AusFly 2015 reports

[flyvulcan]

So we need the SASAOs to get together before next years AusFly and lobby CASA to publish a Ramp Check guide that complies with their own regulations, that clarifies each point on the guide and is unambiguous and easy to read.

 

I will email the SAAA National Council and suggest this initiative for the benefit of its members and for the benefit of next years AusFly.

 

The cooperation between the recreational aviation bodies is improving significantly and indications that I have from the current SAAA National Councillors is that CASA have not only been receptive to dialogue but also proactive in addressing issues.

 

So through our organisations, let's determine what issues needs lobbying and get started on it (and yes, the Forsyth report will be part of that).

 

The published Ramp Check guide and the conduct of ramp checks could be one of the first issues that could potentially be quite easily resolved through lobbying.

 

Perhaps for the benefit of the AusFly event organisers and SAAA National Councillors who will read this thread in order to get feedback to improve next years event for everyone, when an observation is made about what could be improved, a suggestion about how to improve it would be welcomed. E.g.

 

What - I didn't attend because of the fear of a ramp check, even though I am confident that I am complying with the regulations (but I'm not sure that the CASA inspector interprets the regulations in the same way as me)

 

Why - The Ramp Check guide doesn't appear to be in line with the regulations, is open to interpretation or misunderstanding, and I cannot understand it

 

Solution - Lobby CASA to rewrite the Ramp Check guide so that it is in line with regulations and so that it is comprehensive, clear, concise and unambiguous about what documents, material or actions are acceptable to comply with and pass the ramp check

 

 

[Oscar]

The current operatives in CASA do not understand their own regulations: witness the inclusion of Experimental category aircraft in the Jabiru engine limitations saga.

 

CASA personnel frequently 'interpret' the CARs to support their desire to enforce a situation when in fact the CARs do NOT validate the stance they have taken.

 

The better alternative here, is for the SASAOs to develop 'ramp check' guidelines and have them formally approved by CASA. The SASAOs should provide a pro-forma checklist and every member of a SASAO should carry a copy with them, so that if a CASA ramp-check inspector arrives, they can produce the checklist and have it followed to determine compliance.

 

It then becomes an argument between the SASAO and CASA, if an individual is in compliance with the relevant SASAO checklist, that the CARs have not been breached.

 

If one flies under the administration of a SASAO, in accordance with current and approved SASAO requirements, CASA should not be able to apply punishment for an alleged breach of the CARs. The 'judgemental' opportunity for an individual CASA Inspector is removed - it becomes a matter of fact - not interpretation - of compliance with the requirements.

 

 

[flyvulcan]

The better alternative here, is for the SASAOs to develop 'ramp check' guidelines and have them formally approved by CASA. The SASAOs should provide a pro-forma checklist and every member of a SASAO should carry a copy with them, so that if a CASA ramp-check inspector arrives, they can produce the checklist and have it followed to determine compliance.

That's a very good suggestion Oscar and is a viable and workable solution to one of the issues!

 

I shall pass it on (credited to you) to the SAAA CEO as a potential solution to participants "fear of a ramp check", not only at AusFly but in general.

 

 

[440032]

Driving around Dubbo over the weekend, there were plenty of VACANCY signs out at motels, right over the whole weekend. No problem.

 

Went by the Narromine showgrounds also later on Saturday - very busy down there.

 

 

[spacesailor]

:Now that it has wound down, we can look at ways to make it better and I guess constructive feedback:

 

Catering / lets call "SES" they need income producing functions, (Did a marvelous job @ :Wellington Wombats Caving Weekend:)

 

Entertainment / Drop the spouse & kids off a Dubbo's open-air Zoo.

 

Leisure / I caught a beautiful Barramundy at the local river.

 

History / Parks radio telescope

 

There's so much to see & do in the region GO and enjoy.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Got a flyer for the Whitsundays air show the other day, they have a list of day "trip" activities over the course of the week, basically getting everyone out to experience the region and spend some dollars for the locals. Some were "fly aways" others in a bus provided. (Not sure on fees). Could be an idea either side of the weekend for those who have the time to hang around.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Got a flyer for the Whitsundays air show the other day, they have a list of day "trip" activities over the course of the week, basically getting everyone out to experience the region and spend some dollars for the locals. Some were "fly aways" others in a bus provided. (Not sure on fees). Could be an idea either side of the weekend for those who have the time to hang around.

Back in the good old days of Natfly (at Narromine) there were bus trips for the ladies to Searle's rose nursery and other attractions.

 

 

[Guest asmol]

Casa have already done the checklists approved also by RA-Aus, they gave out thousands to anyone who wanted one, i got a few at Evans Head. This satisfies your checklist requirements and can sit right next to your useless A-SIC if you need one.

 

 

 

 

[Ada Elle]

Back in the good old days of Natfly (at Narromine) there were bus trips for the ladies to Searle's rose nursery and other attractions.

That's the kind of sexist thinking that led to a 'ladies program' at NATFLY. Why do you want to treat people as second class pilots?

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I think it was more for partners of the pilots who may not be interested hanging around an airport all day.

 

 

[Ada Elle]

I think it was more for partners of the pilots who may not be interested hanging around an airport all day.

Then call it a partners program and not a ladies program.

 

If you have two programs, a 'pilots program' and a 'ladies program', that suggests that you're excluding ladies from being pilots.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

"partner's" program would indicate that it would interest both men and women when its clearly aimed at women...

 

 

[robinsm]

call it a co pilots program and get rid of the politically correct nonsense. Co pilots covers ladies, men and signifigant others...just sayin

 

 

[rankamateur]

That's the kind of sexist thinking that led to a 'ladies program' at NATFLY. Why do you want to treat people as second class pilots?

The point was they were not pilots at all, BUT because there was something they were interested in at Narromine on Easter weekend their poor old henpecked pilot husband could go to Natfly for Easter instead of taking the children to visit Aunt Maude.

Would you like a hand down off your high horse?

 

 

[Nobody]

relax guys, we are supposed to be friends.

 

I think that there is a little bit of a generational difference in attitudes here. Modern wives are much more likely to be involved in the recreational activities of their husbands and vice versa. At the recent Ausfly most of the younger people who flew in, did so with their wives or girlfriends. I am in my 30's and I know that my wife would be interested in attending for the same reasons I would go, to meet people and see interesting things. She isn't necessarily interested in the technical side of aviation but will tolerate that if it provides interest in other areas. She would be disappointed to be bused off to something else.

 

That being said I think that there is a great opportunity to showcase local attractions at a fly-in event. I suspect that after last years cancellation, Ausfly had to make a huge effort to regain the confidence of attendees, exhibitors and the local community. Committing to hiring a fleet of buses to run people around when it is unknown how many people might turn up would be a huge ask. Hopefully for next years event.

 

 

[Ada Elle]

The point was they were not pilots at all, BUT because there was something they were interested in at Narromine on Easter weekend their poor old henpecked pilot husband could go to Natfly for Easter instead of taking the children to visit Aunt Maude. Would you like a hand down off your high horse?

Do you like being an unreconstructed sexist (person...mod)

 

watching the world pass you by?

 

A "ladies program" at a fly-in that isn't an AWPA meeting or similar suggests that you want to shunt women off to the non pilots corner.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I thought it was a voluntary program?

 

 

[red750]

A "ladies program" at a fly-in that isn't an AWPA meeting or similar suggests that you want to shunt women off to the non pilots corner.

The alternative is for partners (male,female or transgender, whatever) to stay home on their own if they are not interested in aviation. If they are, then they stay with their pilot/enthusiast partner.

 

I know my wife would not be interested in the least and would rather stay home, while my daughter is very interested and has attended every Avalon with me since 2007. However, having an alternative so that partners can have a short holiday together, but enjoy what interests them, is not sexist. No-one is making the partner bus off somewhere else. It's like fishing. One partner might enjoy fishing, while the other partner might not appreciate sitting in a tinnie in the middle of a lake, drowning worms. My wife likes going to symphony concerts and usually goes with a friend. I hate it if she drags me along, so usually find something else to do. No need to get your knickers in a twist.

 

 

[Ada Elle]

I know all these things!

 

I am offended by the presumption that all pilots are men and all partners are women. That is what the existence of a 'ladies program' and 'henpecked pilot' suggests. The College of Surgeons, as conservative and traditional as they are, has a 'scientific program' and 'social program' at its annual meeting. There is a women's program, but it is a morning for discussion of women in surgery.

 

 

[robinsm]

Read my previous comment re co-pilots group. So...do the surgeons have a men in surgery morning..??

 

 

[flyvulcan]

Alright, we have the suggestion for an Alternative to Aviation series of activities for attendees whose interest may not lie in aviation, regardless of their gender, religion, race etc.. Again, this is a reasonable suggestion that has proven popular at air shows/conventions/fly-ins such as Oshkosh.

 

Could we please cease the sexism angst and focus on constructive suggestions for future AusFlys?

 

 

[Nobody]

I think that one of the successful things that occurs at Oshkosh is a range of things that occur on the site that are of interest to an audience outside the hard core aviators. For instance they have a concert and are able to attract quite good acts to perform. The year that I was there they screened the worldwide premiere of disneys planes.

 

Having these activities occur on the flyin site adds to the atmospheres and builds the impression that flying is a fun social activity.

 

Busing people off site just builds the perception that aviation is not for them.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I know all these things!I am offended by the presumption that all pilots are men and all partners are women. That is what the existence of a 'ladies program' and 'henpecked pilot' suggests. The College of Surgeons, as conservative and traditional as they are, has a 'scientific program' and 'social program' at its annual meeting. There is a women's program, but it is a morning for discussion of women in surgery.

I believe we get a tougher hide as we age..........I understand your reason for offence....but on a scale that ranges from I cant even be bothered answering that through to I must write at once to the PM and ask for some more legislation immediately.......I personally find myself wondering where the energy to even write this came from.........

 

At my stage I find a ladies program simply means that the vast majority of females will likely enjoy, while at the same time the vast majority of males will not......I understand there will be exceptions but a title needs to be only a few words, not a legal terms and conditions document with every possible exception identified and treated......

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't feel flying generally is female friendly. This site is a good example, and shows by the low number of femmes contributing . I have also observed that around the traps generally. Women don't want to be patronised either and I'm not doing it now. Just merely stating what it THINK is a fact. Who ever writes good stuff will get appreciated and if it's $#!t regardless of the MorF bit the writer should be prepared to be asked to justify what they have said. If women are different in some ways (they are generally less risk averse and ego controlled Don't dag and show off) is a plus and if they arc up and reckon you are picking on them because you are a rapist typical male control freak that would be a minus in the training relationship.. I know I'm on thin ice, but you have to be old to gain wisdom. Nev

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

The Australian Women Pilot's Association's annual event has a "partners program" and has for as long as I can remember (been a member for about 20 years but don't go to every one). It is not limited to partners as I use it as an alternative when the official itinerary isn't my cup of tea. Tour operators picked us up (as they normally did for other groups) and knew how many as we either booked in advance or let them know in the morning for the afternoon. Some things were walking distance or at the venue. The focus was on tourism or entertainment, not a tent offering creative spanner arranging, but things showcasing the area or allowing social interaction - most had a fee attached.

 

 

 

AWPA moves their event every year to another State (known years in advance) and that State is responsible for arranging things. This year is South Australia - Victor Harbour - 30th March – 3rd April, 2016 and no doubt Victoria 2017 planning is already under way - WA 2018, Qld 2019, NSW 2020, Tas 2021 etc. Perhaps the National Fly-in could move between the major players - SAAA at Narromine, RAA etc. I wouldn't expect SAAA to host an event at other than Narromine because their headquarters and staff are there.