RAAus Fails CASA Audit Again

[Teckair]

We already have that Richard. It is called RPL and RA Aus and following this recent debacle I see no reason why we won't lose many LSA types to VH experimental flying with RPLs and good luck to them.

OK David if someone can make RAA work as it is supposed to then good do it, but I have had little joy for some time now and have no confidence in the current set up. For years I thought the AUF was fine and was happy with it but that all stopped some time ago.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

People

 

Just updated my Earlier post re Adam Finn. Found out more info and a suggestion I made that the exec acted and the board either didnt know or ratified after the fact was wrong. I want discussions to be factual and will therefore point out errors if I know Ive made any. http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/raaus-fails-casa-audit-again.50744/page-26#post-253978

 

Andy

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I met and spoke with Adam at Monto. I fully expected to have some what shall we say a lively discussion on a few matters. I found him very open and quite knowledgeable on the areas I was interested in and said I would email him with the proposals and suggestions. he got back to me in a week and answered the questions with what I had expected and the views of the tech area on what I was wanting to find out. My opinion of him was certainly changed ( I was basing my opinion of him on what I had heard from others BEFORE I had actually met and spoken with him which we all know is not a good premise for things so I am guilty of this fact also) and the person who is a long time flyer who happenned to be with me when I was asking the questions also commented on how well it went and how open and frank he was. It is a real pity he has been used as a scapegoat by the ineffective and inadequate board and just shows how much we need to flush the crap out from the board and exec and start a fresh. Bring on the special meeting I will be there even if it means I have to jump on a plane to Canberra

 

 

[Guest nunans]

Maybe it is time to look at this as an opportunity for a rethink of recreational aviation's "placement" rather than leave it as a rehash of everything that went wrong last time. We have the opportunity to improve our pilot training, gain CTA access, welcome a whole host of new members (CASA Rec licence holders), allow larger aircraft for training and use, and improve our image as a responsible organisation.

mmmm, I can't say I agree at all.

 

-Improve pilot training? There's very little between them at the moment (weight and balance, ATC, 2hrs of basic instrument, bod& eod calcs) and we're supposed to be offering a way to learn to fly that's cheaper than PPL!! If you have PPL cash then nobody is stopping an RA member from gaining extra qualifications.

 

-Gain CTA access? Well we already have that if you want to spend some extra cash on your RA plane and a ppl

 

-Welcome the RPL holders? We already know them, they are the old AOPA GA guys who didn't like flying a plastic RA for six months after they couldn't renew thier class 2 but now can go back to flying thier 182 with an RPL

 

-Improve the image of our organisation? If we slide into bed with casa we won't be an organisation any longer. Besides improving our image should be fairly achieveable as it's not that great an image at the moment.

 

We need to keep owner maintanence as it is now for private use or there will be alot of RA planes around that have no value.

 

If an RA member doesn't like "the cheap version" of aviation (RA aus) then they can probably afford to maintain a VH aircraft and get a PPL and don't really need to be a part of this association. For the rest of us who do care about cost, We need RA aus to be the best it can be. (safe affordable skies for all)

 

 

[David Isaac]

Richard et al,

 

This situation is eminently fixable by the membership.

 

Now is the time to stand up and be counted. If we have the support to do so from the general membership we can dismiss the executive, put appropriate management in place (I actually suspect our high quality staff will rise to the occasion anyway) and set in motion constitutional changes that will put the framework in place to prevent such a future occurrence.

 

The Board makeup is a fundamental part of the management issues we face. If we have proper management in place we just need a small functional Board to set policy and ensure it is communicated through the management. We do NOT need an executive acting independent of the Board.

 

 

[dodo]

As usual, we have to rely on rumour and 2nd/3rd/4th hand information, but I have strong concerns over firing the staff, for what is clearly a long-standing management deficiency. If this costs the membership a fortune, I will be unhappy, but there is an ethical issue over who takes responsibility.

 

Adam took on a job where major issues existed, with whatever support he could get from the CEO and the board. I wouldn't be surprised if he left of his own accord.

 

However, if he was terminated, we need to know the reason. It seems that Steve Tizard has resigned to spend time with grandchildren. That's OK, but in that case, he is clearly not being held responsible by the board.

 

So the board remains responsible, unless they choose to blame someone recently employed, and under the supervision of the CEO and the board, for problems that clearly pre-existed.

 

Not very pretty.

 

On this alone, I would like information from the board. Bugger all chance of that, unless we add it to Andys@coffs reasons for a GM,

 

dodo

 

 

[winsor68]

IMOTHE problem today occurred because the AUF changed what it does to RAA... From my understanding and reading it was not "designed" to administer the new class of GA type Aircraft and the pilots who want the higher standards that go with them and this is the root cause of all the current problems...

I better amend that... It sounded like I meant "the pilots who want the higher standards...as the root cause of the current problem.. This was not my intention... I completely sympathise with everyone involved with this mess and don't think we really do have any "individual" to fault but rather the "culture" (seem that has become one of my favourite words lately!).... No one can blame GA pilots for wanting a less complex and thus less expensive path than under CASA... No one can blame any individual 95.10 roots proponent from wanting to be able to enjoy that sort of simple freedom...

 

 

[KR2 Alan Middleton]

This problem, like many others currently existing and just waiting to be 'found' by another crisis, has been brewing for many years. I am very familiar with the RA AUS organisation having been involved in it as a early member of the AUF, crash investigator, RA-AUS flying instructor, etc. I have many of the past and present senior staff and Board members. I wish to say to everyone please do not 'shoot the messenger' or else you make it very hard for individual staff and Board members to implement difficult change. The organisation is very able to take on administration of the RA-AUS and LSA sectors but will need to spend money to ensure improvements to its governance capability. All members just need to support this over the next few years and must be prepared to fund it by small increases in membership and other fees. Alan Middleton 0407356948 BluewaterAirport.com

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Alan I have to say I don't understand your post. The sentence starting " I have many of......." Can you review that something got lost at the fingers level I think.

 

With regard to shooting the messenger, which specific messenger(s) are you talking about?

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

No matter what you meant it's my view that we almost need to have an amnesty period to discover all of the various messes and make them known to members. If we need to come clean to CASA and agree a way to resolve common problems then that's what responsible managers do. Managers who public state " alls well nothing to see here move along!!" While trying to do some quiet clean up with no one the wiser invariably find that they get caught and trust is lost from members and key stakeholders......anyone think of a case in point to illustrate the point!!!!!

 

 

[Gentreau]

..... All members just need to support this over the next few years and must be prepared to fund it by small increases in membership and other fees. .....

Not weeks, not months, YEARS !!

 

Not sure how close to the centre of RA-Aus you are Alan, but if what you say is accurate, then that phrase alone gives an alarming indication of the real extent of the problems !!

 

.

 

 

[Pete Greed]

What an amazing thread this is - a mixture of governance debate intertwined with operations and management issues, all going everywhere.... A bloody dogs breakfast. It's the very thing that goes wrong when membership does not respect or hold its leadership to account. So many opinions and good ideas that never get refined into useful policy.

 

We are all responsible for this mess for not being proactive in demanding accountability from our board/committee and its management. Sure that has been difficult, as many of us have experienced, but lets be positive and work with what we have. A proper strategic plan will provide a platform for restructure and ensure that the talent already on-board can continue to contribute. The experience, expertise and talent of our members (including board/committee members) will always be there but how can it be harnessed for the good of the movement? CASA will also still be there, believe it or not!

 

Governance direction and clear strategic thinking is what a general meeting should be demanding. Get that right and the operational stuff will follow. The old footy club style of management committee, enjoyed in the past by so many, is, I am sorry, dead in the water

 

Pete

 

 

[Tiger]

I have been off line for a day and it appears that all hell has broken loose in Canberra looking at the threads.. I agree with Captain the rat and am397. Hopefully there is someone out there that can help get us out of this mess. I don't like what I read about the Ex CEO coming back. He couldn't do it before he was CEO, has stuffed RAA since he has been the CEO so why wouldn't he further stuff this one.

 

I was going to swing over fully to RAA now think I will keep my GA license so I can fly.

 

GOOD BYE for good Tizzo.

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

As usual, we have to rely on rumour and 2nd/3rd/4th hand information, but I have strong concerns over firing the staff, for what is clearly a long-standing management deficiency. If this costs the membership a fortune, I will be unhappy, but there is an ethical issue over who takes responsibility.Adam took on a job where major issues existed, with whatever support he could get from the CEO and the board. I wouldn't be surprised if he left of his own accord.

 

However, if he was terminated, we need to know the reason. It seems that Steve Tizard has resigned to spend time with grandchildren. That's OK, but in that case, he is clearly not being held responsible by the board.

 

So the board remains responsible, unless they choose to blame someone recently employed, and under the supervision of the CEO and the board, for problems that clearly pre-existed.

 

Not very pretty.

 

On this alone, I would like information from the board. Bugger all chance of that, unless we add it to Andys@coffs reasons for a GM,

 

dodo

Ring your Board Member and ask them. I did.

 

 

[Gentreau]

I have a question for you guys.

 

Where are the flying clubs in all this debacle ?

 

Surely they represent more people and can put more pressure on the board or regional reps of RA-Aus as they should have a louder voice than any one individual?

 

If the board are not performing their duties to members as laid down by the constitution (eg. publishing accounts) why are they not pressing them for the information ?

 

Is it out of fear of upsetting the boat, or some other reason ??

 

Or am I incorrectly assuming that you have a similar club setup to France and the UK....?

 

.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Its an Australian epidemic

 

 

[turboplanner]

This problem, like many others currently existing and just waiting to be 'found' by another crisis, has been brewing for many years. I am very familiar with the RA AUS organisation having been involved in it as a early member of the AUF, crash investigator, RA-AUS flying instructor, etc. I have many of the past and present senior staff and Board members. I wish to say to everyone please do not 'shoot the messenger' or else you make it very hard for individual staff and Board members to implement difficult change. The organisation is very able to take on administration of the RA-AUS and LSA sectors but will need to spend money to ensure improvements to its governance capability. All members just need to support this over the next few years and must be prepared to fund it by small increases in membership and other fees. Alan Middleton 0407356948 BluewaterAirport.com

 

What messenger? What message?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I was thinking that choosing groups of reps from towns instead of states would be a better way to run the RAA. and move from state based responsibility to function based management.

 

 

[John G]

As cficare and fly_tornado have observed the problem is APATHY! Read again what I posted on 23 September 2010.

 

I just wish I coul;d pick Lotto numbers with the same crystal ball.

 

The while sorry mess could have been avoided if apathy had not reined supreme; but then its the Australian way!

 

JG

 

In fairness I have tried to stay neutral and let the "newbies" have a go before I waded back into the fray.

 

What is happening to our great organisation over recent times is not palatable to even the most apathetic member. We have seen our standing as an organisation diminish in recent times; CASA is re-asserting control and takeover designs on the most successful member aviation organisation to date. If they have their way we will go the way of GA and wither on the vine.

 

From the latest Board meeting I believe we will see an increase in fees and all manner of excuses on why the fees are justified. As members you will have noted a marked drop off in turn-around times and services offered. If you have been following some of the board member’s blogs then you will have seen that RA-Aus wages bill has exploded by several hundred percent while member services have declined

 

If you haven’t been offended and insulted by the latest offering by our CEO and President in our latest magazine then you have a thicker skin than I do.

 

No, I have no intention of running for office again! I can only handle being kicked in the guts once! But member apathy as I alluded to in my July 2008 President’s column has come to fruition. I have included that column below so that you don’t have to search through your old magazines. For more recent members who want to research some of the history read www.gardon.com.au

 

I have had my go and run out of steam; but I implore all members to take an active interest in your organisation and have a say otherwise we will end up like ALL other aviation organisations/clubs/ bodies in Australia in the past. Don’t say you were not warned when you lose your flying privileges!

 

"reprint of President's Column July 2008"

 

The Good!

 

The Bad!

 

The Ugly!

 

Now who could I be talking about? ..Me ? .. You? ...You all? ....Us ?....RAAus?

 

If we were to stop and think about it we all go through phases in our lives where the heading describes us all. I would like you all to bear with me as I walk you through what I think are the strengths and weaknesses of our organisation and reflect on where we should be heading as an organisation.

 

The Good.

 

We are aviators that enjoy the spontaneity and freedom to fly for the pure FUN and enjoyment that has only been the realm of birds for centuries past. In just one hundred years we have seen the joy of flight turned from one of Joy, wonderment and exhilaration that should be shared to one of the most over regulated pursuits.

 

Fare paying passengers have an expectation of arriving at their destination without death or injury and therefore CASA rightly imposes a hefty regulatory oversight and burden on those that wish to carry passengers for payment.

 

We that fly for FUN also expect to enjoy our pursuit with an expectation of returning home to our families at the end of the day; and therefore some form of regulation is required to ensure sufficient margins of safety are included in the way we fly and maintain our aeroplanes.

 

The only way to achieve complete safety would be to keep all aircraft securely locked up in hangars or spend enormous sums of money on triple redundant systems that can only guarantee that risks are reduced to a more acceptable one in a million as in the passenger carrying world. RA-Aus members, as informed participants, are willing to accept a higher level of risk to be able to fly at an affordable cost by accepting responsibility to operate their aircraft within a reduced regulatory environment that requires their active participation in mitigating and reducing risk.

 

RA-Aus has benefited from a great many people contributing their expertise and time to develop skills and expertise in minimum flying over the years to develop recreational flying to where it is today. Peer development, supervision, oversight and acceptance of responsibility was the cornerstone that enabled the acceptance of recreational flying in the community. The lesson was quickly learned that irresponsible acts of a few could jeopardise the freedoms of the rest of the responsible flyers and peer summary justice was often swift against recalcitrant miscreant pilots.

 

The Bad

 

How many times in our own experiences have we seen clubs prosper and then suddenly disappear after a change of leadership and personality politics. The very things that make a club strong and vibrant can also conspire to bring about its undoing. The fact that a strong vibrant club can disappear overnight due to a well meaning individual is catastrophic for a small community. In time the club usually re-forms and re-builds with a lot of hard work and talented people to fill the void created by the previous collapse. Unfortunately in the “club environment “ willing workers contributing their skills in an honorary capacity do so to the point of burnout or until personal commitments prevent them from continuing on. Mix into this recipe, politics and personalities, we end up on a treadmill of boom and bust of many community based clubs.

 

The “flying club” structure has served RA-Aus extremely well in the past. Having a bunch of people with the same common goal of having FUN flying with minimal regulation and minimal cost was the genesis of the AUF/RA-Aus. In the early days, the fight to win the right to fly outside the established over regulated and costly options available at the time unified members who understood that joint acceptance of responsibility, sometimes at the expense of personal displays of exuberance, was essential for survival of the organisation so that ALL could continue to fly for FUN with a minimum of restrictions.

 

The flying freedoms won by our earlier members and pioneers have obviously been seen as attractive for an increasing number of pilots. We have seen an enviable increase in membership numbers, however with the increase comes new management challenges. Adding to these management challenges is the influx of members that are happy to accept the hard won privileges gained by previous members without accepting the co-commitment responsibilities.

 

The consequences of RA-Aus going out of business due to apathy or personality politics is unthinkable and a luxury we cannot afford. It has happened in other aviation organisations with terminal consequences. Traditionally when we hold elections we have less than 10% of the membership lodging a vote even though they are provided with a post paid envelope and pre-printed ballot paper. Poor member participation could be interpreted as good old Aussie apathy when members are happy with the status quo.

 

In a benign environment, apathy is not in itself debilitating but it does open the door to having the organisation hijacked by a vocal minority that may not have the experience and expertise to keep the organisation focussed on ensuring our continued access to safe affordable aviation with minimum of regulation.

 

The Ugly,

 

More and more as we grow we are seeing an increasing number of members that seem to think that the rules don’t apply to them or that they deserve special treatment. When they disagree with the umpire’s decision they resort to litigation that requires them and us spending huge sums on legal fees usually to achieve the same result. Organisations run along club or membership based rules are particularly vulnerable to renegade member exploitation using litigation.

 

Worst still, we have a very small percentage of members who engage in abusing our office staff when they are unhappy with a particular decision or outcome. Our office staff are some of the most dedicated and hardest working folk I have witnessed anywhere in the country. We cannot afford to have a small minority of unthinking members jeopardise the retention of our staff.

 

The Future?

 

It is not all gloomy! RA-Aus is a strong vibrant organisation that has a great spirit and member support that is witnessed at Natfly and all round the country every day and weekend where more people are out flying for FUN then ever before.

 

I hope that this column stimulates debate on whether a corporate structure would better protect our interests into the future as we continue to grow from our humble beginnings. No the Board and I do not have any plans to move in that direction, but I do want the members to give a long hard think of what they expect from RA-Aus and what are the threats to our survival into the future.

 

Have FUN flying and accept the co-commitment responsibilities that go with it.

 

 

[AM397]

Yep you are off your rocker.

I was hoping for more than what you were able to muster, and actually be told why. You know: An actual, formed argument that might be able to convince me.

 

 

[Guest john]

To All Interested RAAus Members.

 

An email was sent to our President this evening with the following queries & responses:

 

1. What are the casual duties the retired CEO is to perform for RAAus after he has resigned?

 

The Presidents response: "There has been nothing arranged with Steve T for future employment. On his email informing us of his resignation he did state that he was available for employment afterwards if required . The Board way of thinking is that there is work for him, which is to update & align all the publications. However, nothing has been decided & this has yet to be discussed."

 

2. Did the Tech Manager resign of his own accord because of the mess the RAAus are in, or was he asked to resign by any Board Member or staff member?

 

The Presidents response: " The employment for Adam Finn was terminated by majority decision of the Board".

 

I rest my case:tongue in cheek:.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Powerin]

It would be instructive to consider how we arrived at this situation. We have had many pages of posts, probably correctly, blaming Board incompetence.

 

But who put the board together? WE, the members, did! And we have had several years of elections to be able to correct the situation. Yet it didn't happen. True, we elect our boards within the confines of the rules that are the constitution, but we also have the power to change the constitution and fortunately that has happened to some extent lately due to the hard work of a very few members such as Andy.

 

So...what needs to change if we the members cannot be trusted to vote in a competent board? Voter apathy is a fact of life, I believe, and we have to compensate for this somehow. Many non-profit boards (including one I am a member of) are ditching the idea of regional representation and concentrating hard on getting people with skills to volunteer. This is not as democratic....but I believe pure democracy has not served RAAus well. It is ironic that when we did finally vote in some people with skills, they didn't last long.

 

To sum up, perhaps a non-profit incorporated association, with a popularly elected regionally represented board is not a model that suits the RAAus. They are not just some club executive, they are a delegated regulatory authority that has some pretty heavy duty (and convoluted) laws and regulations to follow and enforce. Something has to change, what we have is not working. We can have a clean sweep and sack the lot of them....but how can we be sure the Board we next vote in will be any better?

 

EDIT: There have been complaints about the Board executive.....an executive exists to take care of decisions that arise and need to be taken care of between board meetings. Given there is 6 months between board meetings this gives the executive a whole lot of latitude. It will cost us a lot more...but as has been said before, an organisation the size and budget of RAAus needs a lot more than two face to face board meetings a year!

 

 

[winsor68]

I have a question for you guys.Where are the flying clubs in all this debacle ?

 

Surely they represent more people and can put more pressure on the board or regional reps of RA-Aus as they should have a louder voice than any one individual?

 

Or am I incorrectly assuming that you have a similar club setup to France and the UK....?

 

.

You are incorrect in assuming Oz has a club structure... it should have but a few years ago the club side was pushed aside by CFI Owned/Run Commercial Flying Schools. IMO this has been obvious and is the direct cause of these problems.

 

 

[eightyknots]

To All Interested RAAus Members.An email was sent to our President this evening with the following queries & responses:

 

1. What are the casual duties the retired CEO is to perform for RAAus after he has resigned?

 

The Presidents response: "There has been nothing arranged with Steve T for future employment. On his email informing us of his resignation he did state that he was available for employment afterwards if required . The Board way of thinking is that there is work for him, which is to update & align all the publications. However, nothing has been decided & this has yet to be discussed."

 

2. Did the Tech Manager resign of his own accord because of the mess the RAAus are in, or was he asked to resign by any Board Member or staff member?

 

The Presidents response: " The employment for Adam Finn was terminated by majority decision of the Board".

 

I rest my case:tongue in cheek:.

 

Cheers

 

John

John, I appreciate you keeping us up to date with 'from-the-horse's-mouth' information, rather than rumour and speculation. Mind you, due to a dearth of information via official channels, it's no wonder that so much speculation has arisen. Thanks again .

 

 

[AM397]

But who put the board together? WE, the members, did! And we have had several years of elections to be able to correct the situation. Yet it didn't happen. True, we elect our boards within the confines of the rules that are the constitution, but we also have the power to change the constitution and fortunately that has happened to some extent lately due to the hard work of a very few members such as Andy.

So...what needs to change if we the members cannot be trusted to vote in a competent board? Voter apathy is a fact of life, I believe, and we have to compensate for this somehow. Many non-profit boards (including one I am a member of) are ditching the idea of regional representation and concentrating hard on getting people with skills to volunteer. This is not as democratic....but I believe pure democracy has not served RAAus well. It is ironic that when we did finally vote in some people with skills, they didn't last long.

I'm sorry, but blaming the members for not being able to vote in the right people is unfair. The problem is, that RA-Aus has been less than forthcoming when it comes to divulging details of occuring problems, or in fact, most any information at all. How would the average member know, not only that there was a problem, but what kind of problem and who was responsible without any information to go on at all?

 

Seriously, blaming the members in this farce is bull as far as I'm concerned, and it sure as heck won't motivate people to become more active and vote, if the blame for RA-Aus incompetence is shifted to them.