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New electric motor 50Kgs 260KW


fly_tornado
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Now lets ask them to put that level of power to weight into a 50-70 kw engine and we are talking about an engine comparable in power to the 582-912 bracket at an motor mass of 15-20kg.

 

The mass from 50L petrol plus 912 less the electric motor and for same overall mass you have an allowance for batteries of around 80kg ... energy density in the existing batteries would give you more than the hours that the first production electric two seater - Alpha Electro from Pipistrel ...

 

 

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The battery will be the problem. Power for mass and how safe from meltdown they are. I have even had big lead acid batteries cook themselves and they have nowhere near enough power density for practical endurance . Nev

 

 

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Well I can get an off the shelf direct drive electric motor in the 447 power range (30kw peak, 25 continuous) with controller for under 10kg ... its just the batteries that stump me ... price n weight ... oh and the personally required parachute just in case the LiPos go a little 'fire happy' in the air :-/

 

If it were not for the fact that I already have the F23 and the cost of the batteries/motor are so high I would be happy to give the old sapphire another make-over and turn her electric instead of just moving from 28hp to the 50 of the F23 conversion.

 

As its a 95.10 low weight thick wing sapphire (just under 135kg with 28hp engine) it both has the lift to fly on really modest power and the depth within the wing to put the batteries but I just can't justify the spend so the electric sapphire is sitting in system drawings and specs with costings ... maybe one day.

 

 

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I was reading about a new aluminium battery under development, sounds like a variation of a massive capacitor. Being aluminium it will be cheap as chips

Hmmm was that an ultracapacitor (Canadian) or the sacrificial aluminium/air 'batteries' that are really single life fuel cells (aluminium + electrolyte (water) + oxygen = electricity + aluminium hydroxide)?

The ultra capacitors have been hyped and sold as just around the corner for decades while the aluminium/air battery/fuel cell has a shorter history ... but from a 'green' perspective the power that went into the aluminium to produce the battery/fuel cell and the fact its not rechargable makes it quite un-green at the moment ... though the aluminium hydroxide is able to be reprocessed into aluminium again ... but with the same high energy input that was needed to create it in the first place.

 

 

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Oh or you could scrape the hydroxide gel out of the case - wait for it to crystalise and then just consume when you have an upset tummy - its not every battery that produces as its byproduct Gaviscon :-)

 

 

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Sounds like you're anti electric Nev?

 

Those that worry about battery fires forget we currently and happily fly with tens of litres of a flammable, volatile liquid substance called petrol.

 

We put procedures in place to limit our risks but sometimes sh*t happens.

 

Not doubt in the future, electric flight will become common place and again, safety procedures will be in place to limit the risk.

 

 

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Sounds like you're anti electric Nev?Those that worry about battery fires forget we currently and happily fly with tens of litres of a flammable, volatile liquid substance called petrol.

We put procedures in place to limit our risks but sometimes sh*t happens.

 

Not doubt in the future, electric flight will become common place and again, safety procedures will be in place to limit the risk.

Yeah but if I am putting LiPo batteries inside a fabric wing with a wooden spar ... ever seen lithium burn? It aint gonna blow out no matter how much I point the nose at the ground to get a bit more wind ...

 

 

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Yeah but if I am putting LiPo batteries inside a fabric wing with a wooden spar ... ever seen lithium burn? It aint gonna blow out no matter how much I point the nose at the ground to get a bit more wind ...

Part of the safety procedure may be "No wooden spars or fabric..."

 

 

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Powered glider with solar panels on the wing. Only using the engine for takeoff and occasionally maintaining height so batteries don't need to be huge. It wouldn't be a particularly fast aircraft, but should be able to pootle around all day in the sunshine....

 

 

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Downunder. No I'm not anti electric. I don't believe we are there with batteries by a mile yet, except for interesting little fun stuff hybrid gliders etc. You just don't have the energy/weight equation right to go vast distances at any great speed and payload. Hydrocarbons stored aren't a serious threat, and you can even dump tonnes of fuel safely done properly, although a litre of it properly mixed with air would blow the average house apart.. Nev

 

 

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Powered glider with solar panels on the wing. Only using the engine for takeoff and occasionally maintaining height so batteries don't need to be huge. It wouldn't be a particularly fast aircraft, but should be able to pootle around all day in the sunshine....

sounds fantastic, usually there's no shortage of sunshine here

 

 

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Part of the safety procedure may be "No wooden spars or fabric..."

In the event of a battery fire wood is safer than metal. Wood chars and eventually burns. Aluminium rapidly heats, loses rigidity, folds up...then burns violently.

 

 

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Part of the safety procedure may be "No wooden spars or fabric..."

what safety process? this is 95.10 I'm saving paddle pop sticks for the new spars :-P

 

 

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I think you're all taking me out of context (or winding me up?).

 

What I'm saying is that there are measures to mitigate the risks of petrol and there would be measures to limit the risks for batteries....None perfect.....

 

 

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Electric power for aircraft frees up designers from the traditional constraints of heavy engine, liquid fuel. Being so light, engine, prop. and batteries can be put just about anywhere. Battery packs could be plugged into the rear of wings or fuselage for easy swapping...or ejection in the event of fire.

 

 

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