments of the first day at

#AEROFriedrichshafen2025!

Spotlight: CA550TI, CA510I, CA510 &CA500I engines redefine aviation efficiency with high power-to-weight ratios & ultra-low fuel consumption! Integrated with electronic fuel injection, they dominate the light aviation sector & are trusted across Europe, Americas,and Southeast Asia. Visit B1-403 to explore our high-performance solutions!

 

From their Facebook post today. Something not quite right there, or are they talking about Rotax?

[BurnieM]

Perhap they are referring to the engine design/type.

Zonsen certainly do not have the (aviation) engine volume to make this statement about their own aviation products.

 

Could be limited marketing noose accidentilly making this statement but it does not help their public image when lack of volume and hours is the major issue.

[Red]

No requirement to be truthful when marketing in 21st century,  but that nonsense is a rather amateur example.

A combination of normal commercial bollox and language translation issues perhaps in this case

 

 

 

[Rapture]

Having now spoken with several J160/J230 owners who have retrofitted Rotax engines to their airframes, and also having spoken with several of the individuals/teams that actually undertook the conversions, It is very interesting to note their experiences and also their aircraft’s demonstrated performance with the Rotax installed.  I am not going to repeat them here as the information would be second hand, but it is motivating for us to fit and demonstrate some Zonsen engines in Jabiru airframes.

To that end, we now have a J160 airframe being prepared to have the 110hp Zonsen CA510 that we took to AusFly installed.  Once that combination is flying, we will be able to provide first hand performance figures for the combination.  We also intend to take that aircraft on a demonstration tour to allow flying schools and Jab owners to experience the conversion for themselves.  This will also build hours on the engine in real life operation that together in conjunction with other Zonsen dealers around the world, we can start building reliable data about the reliability of the engines.  It’s a start….

Anyway, here’s a photo of the recipient J160 that is currently undergoing a full restoration with the necessary firewall forward and instrument panel conversion to be undertaken.  Standby for further updates.

 

[BrendAn]

7 minutes ago, Rapture said:

Having now spoken with several J160/J230 owners who have retrofitted Rotax engines to their airframes, and also having spoken with several of the individuals/teams that actually undertook the conversions, It is very interesting to note their experiences and also their aircraft’s demonstrated performance with the Rotax installed.  I am not going to repeat them here as the information would be second hand, but it is motivating for us to fit and demonstrate some Zonsen engines in Jabiru airframes.

To that end, we now have a J160 airframe being prepared to have the 110hp Zonsen CA510 that we took to AusFly installed.  Once that combination is flying, we will be able to provide first hand performance figures for the combination.  We also intend to take that aircraft on a demonstration tour to allow flying schools and Jab owners to experience the conversion for themselves.  This will also build hours on the engine in real life operation that together in conjunction with other Zonsen dealers around the world, we can start building reliable data about the reliability of the engines.  It’s a start….

Anyway, here’s a photo of the recipient J160 that is currently undergoing a full restoration with the necessary firewall forward and instrument panel conversion to be undertaken.  Standby for further updates.

 

is it a certified engine

[Rapture]

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

is it a certified engine

It is not certified but it is ASTM compliant and comes with the statement from Zonsen if requested. Under the MARAP framework, we will complete the installation and seek approval under the MARAP framework to maintain it as a S-LSA, allowing continued use in commercial operations, i.e for flying school duties.  If other Jab owners want to do the same thing, approvals are on a one-off basis so each installation must go through the same approval process.

[BrendAn]

40 minutes ago, Rapture said:

It is not certified but it is ASTM compliant and comes with the statement from Zonsen if requested. Under the MARAP framework, we will complete the installation and seek approval under the MARAP framework to maintain it as a S-LSA, allowing continued use in commercial operations, i.e for flying school duties.  If other Jab owners want to do the same thing, approvals are on a one-off basis so each installation must go through the same approval process.

good luck with it . looking forward to seeing the demo flying. 

[Rapture]

For those that didn't make it to AusFly, here is a photo of our 110hp CA510 minutes after we opened the crate which had only arrived in Adelaide a few days before the event and we were that busy that we didn't open the crate until we had arrived at Wentworth. Luckily, it was all there and in excellent condition. The fine specimen of a man watching over it is Milton, owner of the yellow Lightning Bug who by the way is selling that Bug to help fund getting the next Bug flying with a Zonsen engine in it.

The boxes that came with the engine contained the accessories that we ordered with it such as mounting rubbers, etc.

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 03:40 AM by Rapture
Added image

[Blueadventures]

1 hour ago, Rapture said:

For those that didn't make it to AusFly, here is a photo of our 110hp CA510 minutes after we opened the crate which had only arrived in Adelaide a few days before the event and we were that busy that we didn't open the crate until we had arrived at Wentworth. Luckily, it was all there and in excellent condition. The fine specimen of a man watching over it is Milton, owner of the yellow Lightning Bug who by the way is selling that Bug to help fund getting the next Bug flying with a Zonsen engine in it.

The boxes that came with the engine contained the accessories that we ordered with it such as mounting rubbers, etc.

 

 

 

The cylinder fins look turned 90 degrees to the air flow and looks like the coolant jacket extends under the head onto the upper area of the cylinder. very different to the lower hp version I've seen reviews on.  Thanks for post.

[facthunter]

There seems to be  a Major change there. Is that shortening the studs that have been Breaking in the Genuine Motors? Nev.

[Red]

24 minutes ago, facthunter said:

There seems to be  a Major change there. Is that shortening the studs that have been Breaking in the Genuine Motors? Nev.

I haven't heard of an issue with studs breaking on 9 series engines, where did you read that?