Thruster88

It did say in the early spiel? about the requirements that the card was only needed if in the secure area of the security controlled airport.

The first descent and climb back to altitude was very obviously under control. The data shows at the end a gradual reduction of speed while maintaining altitude and track perfectly over a minute or two. Aircraft on autopilot with a reduction of power in one or both engines, a stall most likely but why?

Only the altimeter should be used for vertical navigation. All transponders have a fixed baro setting so they are all on the same page. I think the SkyEcho2 would only transmit baro information for height and would not use the gps data for that function.

We need a picture. I have seen bush dweller Cessnas with mesh cable tied over the under wing breather. If the mesh is very fine it might block if wet or hit by a splatter bug.

One thing I have noticed while watching YouTube motorcycle "accidents" is many riders forget how the steering works when faced with a stressful situation. To rapidly or even normally turn left the handle bars must be turned right initially to get the bike leaned over. We do this subconsciously I think. This revelation came to me as at a young age when we bought a honda ATC200 trike. Our neighbor came over for a ride on this new fangled machine and it was quite hilarious watching his initial steering inputs, bike steering don't work with a trike, they steer like a car. To go left steer left. So our new to bikes rider gets out of his modern car with superb steering. All to often we see riders go off on the outside of corners with almost upright position. In aviation terms did they pull back on the stick when they should have pushed forward to un stall the wing with the ground rushing up. Knowledge, understanding and discipline may keep us safe.

If you took the racing line into the round a bout your indicator would not cancel.

The Pipistrel has 2 70kg battery packs that have the same energy as about 14L of petrol. It gets even worse for turbine aircraft. For a fully fuel Airtractor 802 the battery pack would have to wiegh about 8 tons. That is not going to fly.

I would need to see it or at least some good pics. I recall seeing a vid about a sonex, is the tail wheel operated by a single push rod? Differential action came to mind due to the angle of the rod. More left than right etc, good in an aileron system not so much in steering.

In the above vid the Pipistrel alpha electric is just one of three aircraft in their fleet, it probably flies about 10% of the total hours towards a commercial pilots license. At the end Mentor Pilot points out that until there is a quantum leap in battery not much will change in aviation. Cars are completely different and very successful right now.

Good post facthunter, except for the bit about wings folding. Scary stuff, fortunately that is not happening. We need all forms of pilot education to be factual and focused on the things that are causing serious "accidents", nearly all easily avoidable.

We have to think about every takeoff. At Old Station there is a similar land form to lake placid off the departure end of runway when going west. I said to my friend RFguy, we will be turning away from that if the engine fails. In the lake Placid case the right hand turn shortly after takeoff would have put the aircraft in a good position for the extensive golf course north of the field versus a possible under shoot for the runway with the deadly cliff awaiting.

There is nothing impossible about turning an aircraft with a dead engine at 30° bank angle while maintaining best glide speed. Maintaining best glide speed is the important bit regardless of going straight or turning.

Even battery tech that gives cars 2000km range will be of limited value for commercial aircraft. You just need a calculator. Weight is not much of a problem for cars, for aircraft remember the four forces that act on aircraft.

The reporter may have lapped it up, 1000nm commercial flights are now possible with electric. We know the propeller input power required for Cessna Caravan, Beech Kingair, De Havilland dash 8-400 etc. We know how much battery wieght is required to produce the power required for 1000nm flight in these aircraft. Currently they would be lucky to fly 200nm with any useful load. BS doesn't fly.

Whilst every fatal accident is tragic it is important to talk about and learn from them. Mark D mentioned the wagga wagga incident involving smoke in the cockpit, the report below shows how important landing immediately is. (The report was a little hard to find because Wagga Wagga is also know as forest hill aerodrome). It is a very well written account of what actually happened that RAAus did not re write so as to make it totally useless as is often the case with RAAus reports. 19/4/2019 OCC1664 Forest Hill Aerodrome NSW Jabiru J120C Jabiru 2200B After take-off at 700ft AGL a left turn was initiated. Immediately, there was a toxic smell and smo... After take-off at 700ft AGL a left turn was initiated. Immediately, there was a toxic smell and smoke in the cockpit. At this moment, with the aircraft needing to dump about 800feet of height NOW!!, The throttle was cut, the turn was pulled tight, full 'top rudder' was applied and the fuel shut-off valve was closed. A diving full slip was carried out, toward the general direction of the departure RWY strip. This was performed at a speed well above normal approach speed, in an attempt to land as quickly as possible. At or before the half way point of the approach, it became difficult to breathe and see due to smoke and flames. The aircraft was rounded out and forced onto the ground at high speed. After heavy braking, the aircraft came to rest on the centre line, facing 320 degrees, at right angles to the RWY direction, about half way along the RWY.The pilot and PAX disembarked the aircraft via the port door. The aircraft was destroyed by the fire. Suspected cause was a leakage from the fuel delivery system, within the engine bay.

Rotax sold about 40,000 582 engines. They also share many parts with similar snowmobile engines. After market support will be available for a long time.

The pilot may have been in the "if you don't stall the aircraft you won't die" camp. Well done.

Being able to remove all electricity from aircraft circuits is not just for impending forced landings or crashes, smoke in the cockpit rates right up there.

- NTSB issues the preliminary report into the fatal accident involving Richard McSpadden and Russ Francis in a Cessna 177RG Cardinal RG, N545PZ, that occurred on October 1, 2023, at Lake Placid Airport (LKP/KLKP), Lake Placid, New York: On October 1, 2023, at 1608 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 177RG, N545PZ, owned and operated by Lake Placid Air Service was substantially damaged when it was involved in an accident near Lake Placid, New York. The pilot and pilot-rated passenger sustained fatal injuries. The airplane was operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 aerial photography flight. The purpose of the flight was to photograph the accident airplane while airborne for later publication in a magazine article. According to witnesses, there were two airplanes that made up the flight. The lead airplane was a Beech A36 with a photographer onboard, which took off first from runway 32 at Lake Placid Airport (LKP), Lake Placid, New York. The accident airplane took off about 700 feet behind the Beech A36. The pilot/owner was to fly the airplane during the takeoff and climb out, and after joining up in formation, the pilot rated passenger would have taken over the controls and flown the airplane during the photo shoot. During taxi out, witnesses heard the engine of the accident airplane running when the Beech A36 pulled up next to it. The accident airplane’s engine then shut off, and about 10 seconds later, the engine restarted. During the takeoff roll, a witness described that the engine sounded as if the propeller was set for “climb” and not takeoff, then he heard the engine surge. During the initial climb, the witness further described that the engine did not sound as if it was running at full power. The accident airplane then made a gentle left turn while it was 300 to 400 feet above ground level to join with the Beech A36. As the accident airplane closed to within about 1,000 feet of the Beech A36, it suddenly made a hard right turn back toward the departure airport. During the turn, the pilot of the Beech A36 heard the passenger in the accident airplane transmit on the common traffic advisory frequency, “We have a problem and we’re returning to the airport.” The accident airplane subsequently impacted an embankment in a right-wing, nose-low attitude about 15 feet below the top of a plateau on airport property. The airplane then slid about 30-feet down the embankment and came to rest on the side of the slope upright, perpendicular to the embankment with its left wing oriented toward the upslope, and its right wing oriented downslope. The initial impact point on the embankment was located about 440 feet from the approach end of runway 14, approximately 250 feet left of the runway centerline. The downslope angle was about 70-degrees with a ravine at its bottom. Lake Placid Airport was located at an elevation of 1,747 feet above mean sea level, and it was equipped with a single runway in a 14/32, runway configuration. Runway 14/32 was comprised of asphalt that was in good condition, was 4,196 feet-long by 60 feet-wide, and was marked with non-precision markings in good condition that featured a touchdown point. Runway 14 was equipped with medium intensity runway edge lights and a 2-light precision approach path indicator on the left side of the runway which provided a 3.50° glidepath to touchdown. Obstructions existed in the form of 77-foot-high trees located 884 feet from the runway, 334 feet left of centerline, which required an 8:1 slope to clear. Additionally, there were 13-foot-high roads 45 feet and 145 feet from the threshold, and 12-foot-high trees 93 feet from the runway end, located 132 feet to the right of centerline. The recorded weather at Adirondack Regional Airport, Saranac Lake, New York, located about 13 nautical miles northwest of LKP, at 1551, included wind from 010 degrees true at 7 knots, 10 statute miles visibility, clear skies, a temperature of 23° C, a dew point of 12° C, and an altimeter setting of 30.20 inches of mercury. According to Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) records, the pilot held a commercial pilot certificate, with ratings for airplane single-engine land, multiengine land, and instrument airplane. He also possessed a type rating for the DC-3, and private pilot privileges for rotorcraft-helicopter. His most recent FAA-issued second-class medical certificate was issued on January 6, 2023. He reported on that date, that he had accrued approximately 9,000 total flight hours. According to FAA airworthiness and airplane maintenance records, the airplane was manufactured in 1976. The airplane's most recent annual inspection was completed on April 7, 2023. At the time of the inspection the airplane had accumulated 5,352.2 total hours of flight time, and the engine had accumulated 36.7 hours of operation since major overhaul. The wreckage was examined at the accident site. The right wing had sustained upward buckling from the wingtip inboard to the aileron/flap junction. The fuselage and empennage were slightly buckled along the right side from the aft side of the cabin door to approximately Fuselage Station (FS) 225. Control cable continuity was established from the flight control surfaces to the cockpit controls. The flaps were extended approximately 10 degrees; the stabilator trim was neutral. The fuel strainer bowl was fractured during the impact sequence and only a portion of it was observed. The fuel strainer screen was clean. The fuel selector handle operated normally in all positions and positively engaged in the detents. The position of the fuel selector valve was confirmed to be on “BOTH” by rotating the handle through all positions while defueling the airplane through the inlet line of the fuel strainer. The fuel caps were closed and secured. The position of the fuel pump switch could not be determined due to impact damage. There were no obstructions noted in the fuel or fuel vent system from the wing tanks to the inlet of the fuel strainer. First responders reported fuel was draining from the airplane upon arrival. No blockages were discovered in the fuel system and 17 gallons of fuel were recovered from the right wing fuel tank. The fuel was absent of water contamination. The nose landing gear was crushed aft during the impact sequence and the actuator was separated (its position could not be determined). The main landing gear were in an intermediate position. The single main landing gear actuator was observed attached to its frame. The sector gear teeth were intact. There was no observable damage to the main landing gear down locks or gear legs. The main landing gear wheels were observed in contact with the buckled lower fuselage and not in the wheel wells. The electrical and lighting switch positions were damaged during the impact sequence and their positions could not be determined. The cowl flap handle was in the “OPEN” position. The mixture control was in the full rich position, the propeller control was in the high rpm / fine pitch position, and the throttle was out about 2-inches and bent slightly up and to the left about 30-degrees. The engine remained attached to the firewall through its respective engine mounts. The engine mount sustained damage from the impact sequence in the form of fractures and bends to various tube sections and was canted to the right of the airplane centerline. The engine mount was cut using a reciprocating saw to free the engine from the firewall along with disconnecting or separating various fuel hoses and control cables. The propeller remained attached to the engine crankshaft. The propeller spinner was impact fractured and only half of it remained attached to the propeller hub. The propeller hub was found cracked and damaged consistent with impact, and one blade was partially dislodged from the hub. The blade exhibited leading edge scratches and gouges. The other blade was bent slightly aft at midspan with an approximate 2-inch curled section of the tip separated. The blade exhibited chordwise scratching and leading edge gouging on the outer 1/3 of the blade. The top sparkplugs were all found intact, undamaged, and tightly installed in each cylinder. The top sparkplugs were removed, and a lighted borescope examination was conducted on each cylinder. No abnormalities were noted within the cylinders. The engine crankshaft was rotated by the propeller in its normal direction of rotation, and suction and compression were noted on all cylinders through the top spark plug holes, with movement of all rocker arms noted during rotation. All 8 sparkplugs were removed and compared to a Champion Aerospace AV-27 “Check-A-Plug” Chart. Coloration across the plugs was from normal to black carbon fouled, with normal wear to the electrodes. No mechanical electrode damage was noted or observed on any of the sparkplugs. The bottom sparkplugs for cylinders No. 1 and No. 3 were oil soaked, consistent with orientation of the engine at the accident site and oil within the cylinders. The single drive dual magneto unit was found securely installed to the rear of the engine, after removal of the unit, the single drive was rotated using an electric drill. The magneto produced spark at all ignition leads. No damage was observed to the magneto housing, but both ignition harnesses sustained varying levels of impact damage in the form of cuts and abrasions to multiple leads. The oil dipstick was found securely installed in the filler neck and indicated that 6 quarts of oil was contained in the engine oil sump. Oil was found draining from an area on the No. 3 cylinder exhaust tube that was impact damaged and due to the orientation of the airplane at the accident site. Oil was also found on the accessory section of the engine around the oil filter as the oil filter had sustained a high level of impact damage and was separated from oil filter’s threaded base. A portion of filter element was removed, examined, and found to be clean with no metallic particles or debris present. The oil suction screen plug was found to be tight, and safety wired to the oil sump. The screen was unobstructed and clear of any debris. The fuel system including the engine driven fuel pump, fuel manifold, and fuel servo were all found attached to the engine at the time of the examination. The fuel pump’s 45-degree outlet fitting was found slightly loose with the mating hose tight to the fitting. No fuel staining was observed from the fitting or on the fuel pump housing itself. The fuel divider was tightly installed to the top of the engine with all injection lines tight and secure to each injection nozzle. The fuel injection manifold was disassembled with no debris or tears noted to its diaphragm. The fuel servo was attached to the lower side of the engine with all lines tight and secure, but all four hold down nuts were found loose when slight pressure with a wrench was applied. Torque stripes were present on the studs and nuts. The torque stripes did not appear to be disturbed or misaligned. The throttle plate was found in the closed position. When the throttle arm was actuated manually, the throttle plate moved freely within the servo, but the threaded rod for the idle thumb screw adjustment was found fractured and not connected. The fuel injection nozzles were found to be free and clear of any debris. The vacuum pump was found securely installed to the accessory section of the engine. The rotor and vanes within were all found intact with no fractures or damage observed. The drive coupling was present with no damage observed and the entire unit spun freely when rotated by hand. The propeller governor was found securely installed to the rear of the engine. Its screen was found free and clear of any debris and oil flowed from the unit when rotated by hand. The wreckage was retained for further examination. Conditions at Accident Site: VMC Condition of Light: Day Observation Facility, Elevation: KSLK,1659 ft msl Observation Time: 15:51 Local Distance from Accident Site: 13 Nautical Miles Temperature/Dew Point: 23°C /12°C Lowest Cloud Condition: Clear Wind Speed/Gusts, Direction: 7 knots / , 10° Lowest Ceiling: None Visibility: 10 miles Altimeter Setting: 30.23 inches Hg Type of Flight Plan Filed: None Departure Point: Lake Placid, NY (LKP) Destination: Lake Placid, NY (LKP) Latitude, Longitude: 44.269042,-73.968803 - Report: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/193166/pdf Having the gear out and prop in fine pitch would not have been helpful in attempting to clear the cliff at end of runway.

It is most unlikely that the aircraft crashed while inverted. Aircraft invert regularly after a hard landing.

A very short skid mark thru the crop, quite a hard hit. Don't think that one will fly again.

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Marvel Schebler updraft carbs as fitted to Lycoming and Continental aircraft engines vent the carb bowl directly into the carb throat. No fuel is spilled if inverted unless the fuel lines are disrupted.

Carb ice is most unlikely with that engine model. If that was the cause there would be many per week landing of airport.

There is a reason why Tesla and all the many other manufacturers of electric vehicles have not gone with in wheel motor "technology". First it is not technology. Unfortunately there is this thing called unsprung weight, best avoided.