Patrick Normoyle

Maj, Lets hope the surgery in Brisbane goes well and they are all reunited very soon. Pat

I think we are all missing the point here, the aircraft didn't run out of fuel, the pilot did, he made the calculation, filled the desired amount of fuel, made some form of check on quantity and quality, compared all this against his intentions either in his head or on paper, then committed aviation. Regardless of the type, PA28, C180, Drifter, J170, B747 or A320, the aircraft dosen't run out of fuel, the pilot does. Maybe this is a human factors issue, what was going on during the planning / refueling stages ? Training and proficiency as well as recency could be factors. Still this is a human operating a machine, don't blame the tool if you don't know how to use it properly ! I have a CPL, i fly my drifter / Fisher Mk1 as often as i can, and i have been in ATC now for 8 years and before that 4 years with Qantas, i have seen a pilot taxi for departure and then taxi back when he realized he hadn't put fuel in, i have sent an A320 around from 2nm final because the gear wasn't down, i have seen several aircraft request direct tracking for a fuel shortage / emergency. All pilots, GA, ATPL, RAA, SAAA, Hot air balloon are all Human ( Gyro pilots are plain mad, couragous but mad ), and thus being human, we are prone to making errors, some people above have made great systems to minimise the risk, but there is always a risk, we fly aircraft, therefore there is a risk. Minimise this with good systems, practised routines, AIRMANSHIP and you will be prepared for when something does go wrong. Landing a J170 on a race track successfully was a great piece of airmanship, getting into a position where that became the only option, well that may not have been his finest hour. It may have been a blown fuel hose, a failed fuel pump, a blocked filter or any other possible cause that we all must consider when operating our aircraft. To say RAA pilots are bad because the organisation is needing some change is true for all such organisations, especially aviation types. But to get rid of the dead wood, those who have been with the organisation and in the world of aviation for extensive periods of time have a vast array of experience that should be harnessed and retained for as long as possible. CASA is full of dead wood, it is like the preverbial dead forrest, and some can't see the forrest for the trees, i deal with them regularly. Thankfully, the times they are a changing and with the Security and legislative changes that have been put apon aviation, there is a great deal of new staff at CASA, they are trained and gaining experience in the field everyday, but they too are human and as such open to error. Airmanship is the best defence we have to keeping those risks at a minimum, be as good a pilot as you can, instill that in your pilot friends, discourage / report poor / wrong behaviour when you see it. Don't think you know it all, be open to hearing a new perspective and offering yours where you feel it warranted, when flying always remember to prepare for the unexpected and never think you are just "That Lucky". I know the Savanah Bingo pilot, his partner and their son, i am glad they are all ok ( injuries repair, death is final ), i never thought he would make a decission as poor as this one as a pilot, i think he will have a lot of hard questions to answer when the dust has settled. As for the Jab pilot, i congratulate you on a great forced landing and hope you have either rectified the problem or have plans to alter you preflight / inflight fuel management systems to ensure you don't put yourself in this position again. As for our image as aviators, we can only demonstrate our desired image through our actual performance, so get out there and go fly your aircraft in such a manner as is desired and also required by the requirements ( CASA and RAA ), there are always cowboys and poor performers in every field, GA, Airline, RAA etc.

I think i have uploaded a recent photo of my little lady !

This is i fear a loosing battle, we can get an exemption to operate in CTR D and CTA D but it is a very long and drawn out process with CASA, it is only for a Certified aircraft with a Certified engine and operated by day by a pilot with a CURRENT PPL or better. You must give CASA 28 days advance notice and expect to be acked a bunch of additional questions and to provide evidence of your qualifications. I have done this a few times now, in Mackay, Darwin, Cairns, it can be done but it is very time consuming, also it is for a one off, you have to apply every time you want to go in. The first time is always the hardest, after that it gets easier. Tony from CASA was very helpful ( don't know his last name ) but he has moved onto greener pastures. I understood that RAA schools could train in CTA D and CTR D but that was all, i didn't think you could hire and fly from there unless it was for training / BFR or other activities under supervision ? I agree there are several places where it should be multi-user even with ATC. At Mackay for example, they have a Skyfox Gazelle with VH rego that operates in the class D all day long, the beast does 40 kts on the ground on final into a stiff sea breaze, ae E170 or B737 can come back to about 120 kts but they are hanging onto it very loosly and have almost no margin, and to go around from that would have you shit your shorts in a big way. This is one of many reasons why RAA aircraft are not allowed in. Also, there is alot of ignorance on CASA's side as to the level of proficiency and excellent training afforded many RAA pilots by our CFI etc, but also there is alot of ignorance within our ranks of pilots that make it difficult for CASA to say let everyone play in the sand pit together. Unfortunately a line had to be drawn and we were the big looser. I feel for the guys in the plastic fantastic's, their aircraft are capable of mixing it with most light GA types and they would prefer the better prepared surfaces i'm sure, but they have to use rougher strips. I know this is an area currently being worked on by our board and tech staff, we have to be patient ( i don't do that very well myself ).

i'll talk to someone who doesn't have a plane but wants one, but talking to someone who dosen't have or want one, well there's something to be said about brick walls. safe flying, if i can get away from work i'll be tearing it up this week. Anyone want to be an Air Traffic Controller, there are several places in Adelaide and across the country.

What video camera did you use to shoot this ?

I agree, very nifty, and no pax seat for the anoying voice from behind, just get lost in the big blue i say, a real "Boy's Toy"

SkyDancer, nice red drifter by the way. As per your question, AIP requires the wind as a mean observed to be reported and if there is significant crosswind then it is reported as the max as that would be the most significant, so if a runway is typically used by light GA or RPT then we would include any crosswind over 8kts, 10 and 12 for Jets and Military. Pilots want to know the average conditions and then anything else exceptional, crosswind or downwind. Jets get a report of actual current conditions with their landing clearance as this is their most critical area, they are literally hanging on the wind in a configuration that has maximum drag and a very high inertia, ofter we will give them a mid field wind if it is significantly different to the threshold. My drifter / Fisher MK1 is in SA and flying happily away from Aldinga. I hope you win the argument.

Arthur, thanks for the open and honest post regarding the incident, so many times pride gets in the way of the truth and the real safety issue goes by the way. I hope you can get your girl up and running very soon. As for the welding, i would have thought that any crack would have been best replaced and not patched with a fill weld, there is no way of checking where the cracks extend to, how long they have been there and to what extent corrosion has taken it's toll. Also, had the area been heat treated to harden the material after welding ? If you do find out who welded the crack ( if that is what happened ) you know where to shove the broken axel ! ! !

Just saw the video on you tube, very nice, if it could take my weight, i'd love to have a play with the little girl. ! Nice and light by the looks..

did it get wet and shrink ? Looks great though, if the wings come off you could trailer her in a 6 x 4, almost ! !

Kumarina Pub, they have a strip out back, a pub and caravan, showers, they have fuel for cars and with enough notice they can organise Avgas. RWY 27 / 09, at 24 41 s 119 36 east on the Meekatharra WAC, 1000m long hard clay / gravel.

Contry kid, i don't work for the airlines directly anymore, too much hard work. I am an Air Traffic Controller at Adelaide Tower, government job, and no stress, just a bunch of retirees working as managers there, we have 1 manager to 6 staff, that is the only real hastle. Great job and fantastic pay. Newman is in the middle of absolutly no where, but i loved my 4 years there, most of the people are true contry folk, honest and friendly. I got my own strip built by some of the mine fellow and their D10 graders from BHP, cost me a carton of Bundy cans and a carton of Crown larger, bet deal ever.

Country Kid, yep Newman WA, up in the pilbara, i was lucky to be working for Ansett at the time ( i bet no one else says that ), anyway, i flew to Brisbane vis a work conference in sydney, i boxed up my parts into 4 wooden boxes, Wayne and i drove them to brisbane airport and i air freighted them to Newman all the way from Brisbane, $450.00 total, thats what i call staff discount. Normally it would cost about $5000 or more, especially the fuselage tube box, 6.5m long. But hey i got it there. I found ordering stuff in bulk orders, eg nuts and bolts and other bits was always good. Yes, the bubble canopy is a great idea, mine tilts forward on hinges with gas struts to hold it into place, i got the idea from Andy at Lismore, he did the mould for me and got me a copy of his hinges, the rest i worked myself. He helped with the nose mould and the hinge brackets. I am 6 foot 2 inch tall, so unless you are a runt, you will need a flip-top lid like mine, but it is still a tight fit under the top for my head. But it is really comfortable, and the view is perfect, i can just wear sunglasses, the canopy is tinted ( just a little ) but i flew in light rain last week and it was just awesome, normally it hurts like all hell, little needles hitting your face at 100km/h. The canopies are very prone to cracking, so i fibreglassed the entire circumference on both sides, about an inch up the sides and especially around the front and at the back where there is the greatest bending / jaring forces. You may not need one for WA, where it is warm and dry, but you may like one down the track.

Country Kid, I built mine from a kit from Wayne Fisher, he used to work at Boonah in the Factory with Jim Fenton making the Aust Flight ones, there isn't anything he does not know about drifters. They are easy to build, strip down and rebuild, basic tools is all that is needed. The mentor idea ( who ever posted that is Brilliant ) is perfect, i found it very hard as there is no support group and Wayne is often very busy and i am not know for my patients ! I built mine in Newman, so everything had to be freighted in, thankfully i managed the roadhouse there and worked for the airlines as well, so i could get anything in, just had to wait for it. I have done heaps of mods to mine, the bubble canopy is excellent, i have done 33.5 hours with it installed, and 420 hours before that, i would recomend installing one of these, also, get some turf glide tyres if you intend doing any beach landings, they have an extra wide foot print and at 10 psi they are just great. If you have any questions just drop me a line, my email is [email protected] , happy to chat anytime. Good luck in your search, keep us all informed. Once you have flown in a drifter any other aircraft is just a PLANE, a Drifter is an experience. If you are into drooling, have a look at the Leda Aircam, google it, when i win lotto, i am getting a couple of them..

Sounds like you lads are getting back into things, only wish i could have been there for the Lakeside fly-in, what a perfect spot, they don't get any better than that, the same with Heathrow, Ian and Julie make the worlds greatest hosts, if you need / want to overnight, that's the place i'd pick. I tried to get from Aldinga to Rowland Flat Sun morning ( yesterday ) for the fly-in but got rained / low clouded out, i miss North QLD weather. I might try for the toy run out of Truro Flat at the end of the month, fingers crossed for that one. Safe flying up north and hopefully i will get parolled or maybe a day release for a visit.

Doors, roof, walls, what are they ? just dead weight or something to ruin the great view.

I have a Fisher Mk1 and had the same problem, being 6"2' dosent help, i tried ducking out of the air flow enough to make clear transmissions, now i am in a colder area, i have installed a clear canopy that goes over my head and it works a treat, no wind noise at all.

Winsor68, i did a similar flight, left home at YLAK at sparrow's fart, down the coast, over the harbour and then into Mackay for a morning shift. Afterwards ( 2pm local ) i flew out to Marian and said hello, the boys there are typical QLD'ers ( of which i call myself ), Warren and family with Steve next door, you don't find gems like that often enough. I tell you, i am missing it right now, working my arse off and the average temps are 8 - 16 deg C, and at the moment driving rain and high winds, i miss the 36 deg C and 90% humidity. If you get a chance, check out Iann Wells at Banana Pocket, hard to find but another great bloke, his misses Julie is a great sort also, they are true pioneers of the Aviation world, also YLAK is a good spot to go to, but be sure to get a good brief from Doug before trying that field, short final on the uphil strip with downwind and cross wind has a trick too it. Watch out for the high tension power lines too. So sorry i didn't get to meet you when i was there. Pat

That was me, i came in from Lakeside Airpark YLAK, there were two of us there for the opening, one white one and my purple and yellow ( it looks better than it sounds ), the Aust Flight one stayed a few days as it was uncomfortable getting out due to the weather. I braved the turbulance and down drafts to get my little girl home again.

Rumby, I built a 49/51% kit from Wayne, and it is just AWESOME, as good as the Aust Flite ones, but with the ability to make your own modifications these are fantastic. I have the 582 Blue top driving a 4 blade brolga prop, if you have the money you can even go the 912 ( i would if i could do it all over again ). These are great and very versatile aircraft with lots of forgivness. Two things you should know before getting one, if you are always in a hurry then maybe think of something else to buy, if you live in a typically poor weather climate area, have a good think. Otherwise, this is what you can brag about, short takeoff and landing on most surfaces ( soft sand as well ), rough strips are ok, incredible views, great stability, and very economical ( i get about 17L/hour from my 582 ). To build the kit all you need is some space ( a single car garage will do ) a work bench, basic home handyman tools, a compressor and pneumatic riviter will come in very handy, a swaging tool ( for crimping cables ) and that is about it. The paperwork Wayne gives you is more than enough, but more over his extent of knowledge is unsurpassed by anyone, he knows how to fix it, make it or install it on any Drifter type. Remember he is basically a one man show and surprisingly he has a life so sometimes he might be hard to get or busy as all, so be patient, his after sales support is fantastic. Some optional extras i would highly recomend, 912ULS ( if you have the money, otherwise the 582 ), get dual controls and two seats, the long range main tank ( 65L ) no need for a belly tank, the longer pod and ceconite tail coverings. I have a Skydat GX1 main display, GPS and a few other guages, get a good DEKA Gel resin fibre battery ( Australian made ), i got after market hydraulic disc brakes ( the ones usually supplied are ok, but on concrete or asphalt you may struggle to hold still ), if you are not far from Lismore, make the time ( with a call in advance ) and get in to see him, Wayne is not full of bells and whistles, but there isn't anything he does not know about Drifters. You can choose wing and tail colours and paterns, he makes them there on the site. I will never get rid of mine, your first build is much like your first love ( you'll never forget her ). I built mine in Western Australia, the far north remote areas, then i moved to Melbourne and then to North QLD, one thing i found is that the cold really gets you, Melbourne did it for me. Unfortunatly, i am in Adelaide with a similar problem, cold cold cold, i have purchased a Robinson R44 canopy and am fitting it to my aircraft, as i am a bigger than normal size, i am hinging it and putting in gas struts to lift it and hold it in place. I have some contact details if you want to try and do this also, it's a bit of work, but will be well worth the effort, and then you are out of the breeze ! Good luck and hopefully welcome to the Drifter / Fisher club.

The other option to GA Lite might be to have all aircraft over 60kts crz speed to be regd. VH in the experimental catagory ? We definately don't want this, but a few years ago it was discussed as there were several "Plastic Fantastic" ( i'm not being rude, just my jealosy shining through ) aircraft coming into the Australian market that the powers to be were concerned where these aircraft would BEST fit the industry as a whole. Thankfully they elected to have them ( in the majority ) placed into the RAA registry. I believe the AUF at the time also aided CASA in their decission to go this way ( from our perspective, it is the better way to go ) . Those of us ( me included ) who want to go into CTA, have to be content with the regs as they are, they may change in the future but that will surely exclude some of us ( like my 19 Regd. Fisher MK1 ). So be it, but we can always plan and hope for the future. I started flying Ultralights in 1988, and since then the organisation has really moved mountains for the membership, as we grow and develop more will come. Don't forget, the folks at RAA have to go up againts CASA, they can be difficult at times and their ( CASA ) stance on non profit generating activities such as ours tends to change drastically over time and especially when the Minister or the head of CASA changes, then it's anyone guess as to their direction and priorities.

King, I think Zane was refering to a higher GA License. A case of apples and oranges flying wise that is. I think this is what the RAA are pushing for with the CTA endo. Unfortunately all RAA endo's and flying are done OCTA, and we are not examined on the requirements of operations within CTA plus some other ICAO requirements, i would agree that some RAA type pilots/ CFI's and instructers have an extraordinary level of skill and knowledge, but it is untested for operations in CTA ( without having a PPL or higher GA Lic. ) and CASA would need that assurity before granting entry. I struggle with the requirement to have my GA Lic. current before being able to go into CTA with an RAA aircraft, this is a pain, i have been able to get around it by being an ATC, so i am up to date with Radio Teleph. and proceedures etc, but others wont. My 1500+ hours should count for something. I would recomend a chat to the Ultralight school that has opened at Archerfield, i think it is called Dragon, they must have a dispensation from CASA but surely they will have to teach, train and examine their students on operations within CTA. They would probably have a full RAA lic. with some extra GA type quals' to comply with CASA. I wonder if one of their students once fully lic'd with RAA would permit them to fly into other CTA's other than YBAF ? If so, i am sure their student list will baloon out of sight. I think once RAA get an approved sylabus and trained / approved instructors, we will have access to CTA, but i can't see the likes of my aircraft being able to enter without first getting a dispensation from CASA ( uncertified airframe and uncertified engine ). Which really is fine by me, i don't want it for everyday use, just one off's for special occasions. I have been turned down a few times as the reasons were not adequate, i wanted to check out an Aircraft carrier from the US was one. The RPL thing i believe is only attached to places that have a recognised training facility approval, who gives it or where it comes from i don't know, maybe DEET 9 Dept. of Education Employment and Training ) or TAFE. I personally would avoid somewhere that dosen't recognise my current experience, especially when you are going from GA training to RAA type, that's just me though, and sometimes you get caught with no real other option !

PUD, not at all, i too have bouts of the Blonde ignorance and engage brain before talking problem, so many different people from such a vast array of "walks", it is one of the things i love so much about Recreational Aviation. The Fisher is great, the two of us have gone to so many places over the last 10 years, i am looking forward to adding many SA spots to the list.

Broome will be vastly different now, full ATC class D style, should help out some and keep it safe for all.