Bernie Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Hi Joe, how bout a pic of your Nav-Aid Rule. Bernie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Hi Joe, how bout a pic of your Nav-Aid Rule.Bernie. Bernie, google it and you'll see photos with an explanation, where you can buy one and prices. I suspect this would totally solve your problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I have a Nav Aid, I don't really use it in flight, although I did find it useful as a learning tool. It would be fine to use in flight although space is a little tight in the Gazelle and I don't like to have too many bits and pieces rattling around. I did make a table of distances and correction angles which seems to work ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe bagnara Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Hi Joe, how bout a pic of your Nav-Aid Rule.Bernie. Have a look at [email protected] you can buy through the internet or they are sold by CASA shop. Sorry web address www.sifeba.com Regards, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Hey Turbo, I have one of those but you see it, has numbers on it and thats my problem, numbers. I can use it to a degree(pun) time and distance, but have to be shown each time before flight or its just another jumble of numbers. Bernie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Hey Turbo, I have one of those but you see it, has numbers on it and thats my problem, numbers.I can use it to a degree(pun) time and distance, but have to be shown each time before flight or its just another jumble of numbers. Bernie. Maybe someone else has been through the same problem and found a solution, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 It is all in Val Dyson-Holland's most excellent "Ground Training Manual - Cross Country Endorsement"! Only $70 from Val on 02 4325 0072. A very good textbook, workbook and reference book on the subject of Navigation, meteorology and flight planning and execution and has a couple of RAA XC trial exams. 1 in 60 is a ratio. the sine of 1 degree (opposite divided by hypotenuse) is 0.01745240643728351281941897851632 or 1 over 57.298688498550183476612683735161 ie around 1 over (in) 60 and is valid for inches, cubits, kms or miles (even steps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Ive never been impressed with that text book.We trialed it at our school, didn't work out too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Ive never been impressed with that text book.We trialed it at our school, didn't work out too good. What are you using now? I tried the GA books but they left a lot out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 joe..its not really a case of doing trigonometry in the air, its a simple multiplication. ive never been the best at maths, but the 1 in 60, is pure simplicity in the calculations......Paul....if you're still having dramas with the 1 in 60....a quick look at a thread from not long ago will surely help.... http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/6-minute-markers-and-the-1-in-60-rule-explained.20586/ liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I disagree Joe, the 1 in 60 is a very practical method to use in the cockpit, and no ruler is required. There is sure no need to measure 3 distances with a ruler. What do you do in turbulence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe bagnara Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm confused. How do you measure distances without some form of measuring devise? The three distances I allude to are: Distance flown, distance off-track and distance to fly. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Lots of ways Joe. If your track has distance markers you could use those, and just use the distance between your fingers to estimate distance. An estimate is surprisingly accurate. If your track has time markers you could use those for distance. You can know the distance of your thumb or fingers for various charts. You can score lines in your pencil. Or you can use proportions of your track against the known distance to your destination - eg. a third of the way along a 60 mile track is 20 miles, and there is 2/3rds of the way remaining (40 miles) - if you are 5 degrees off to the right, just turn 7.5 degrees left to get to your destination. Or if half way, with half remaining, just double your error, so if you are 5 degrees off, just turn 10 degrees the other way. That method needs absolutely no measurement at all. And if you can't look out and say you are approximately x miles off a town etc, you should be able to do so. Even military pilots are taught to do DR 1 in 60s, with no ruler, at much higher speeds than we use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Oh, and using that method doesn't require an autopilot, 2 hands, or spending so much time with your head down in the cockpit measuring that the aircraft is no longer near the original fix. You can still fly the aeroplane and look out of the window to scan for traffic! :big_grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 This is how I was taught to do it. Before departing draw your course on the map with marks at 15 miles or 30 miles depending on the speed of your aircraft' Pick out a landmark at that distance if possible. On reaching your first mark, let's say at 15 miles you estimate that you are 2 miles off track, then 2 miles at 15 would be 8 at 60 so you are 8 degrees off track. You now double this figure ( 16 degrees ) because 8 degrees will parallel your original course and another 8 degrees will get you back in another 15 miles. If you have let's say another 45 miles to your destination then you have to recalculate, not easy if your mental arithmetic is poor and it is better to regain your original course as soon as possible so stick to your 15 mile calculation. So how do you know how many miles you are off course without carrying some sort of measuring device? Easy, look at your verticle lines of longitude where each 'minute' is one nauticle mile and either visually or using your finger width measure the distance. It does not have to be dead accurate as you cannot accurately fly to within a degree or three anyway. You will of course have to alter your heading to regain your original one but I want to keep it simple so far. If it is difficult to pinpoint easily recognisable features on the map at 15 or 30 miles, try to find some at distances that will make your calculations easy such as 20 miles. Alan Marriette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Interesting note in CASA's Syllabus: PPL - Whilst the use of a map plotter is acceptable, students should be taught to employ mental dead reckoning and proportional techniques to solve in-flight navigational problems. CPL - A CPL student is also required to: mentally apply the one in sixty rule mentally revise estimates/ETA's estimate TR & ETI to a selected diversion point. Different techniques suit different people at different stages of their flying career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 joe...the 1 in 60 is not an exact science...it is 'deduced reckoning' therefor as it has been said before, the numbers dont need to be 100% spot on to give you the information you need to alter you course. it is actually quite practical in flight and also necessary to stop you from ending up however many miles away from your destination, without getting you into a 'lost' situation with another possibility of running out of fuel to 'find your position'. cfi...i believe that in the ra aus syllabus for pilot navigation it says that in the map reading you need to be able to 'select appropriate position lines to establish track error'...correct me if im wrong, but i take that to cover DR.... liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 lets have a look at 1.1.7©(11)...track error...also....with reference to a planned or given track and given appropriate data: determine track made good, calculate drift, determine alteration of heading to: parallel track, intercept track maintain track once it is intercepted...revise eta.....establish DR...... pretty sure that covers what is more commonly known to pilots than not.... as the 1 in 60.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 determines alteration of heading or HDG(M) to:(i) parallel track; (ii) intercept track at a nominated point; (iii) maintain track once track is intercepted. and another interesting note: " Whilst the use of a map plotter is acceptable, students should be taught to employ mental dead reckoning and proportional techniques . .." Of course, cficare is right. But why would an instructor not teach the 1 in 60 rule? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Even if not required! Learning to use the 1 in 60 rule is interesting and an advantage! As anyone who flies a Drifter would know, it is far more interesting and challenging,trying to put it to use in the air!..Things tend to get blown around a fair bit !!! Good mental dead reckoning is a must!!! Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 To the anti 1 in 60's How do you get back on track when you've been blown off course? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 To the anti 1 in 60'sHow do you get back on track when you've been blown off course? Maybe they call it the 2 in 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 and it is better to regain your original course as soon as possible It is? If 1 in 60's aren't your thing, why not just look out the window and point the aeroplane where you want to go? Compare your present position with what you are seeing on the map and adjust accordingly!:thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 The deafening silence tells me they are using the Chinese GPS method called Hope Soh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 That works for me most of the time, Howard, but doesn't work in some parts of the country and doesn't conform to the syllabus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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