Feedback on NatFly

[Guest burbles1]

Happy Easter!

 

Okay, here's a thread for some serious comments on what you thought of NatFly 2011. What works well, what's missing. I spent Friday and Saturday milling around, mainly taking pics of the crowd and trade displays. I thought the number and variety of trade displays was down from last year - the big players were there, and good to see Morgan Aeroworks and Brumby as usual. But there is room for more variety - perhaps smaller kit aircraft should be on display.

 

I was a bit disappointed that the AWPA didn't get much exposure, stuck out on their own away from the crowd.

 

The aerobatic display each day was great, and the fly-bys (gyro, a few others) added some excitement to an otherwise "flat" event.

 

By Saturday, I thought that one thing to make it more exciting throughout the day would be more announcements. I jumped on the mic and announced the speakers program for 10.00 and 11.00. There should be a little more of that to announce events and draw a crowd for speakers.

 

I only got to a few talks on Saturday, but they were mostly well attended, so it seems the right topics were covered.

 

Organisation was acceptable. It was good to see a few people buzzing around in golf buggies handing out programs - those were good too, with an aerial pic of the venue on one side and the day's program on the other. Clever. But can someone tell me what the RA-Aus Support Vehicle was supposed to do? Four people in a golf buggy - including a couple of teens - that drove around seemingly not doing much.

 

I pick up on small details, and on my walks through carparks saw a few ladies sitting in cars reading. Was the Ladies Program (town excursions, wine and cheese trip) not good enough? It's a shame if we're leaving some people out of the action.

 

Any other comments?

 

 

[Seal]

OK, I'll bite. I just arrived back from Natfly after an entertaining flight. The all singing, all dancing electronic box dropped its lunch over the weekend so it was home on (very) basic instruments, map and whizz wheel. I missed my ETA by one minute after 300 miles so I guess all that old stuff still works.

 

• First up, let me say I enjoyed the few days, apart from half a day spent stuffing around behind my panel.
   
   
  
• The organisation was pretty much invisible which means it must have been functioning OK.
   
   
  
• The food area coped but it was a near thing at times and better weather may have put catering under severe pressure.
   
   
  
• The talks were OK in general but I would like to see some practical, hands on instruction sessions. eg: how to drive rivets; how to weld steel tube; how to lay up a bit of glass say for a scoop; how to scarf joint a piece of timber; how to lockwire a turnbuckle; etc. Give people a feel for some of the practical tasks, help to demystify the process of building your own plane, spread skill among those already doing it.
   
   
  
• Making an entertaining air display within RAA limitations is a bit hard. After the first few handling displays and the first bloody noisy gyro it all begins to look a little ho hum. If commercial firms are going to give handling displays then they ought to work up some decent commentary to go with it. Most of them were bumbling. Unfortunately, one of the better ones was associated with the aforementioned BNG, oh well, can't win em all. A good display of aeros is certainly great to watch but it also serves to highlight what RAA is not. How about something different. A few RAA designs have STOL pretentions but can any of them beat a fully tricked out Super Cub? Could we not have a STOL competition? Don't know if we could get away with the flying under a ribbon tunnel trick or one of its many variations but it sure would be interesting to try. See if we can do something to promote the idea of airmanship and flying for enjoyment.
   
   
  
• Temora is a great town with great people. We should make our appreciation known to all.
   
   
  
• The airport shuttle bus was a bit of a disaster. There did not seem to be a defined circuit or the bus was not completing the circuit much of the time. We were staying at the Temora Motel which was probably the furthest extent of the run and there were many times where the bus did not appear for an hour or more and we had to walk up to Paleface Park to secure a lift. Once on the bus the drivers were invariably cheerful and helpful in getting passengers to where they needed to go.
   
   
  
• Not only was the functioning of the organisation invisible, sometimes the organisation itself was too. When trying to register after flying in it took a while to find the RAA site, there was a banner on a side taxiway but on the road side, where all the people were, not a sausage, completely anonymous. It took some fairly broad hints and most of a day before a small sign appeared on the road side entrance. Likewise, when leaving I was looking for the ops area to get a forecast and so forth. No signage to be seen. Luckily there was some logic to this one because when I went in the door near the man in his dinky scissor lift control tower there was the briefing area complete with sign. Inside the door. A banner on the side of the building would be good!
   
   
  
• How about some name tags, perhaps with some colour codes or something to identify those flew an aircraft in, those who built the aircraft they flew in, things like that. Write your name and aircraft type on the tag. This would help to promote interaction, enable builders to link up, enable intending builders to meet someone knowledgeable on the aircraft they are interested in and perhaps provide some gentle social incentive to get construction started or completed, get training completed and so on.
   
   
  
• I hesitate to suggest increased use of the PA system as they can so easily become a royal pain in the butt but an announcement of the presentations a half hour or so in advance would be helpful, I missed a couple because I got sidetracked. Doesn't need endless repetitions, just single run through, in half an hour, X in hanger A, Y in hanger B etc.
   
   
  

 

 

Remember Anzac Day and the people who defend us.

 

 

[Spin]

No photos guys?

 

 

[Ultralights]

photos coming, i actually enjoyed the weekend, Unicom were doing a great job especially handling all the inbound aircraft around an aerobatic display, very professional, Temora council have gone out of their way to help make it a great experience, new signage etc, enough community groups providing food without too much of a wait. the music piped through the PA was annoying while trying to get to sleep in a non soundproof tent though..

 

 

[XAIRVTW]

I was there on Saturday I thought the ground staff & parking this year was well orgainised having color coded area was great idea. Yeah their was a large area vacant around from the Piper stand to Xair which left a bit of a void not sure what happened there? I think the area to work on next year would have to be the food outlets I was suprised not to see Rotary or the lions clubs with their BBQ's & maybe a couple of cafe stalls spread around the site. All in all I had enjoyable day came home with a bit more knowledge & an excellent insurance package that has saved $$$. As Bubble Boy mentioned the Rag & tube type aircraft are they becoming a thing of the past, I counted only three stands Xair & Skyranger,Quicksilver (I will stand corrected if I have overlooked some) that had rag & tube type machines the rest were all composite, all very nice aircraft & with a heafty price to go with it. I would hate to think that rag & tube type aircraft under 50 grand maybe fadding into the past.Im sure there still would be a strong market for this type of aircraft. I would be happy to hear other peoples views on this

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

I agree that too many PA announcements are bad because people don't listen after a while. But Friday was too dull and it would have been good to hear something every half an hour. Signage showing a map of the site was improved, thanks to the Council. But a couple of times people asked me for directions - where is Tenefts Street, where's the information hangar (!), and "where is the southwest corner of ..." How about grid references on maps?

 

They're all good suggestions, thanks Seal.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Yep, some valid criticisms. Perhaps we should all put up our hands to help make it better next time.

 

Don't forget that the best part of NatFly is the excuse to go for a long flight and meet fellow aviators!

 

I had a terrific trip down, except for the stress of dodging rainshowers and poor visibility.

 

The flight home Saturday arvo was delayed by the display flying, and I had to hammer it all the way home to beat the dark. It was so bumpy after takeoff I regretted not waiting 'till Sunday. Thanks to our new access to upper airspace, I was able to avoid the turbulence made worse by stubble fires. Above 5000' the air was as smooth as silk.

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

I drove down Thursday and left Sunday. I attended last year and there were definitely less people and exhibitors this year. The weather on Thursday and Friday may have contributed to this along with the recent spate of natural disasters around the country. Carol was continually on the move trying to ensure things were running smooth. The lady caretaker (cant recall her name) worked her butt off from what I saw. She spent all day booking campers in then I saw her cleaning the toilet block late at night. This year I felt the shower blocks were in a some what unclean state most times I attended. With this size event, regular cleaners need to be checking on these through out the day.

 

Glad the Garbo's didnt empty bins in the early hours like they did last year.

 

I was disappointed with the food stalls available. I felt last years setup was better and the lines flowed a lot quicker even with more people attending. Had we had the same numbers as last year, I feel this area would have been a disaster! It was good to see the prices were reasonable.

 

I thought the forums in the hangar's were great for my personal situation. I would have loved Wayne Mathews presentation to have been on the Friday as I missed half the day. Most people didnt get there till late Thursday or Friday. His presentation was great and could have benefited a lot more people. The fabric covering session was great! Keith Rules presentation was very informing. Learnt a hell of a lot.

 

I cant understand why one or two of the museum aircraft couldnt have been displayed on one day during the lunch display session. Its a massive draw card to the town and all would have appreciated a quick beat up down the runway. With the amount of visitors I saw going in to the museum, im sure the cost of doing it would have been covered. Is this something that can be organised next year maybe?

 

I cant help thinking that the whole RAA theme is being lost to these some what expensive composite aircraft which are out of a lot of peoples price range. I would love to see an attempt be made to get more rag and tube type planes and make an effort to get businesses there displaying aircraft the average person could afford. The Carbon Cub as nice as it looked was ridiculously priced at around $225 000. That's not recreational flying for the average person!

 

To sum it up im glad I went and will go again. Im not criticising anyone's efforts that have gone in to the event, just thinking of ways to make it even better!

 

Scotty

 

 

[Owi]

Above comments sound quite valid to me.

 

• I also felt that this year the show seemed a bit flat compared to 2010. Some vendors were missing and there wasn't such a buzz as we had last year. I didn't see anybody advertising any TIFs either, which was quite a let-down as I had saved up a stack of cash to spend on a few TIFs.
   
   
  
• I was thrilled to see the Cessna C-162 Skycatcher at last, but was surprised and let down by the attitude of the AMP rep. "Put all your metal things down over there, I don't want the plane to get scratched." Geez, things must be really tight at Cessna that they can't show off a new plane properly? Why didn't they just put a cordon around it and make it view/touch by invitation only? (Silly idea, I know).
   
   
  
• While I understand the reason for the timing of this year's event (conflict with Avalon, etc.), I think that putting it over the Easter weekend turned out to be a bad idea - competing with long-standing family traditions and other established events elsewhere meant it was already going to have trouble getting "bums on seats".
   
   
  
• The time of year is bad - it was way too cold and a bit wet for a comfy camp out and the weather too inclement for reliable flying. There are not enough interested locals to fill the gaps in attendance.
   
   
  
• I was quite disappointed that RA-Aus didn't bring their goodies shop down this year (I was told the trailer was in Melbourne and couldn't be brought up in time!). I feel that was quite a stuff-up on their part and would've been costly in terms of lost sales and a missed opportunity to add commercial exposure of RA to the public in general.
   
   
  
• Where were the NATFLY mugs and other souvenirs!? I bought a NATFLY 2010 mug last year and was hoping to continue the collection for each year of my attendance!
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

• I enjoyed most of the forums I attended - there was enough for me that I had to toss a coin on a couple of occasions. So, from me, a huge thank you to those numerous people who generously give of their time, knowledge and resources to help us become better aviators. There are criticisms, but I will hold on to them for now, since I realise that most are not used to doing this sort of thing and can get things wrong (I work in a corporate environment where presentations have to be slick, and am used to those standards). I hope to make a separate post about this later.
   
   
  

 

 

Regardless of the negatives, it was a nice time out from the usual humdrum of city life. I already can't wait for NATFLY 2012!

 

 

[Admin]

Thanks for that DF...I will look at organise it for Sat next year...in picking the day and time I thought that the Friday Morning was good as it gave everyone a chance to get together and perhaps make other times to meet up for a drink throughout the event...next year I will take it under advisement from you all when planning it...thanks again mate

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Yes I tend to agree on most comments above, my suggestion would be to have the very slick UNICOM service freed up as soon as you vacate the operational runway. There was a lot of directing of ground traffic going on the CTAF which if busier would certainly have had an effect on air separation. If they had dual monitoring or 2 comms this would not be a problem.

 

my $2 worth...:thumb_up:

 

 

[Neil_S]

Hi folks,

 

OK - my 2 cents-worth. This was the first Natfly that my Gazelle co-owner, Matt, and I had attended, so we were not able to compare with previous years.

 

We flew in on the Thursday afternoon and left on Sunday morning.

 

* First off the arrival arrangements with a separate Ground Control frequency, and colour-coded Follow Me vehicles, worked very well - we were guided straight to a camping location and got set up very quickly.

 

* We found the registration location without much problem and picked up the agendas for the presentations. The big labels to hang on your propellor with your name and departure location was a good idea, and I would perhaps suggest some sort of reasonably-sized label for people to wear showing their name and Rec Flying handle may be an idea for future events, as there were a number of people that I would have liked to meet up with but failed to do so, although I met up with their planes! Maybe also a second Rec Flying meet-up session on the Saturday as has been suggested. Putting faces to names is always good.

 

* The food court was pretty good, and adequate for the numbers there, but I could see it may have been struggling with more people.

 

* The exhibitions were interesting but as someone else pointed out - the Carbon Cub at $225,000 is not really my idea of "affordable Recreational Flying"! Some more exhibits of kits, or under $100,000 pre-builts, would certainly have got my interest. I also visited the museum, and a flight by any of the museum aircraft would certainly have been a bonus for me.

 

* The presentations that I attended were all interesting, from the "how to update your Garmin software" through to "hands-on fabric covering". Well done, and thanks to all the presenters.

 

* The community bus service into town worked OK for us, with entertaining and friendly bus drivers, and on the Thursday evening when we managed to miss the return bus we were able to get one of the two local taxis back to the airfield.

 

* On the Sunday morning when ready to depart we were able to grab a ground marshall pretty quickly and got lined up and ready to go without any fuss.

 

So for us it was a very enjoyable event, we met up with some friendly fellow aviators and local people, and had a great time. A big thank you to all the organizers for your efforts - they are very much appreciated by the likes of us, and any comments should be seen as suggested improvements, not criticisms. Looking forward to next year....

 

Neil

 

 

[MrH]

I flew the Landcruiser again (sadly that's my life)

 

As mentioned before, the event didn't have the buzz of last year & seemed down on numbers but never the less I still enjoyed myself.

 

I would like to see the exhibitors closer together - the large gaps were dissapointing & made the place look deserted. Maybe exhibitors didn't turn up?

 

I would love to see more rag & tube, slow going aircraft exhibitors. Fisher aircraft would have been one.. Last years building of the Wallaby was great to witness.

 

Shame Hobrook didn't bring a couple of exhibits from thier museum as they did last year.

 

I wouldn't mind being able to roam the "Fly In for the day" aircraft but they were parked miles away & probably out of bounds (not sure)

 

Showers & Toilets were OK (I got up early :) for the numbers but maybe another portable block particularily for the under wing campers may help

 

I enjoy the forums & wouldn't mind more to chose from or maybe repeats so you can work around conflicts.

 

I'd like to see SAAA included more. They have a lot to share & I think their presence would be benificial for both parties. They had some great forums last year.

 

More TIF oppertunities would have been good. I went on a Trike TIF & it was a great experience - sort of like vertical skydiving when trying to fly from the rear seat, though.

 

I did hear a few people who wanted better accomodation. Apparently there were houses to rent but not advertised anywhere so people drove in instead of flying in

 

Next year .. if I can get there.. I'd bring a mouse trap :) - overall I loved it but yes there is plenty of room to improve

 

Cheers

 

H

 

 

[flightygirl]

i enjoyed it.. though am disappointed that i missed meeting so many forumers who were there. as i didnt get in till friday afternoon i missed the coffee... definitely think saturday is the better day for that.

 

 

[bluey the fly]

Karen & I were there again this year. Making a last minute discision we didn't camp and found overnight accomodation at an old pub about 1/2 an hour out of Temora. Maybe the chance of rain kept a lot away.

 

Overall we had a good time with a few new aircraft to admire.

 

Feedback: we attended a presentation at 2.00 pm in hanger J on Saturday. Unfortunately the flying display went overtime and the aerobatic display drowned out the speaker. He had to keep stopping and going over some things. Also I don't know if there was a PA down the southern end of the field, but if there was it was not working.

 

If all goes well we will be back again next year. Thanks to the organisers.

 

Regards

 

Steven

 

 

[Guest aussie carl]

Special thanks to Temora UNICOM and Temora Ground.

 

 

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Karen & I were there again this year. Making a last minute discision we didn't camp and found overnight accomodation at an old pub about 1/2 an hour out of Temora. Maybe the chance of rain kept a lot away.Overall we had a good time with a few new aircraft to admire.

Feedback: we attended a presentation at 2.00 pm in hanger J on Saturday. Unfortunately the flying display went overtime and the aerobatic display drowned out the speaker. He had to keep stopping and going over some things. Also I don't know if there was a PA down the southern end of the field, but if there was it was not working.

 

If all goes well we will be back again next year. Thanks to the organisers.

 

Regards

 

Steven

Hey Mate sorry I missed you and Karen on Saturday- I headed home and made the most of the good weather and the brownie points.

 

Have you bought your own a/c yet?

 

 

[bushpilot]

I flew in from Bathurst on both Friday and Saturday - returning each evening. Missed Thursday instructors forum due to weather. My views:

 

• Landing and parking support - superb. (Brickbat to the RV pilot on Friday morning who joined witha minimal radio call and cut off a Jab on late final, forcing the Jab to go-around..)
   
   
  
• Exhibitors generally of good standard - and well staffed.
   
   
  
• Forums good.
   
   
  
• Needs more PA speakers near the runway fence, where most gather to watch.
   
   
  
• Need temporary street (finger) signs on the West end of each internal road with the forum hangars shown.
   
   
  
• Have a sun-shade in the middle of the open area 50m SW of the Temora Aero Club building with "Meeting Place" signage; to make it easier to find people or re-group after splitting up earlier.
   
   
  
• I never found the RAA registration tent. Nor the Cessna Skycatcher display - where was it?
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Hi Don...to answer your request for a synopsis on Keith Rules presentataion I will put forward what I can recall. Please correct me anyone who heard otherwise or add what I forgot.

 

I have no experience with the Jabaru what so ever but have heard both sides of the story as far as their reliability.

 

Keith said:

 

Jabiru have recently changed the hydraulic lifter system so the top end is now lubricated through hollow pushrods which has eliminated the need for the oil feed tube they always had. Apparently this has solved the problem of sticking valves apparently. The push rods have increased in thickness and the end ball sections are larger which has stopped the rods from sticking in the lifters causing problems. Apparently the old lifters were from a Holden engine.

 

Shell has advised that the usual oil (sorry cant recall) should not be used anymore as due to the small amount of oil in the Jab engine, it becomes contaminated with lead very quickly when using Avgas.

 

Keith suggested that the Jab prop is not so great and better results can be achieved using a different brand of prop which I dont recall he mentioned.

 

He spoke of the new coil which is off a Honda lawn mower.

 

He also spoke about the replacement of the bolts which has just been advised and I believe has to be done within 12 months. Depending on how many hours your engine has done determines if just the nuts need replacing or the whole bolt assembly. Apparently the whole bolt assembly replacement requires a complete strip of the engine.

 

He discussed the 3 different cranks available. Also any new engine will have all the modifications done now as one would expect.

 

There is an electronic ignition system being looked into.

 

The final question was what he thought of the water cooled heads available for the Jab and he stated not to buy any just yet. Read in to that what you want I guess. He stated a water cooled system would be better for the engine in the long run by keeping constant temps.

 

There were other things spoken about as well and I found Keith's presentation fantastic. I wish I knew what he had forgotten over his career! What he reinforced is that you NEED to stick to the servicing schedule at all times to improve your chances of a reliable engine.

 

Scotty:coffee:

 

 

[Owi]

I never found the RAA registration tent. Nor the Cessna Skycatcher display - where was it?

Mate,

 

I saw the Cessna guys doing what looked like a runner on Friday morning. Maybe they realised that people were actually going to touch their precious plane! Very poor commitment to potential sales if you ask me. I've scratched the C-162 off my shortlist because of this.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I also missed Keith Rule's Jabiru talk and would welcome any info from it.

 

 

[Powerin]

He spoke of the new coil which is off a Honda lawn mower.

Should be good! Honda mowers start first time every time!

 

 

[sfGnome]

i enjoyed it.. though am disappointed that i missed meeting so many forumers who were there. as i didnt get in till friday afternoon i missed the coffee... definitely think saturday is the better day for that.

Well, I saw FlightyGirl (the plane), even if I didn't see FlightyGirl (the real thing)! :big_grin:

 

 

[Powerin]

Yeah Gnome....saw savvy Flightygirl, but not Flightygirl because I caught up with you guys. The lure of Camp David was too strong. I must say it was interesting to see two knockabout blokes (Blackrod and David) suddenly turn into your consummate politicians when the opportunity arose. They were whipping out their business cards and election platforms faster than you could say "Carbon Cub"!

 

I'd like to put in a vote for a RecFly cuppa on Saturday as well.

 

Peter

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Don...your suggestion for things for the kids to do is a great one! They have done the same with the ladies program.

 

I know my 11 year old Son would think it was fantastic if he had something to attend specially for him. Things like a guided tour of the museum and a session on plane anatomy and flight controls and maybe the right way to wash a plane comes to mind. Nothing too in depth as they lose their concentration too quickly. Even one session a day would break it up for them. On the Friday I spent all day at the covering forum which was too much for him. He was a bit disconcerted by the end of that day having to entertain himself all day. I know he was hoping and praying the museum was going to drag a plane out and put on a little display.

 

I know in this day and age there need to be working with kids considerations and probably a minimum age of 8 or something as you dont want it as a child care session!

 

Maybe something to think about for next year.

 

Scotty :thumb_up: