FlyingVizsla

Hi Andy, Warm welcome to the forum! Plenty to keep you busy on here. What do you fly? Regards Sue

I can't see a rush to a new organisation, because the majority are "lazy". It is too easy to just pay the renewal for insurance, stick with your bank, keep shopping at that supermarket, renew the phone contract etc.; even if there is a better deal on offer. My husband was going off about the big 4 banks, when I pointed out that he could very easily take his business to any of the alternatives, but he just keeps dealing with 2 of the four Banks and paying the higher interest, and complaining about the $49 annual fee on a credit card he uses 3 to 4 times a year and 0.004% interest on savings. When it comes to RAA - he "just wants to fly" and can't be bothered. So unless there is a cataclysmic event, guys like him will continue with what they're used to. Unless they can offer something more than CASA in GA registration, then I can't see anything much for me. I just wish they would spell out what they are intending to offer, even if it isn't yet set in cement, so I can start planning, researching, to decide which way to go.

Hi Folks, After much delay, I am ready to start scanning all the old AUF/ RAA magazines up until Sport Pilot started. I have turned over all our sheds, houses, boxes etc and am missing the following:- Everything prior to 1992 (there must be a box I have missed ...) 1992 Vol 2 - No.s 1 to 7, 9, 11 & 12 (that box again ..... ) 1993 Vol 3 - No.s 2 (Feb), 4 (Mar), 6 (June) 1997 Vol 7 - No. 8 (Aug) 2000 Vol 10 - No.9 (Oct) I have everything else to 2016. If you have any of these, and could loan them to me, I would be grateful. Please PM me. The finished high resolution scan will be provided to RAA to be put up on their website. I am about to start a test run of one year, using various software etc. The RAA web developers suggested Abbyy Fine Reader, which is available as a free trial, one magazine per file, one year per folder. If you know of any better software to use with a Brother MFC-J65200W A3 scanner, speak now! The main outcome I am hoping for is a searchable pdf, preferably for the entire library of magazines. One search to find all mentions, including tags (where a photo is of 10-1234, but no caption). I envisage people will be able to search for "Scout" and have a link to all the photos, text & adverts from 1980's to 2011. Sue

This new organisation is going to be "more GA" than RAA. Until they disclose more I can only go on what they say on their Facebook page. The intention appears to be the lower end of GA, <1,500 or 7,500kg including helicopters with vague references to ultralights. I doubt they can register anything that CASA or RAA have declined to register. There is a niche market for the minimum aircraft category (mostly 95-10) and their pilots to re-form the old AUF and approach CASA for approval. There's about 200 95-10's left on the RAA register (that figure is out of date). I would suggest the easiest, cheapest way to do this is to not offer training (just recognise the RAA certificate and BFR), little technical (only accept aircraft already accepted on the RAA register), no magazine and all correspondence by electronic means (voting, info, payment), no pilot insurance and staffed by volunteers. The Ops manual can then limit usage to what they want to be restricted to - height, distance, etc.

The AUF (now RAA) aero club I was with had an old GA mustering pilot as instructor. He took his students through all the mustering, low level stuff in the club's Lightwing because most of them were country lads who would end up either mustering, fence & bore checking on the family property or would end up being pressured to do so by employers or mates. His thinking - better they had a brief lesson in what can go wrong, than try to learn "on the job", because even if he told them not to do it - they would. I did a refresher with him. My C152 did muster until CASA changed the rules - if you muster on a property, not your own, then you must have a CPL & mustering endo. So can't stray over the fence and muster Uncle's place too. The John Freeman "Flight at Lower Levels" books (at least 2 I have on the shelves - and Clear Prop has at least one volume) are well worth a read.

No Constitution will be entirely correct, even on its 100th iteration. A Flying Club I belong to adopted the Model Rules - a quorum (the minimum number of members necessary to have a valid meeting) was set at 'the Executive plus one". Over time they created 18 positions held by 6 people and then had to argue was that office titles?, or office bearers? 7 or 19? They offered cheaper rates to members, so people travelled in, joined, learnt and left. More than 75% never came to a meeting and the other 10% scrapped over whether any meetings (and resolutions) were valid. Another Club I was with had 28 (Twenty-Eight!) pages of transitional clauses from the 1986 to 1989 version of the 12 page constitution, with much contradiction and confusion between them. I re-wrote it to 5 pages and restricted changes to it at the AGM with a month's notice in writing. They too, did argue over "at least 21 days notice" to be interpreted as exactly 22 days and directed the Secretary to buy stamps on Friday but not to post until Saturday, but not before Sunday. Explains my grey hair. The old RAA constitution had many amendments put up, some succeeded, some didn't. This illustrates the power of the RAA Members to propose and also to dispose. The whole thing really needed a re-write. It got it, and the majority of the members who voted said it was a step in the right direction. It might not be right, it can be made right-er, but will never be Perfect. It's in; now up to Members to tweak it. Sue

Hi Gary, I remember a number of flying "padres" in Western Qld from my time at Longreach, Charleville, Winton, Boulia, Barcaldine areas 1980's - early 2000's. The Flying Nun, Outback Aerial Mission, the Salvation Army and some independent types. A real lifeline for many isolated people. One used my plane for a little while doing Birdsville Boulia area. I don't think I met you, but be assured we did appreciate the visits. Welcome aboard Sue

Welcome Chris, I also had a flying Dad, but didn't get my licence until after he died. Once that flying bug gets you, there is no turning back. Enjoy the forum and don't worry about the few who go on about being swamped by GA - they forget that before the AUF/RAA there was only GA. Bundaberg - have you been to Childers? There's a fly-in Breakfast 5 Nov if you are interested. Usually someone there most weekends and Wed morning is a bit of a fly-in smoko for guys from Bundy and surrounds. Do a Nav and bring some bun loaf or biscuits and we'll supply the mug & coffee. Sue

Kasper, You are talking about a different scenario. If the assets (eg building, computers) are being sold to settle the debts owed by RAA and some are bought by a private company, that is a different kettle of fish to the assets of RAA being offered to ELAAA. Consider this scenario - RAA is being wound up by the members as it is going broke (not yet insolvent), the building is sold for $1mil, $800k is used to settle all debts, then the remaining $200k is (under the constitution) given to another like minded Not for Profit, as decided by Members. ELAAA or Blogg's Architects or a private investor can purchase it, but they pay $1mil for it. It is not given to them.

Yenn, ELAAA might be saying RAA is the same as they are, but they are different animals. ELAAA is a Pty Ltd is a private company with shareholders and it has customers, RAA Ltd is a Not for Profit - limited liability Company with Members. The RAA constitution sets out the members' rights, and they are more than just voting in some Board members and copping whatever comes. The members have power over the Board and don't need to wait 4 years to vote them out. A Private Company is not required to tell you about their constitution or voting, finances or how they are running the business. They can choose what services to offer and leave the more difficult and expensive ones to someone else. It is there to make a Profit for their Shareholders.

ELAAA Pty Ltd cannot be granted the remains of RAA's assets. The RAA constitution is clear that it can only go to a like-minded Not for Profit, decided by the members:- "Winding up 63 Surplus assets not to be distributed to Members If the Company is wound up, any surplus assets must not be distributed to a Member or a former Member of the Company, unless that Member or former Member is a not-for-profit entity described in Clause 64.1. 64 Distribution of surplus assets 64.1 Subject to the Corporations Act and any other applicable Act, and any court order, any surplus assets that remain after the Company is wound up must be distributed to one or more not-for-profit entities: (a) with purpose(s) similar to, or inclusive of, the purpose(s) in Clause 6, and (b) which has governing documents which prohibit the entity from being carried on for the profit or gain of individual members, and which prohibit the distribution of any surplus assets to its Members to at least the same extent as the Company. 64.2 The decision as to the entity or entities to be given the surplus assets must be made by a special resolution of Members at or before the time of winding up. If the Members do not make this decision, the Company may apply to the Supreme Court to make this decision." ELAAA might pick up some business if RAA collapses but they won't be picking up their assets. Another Not for Profit could establish itself quickly before hand, pick up the ashes, and intellectual property (manuals etc) and get their approvals together in the future. However, I don't see RAA collapsing any time soon.

This is a valid issue to consider for pilots. If RAA decided to not offer a service to a segment of the recreation industry, maybe because it was complicated to do so, even though their 'charter' or agreements allowed them to offer that service, and they were a monopoly or duopoly; is there any remedy? With another player about to leap in the sand pit this may not be such an issue. If one, or both, refused to register or licence; is there anything that can be done? There are many examples - hypothetically - say ELAAA decide not to accept 95-10 registrations because that market segment is too small and difficult, but they are 25% of what RAA charges - could they be 'forced' to accept applications; or is price / cost not sufficient grounds to prove a denial of supply? If RAA declines to take a particular member, who cannot legally fly without being a member, is there any way around it, particularly if RAA was the only organisation that could offer that membership? I know there will be members who get asked to leave for disciplinary reasons connected with their unsafe flying, but here I am thinking of other issues - could be anything ... accusing the Board of cooking the books, a personality clash with the Grand Poohbah; all unconnected with flying and aircraft maintenance, but ending with the member expelled.

Hi Barrie, From the menu choose FORUMS - go to JUST LANDED - top right is POST NEW THREAD. Click on that and start writing. Sue

That is not true. Members can, and do, take action - think back to the Extraordinary Meeting in Canberra. They can put up resolutions to be voted on at meetings, and history shows the Board have not always got their way. They could have lost the "Constitution" vote and had to continue as an Incorporated body with the old, flawed, constitution, but it was the Members who had the say. The Board only had their own personal votes - 13 against 10,000. Members can put pressure on their Representatives to resign if they are not putting their interests first - that has happened. They must disclose their finances to the membership each year, if Directors are to be paid, the membership has to vote on it. People like me give the books a good going over for members to discuss and challenge if they want. What you state is more true of the new organisation (with the exception of voting). "You cannot not be involved with voting on policy, politics, documents, finances etc. They will only report to you not involve you in operational matters or strategic planning that affects every member." Insert "customer" for member. You don't expect, and can't have, a say in the running of a private company (for example) BP, you just rock up to the bowser and pay for the fuel. If BP decided not to supply AVGAS you can't force an extraordinary meeting or move a motion or lobby your elected BP board member. You have to live with it. In recreational aviation we have become used to dealing with Clubs (not for profit) - RAA, Aero Clubs, etc. A Private Company is a new experience.

Hey Flying Dog - we didn't get a notification because he did a Cut & Paste, rather than a "Quote" So far I have not been able to comment on anything other than what I know from their Facebook page (no web page and no promised announcement). By definition a Pty Ltd has less than 50 shareholders (owners) - they may only have 5 - and their business (constitution, voting, minutes, finance etc) is private. As a customer they don't need to consult you about Tech Manuals or who is being paid what (unless they chose to). KP and at least one other appeared to me to have an agenda with their comments which got me looking further - I don't go on Facebook - but this got me looking there. I was a little concerned about some of the language there about RAA as "the bad boy", and I know some personalities have axes to grind, so I sincerely hope we are not going to war. For people who think the new organisation is going to magically turn back the clock to an easier time of "do what ever you think is OK" or "just use common sense" - will find it's like ditching one sister for the other - you still have the same Mother-in-Law (CASA). I can bet there will be a robust Tech /Ops / Safety Manual and the private company can decide not to have difficult aircraft and people as customers. They can save money by not insuring customers or printing a magazine. They should be able to get on with the job because the Managing Directors are there by mutual agreement (they liked each other enough to form a company) whereas the members of RAA have voted in a disparate lot with a wide range of views and agendas. We will have to wait for the new kid on the block to announce what they are about. Sue

Hi Paul, Welcome to the forum! There's plenty to see & chat about. Check out the items in the menu - lots of people miss the fantastic amount of gear in there and only focus on the forums. If you look, there are tutorials, aviation apps etc that the younger ones might enjoy - decoding your weather, trip planning - learning and getting involved in flying. Sue

I just asked the Better Half - he can't remember anything before the current CAGIT, however I think there was an earlier CAGIT that ran out of room for names. It was retired in favour of this long tall one. I can't remember a "trophy" before CAGIT. I will have a look through the old magazines when I get home.

Come And Get It Trophy - RAAus has it, each pilot that Comes and Gets It gets to have his/her name engraved on it. There are rules about distances (so you can't just hand it around) and Dexter Burkhill keeps track of it. See the latest location in Oct 2016 Sport Pilot. It lingered long up north of NT.

From their facebook page (bad spelling in theirs):- the following information is for public disemination now. ELAAA Pty Ltd Rick PARKS CEO, Myles BRIETKREUTZ Managing Director, Keith PAGE Managing Director and Kevin PATTERSON Managing Director.

From their facebook page: the following information is for public disemination now. ELAAA Pty Ltd Rick PARKS CEO, Myles BRIETKREUTZ Managing Director, Keith PAGE Managing Director and Kevin PATTERSON Managing Director. More info promised to come today.... ELAAA | Facebook ELAAA is a Pty Ltd company - a private company with less than 50 shareholders (owners). The people who join will be "clients" not "members" as we currently think of ourselves with RAA. The decisions and voting will be restricted to those few owners. Might suit people like my darling who wishes "they would just get on with it so I can fly" and does not want to be involved with voting. politics, commenting on policy, documents, finances etc.

Michael Monck discusses some of these issues in Sport Pilot Oct 2016 p.5 Chairman's Report - The Organisation It Should Be. Download and read.

Hi Bd, Welcome aboard! Most here are Australian so the discussions are mainly about getting Australian Recreational Certificate, Recreational Pilot or Private Pilot Licence. There are some from the USA and some Australians who have gained US qualifications on here too. So if you have any questions, ask away. As you come from Savannah - have a look at the plane of the same name - it is very popular on this forum and being built around the world. Welcome & good luck. Sue

I downloaded October 2016 from here https://www.raa.asn.au/storage/62-october-2016-w-1.pdf I got there from here Sport Pilot Magazine - RAAus Have given up on downloading from issu because the download option kept disappearing even when I was logged in.

Welcome Henry, Good to have you contributing! Sorry about the weather - it has been so good in Qld that we forget its too damp or windy elsewhere. How is the CTSW to fly? Sue