Virago Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Back when I had my Beech Sundowner, a good friend (and excellent instructor) taught my wife to fly circuits and land. It was fun watching them because she got real good at it! Unfortunately, she declined to be taught to land the Debonair so that was the end of her flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Back when I had my Beech Sundowner, a good friend (and excellent instructor) taught my wife to fly circuits and land. It was fun watching them because she got real good at it! Unfortunately, she declined to be taught to land the Debonair so that was the end of her flying. Offer her a reward. Richard Burton did to Elizabeth Taylor-multi million dollar diamond rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Kaz the problem with the Auster is the "bouncy" undamped bungee chorded Undercarriage. The rotten things can get up so serious a bounce even on take-off that you either have to pull it into the air and fly in ground effect for a while or close the tap and give the takeoff away. I see quite a few people doing funny things near the ground. Most seem to try wheelers all the time, and put on a bit of a show at times. When there really weren't any nosewheel planes (except things like the Chrisley's) The Auster was just another aeroplane. Turbs, I thought it was a white rat! H H do a one pointer and it will bounce. ( with a N/W). Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Kaz the problem with the Auster is the "bouncy" undamped bungee chorded Undercarriage. The rotten things can get up so serious a bounce even on take-off that you either have to pull it into the air and fly in ground effect for a while or close the tap and give the takeoff away...Nev Hi Nev I found the "problem" very early in the scheme of things and now, with about 250 hours on Austers (left and right hand engine rotation) I'm about half way to being a fair to middling driver of them. (No smileys on iPad so imagine a huge grin stuck in here). And they no doubt were just another aircraft back in the early 40's and on, but TW aircraft generally moved pretty quickly to NW configurations for the very reason that tricycle gear is a lot more forgiving. The conversion of Austers to Beagles is a case in point. The demonstrated max crosswind went up from 9 to 15 knots, a two thirds increase just by sticking that ugly Nosewheel out front. Mr Piper (whose company standard bearer also grew from a Taylor design) moved to the Colt and Tripacer, while Cessna brought out its metal fuselage models with Nosewheel and we began to see the concurrent demise of fabric as the common covering. I've flown a few different TW aircraft and I find nothing keeps you so honest as landing an Auster with a bit of crosswind. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I am now feeling very clever and hence 'big headed' because I learned to fly in an Auster. There being only one runway and on the top of an island it was nearly always windy, gusty and invariably cross wind to some extent but I had a good ex RAF instructor and I coped very well and had lots of fun learning. We always did three pointers unless the cross wind was fairly strong so wheelers were the order of the day so flying the Auster was perfectly normal for me as I didn't know any different. Taxiing was more difficult in high winds. Back to the 'Topic' some of the wives undertook around 10 hours of flying With An Instructor for the above mentioned reasons with one moving on to get her full GA license. Alan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Keep the wing down and land on tailwheel and into wind wheel. When the nosewheels came out a lot who love to land fast to make it easier, made like a wheel barrow and mucked them up. How bad was that? I had difficulty believing , at the time, that anyone could fly that badly.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I think that the benefit to having a spouse receive any sort of training, is that it would help to demystify aviation in their eyes, maybe remove some of the fear/instill some confidence so that it is more enjoyable for the both of you. And while I wouldn't trust anything short of a full certificate and currency that they'd be able to land it perfectly, I can see where certainly having something is better than nothing... understanding the concept is most of the battle, with application and practice being the rest of it, and rather they get it down safely, even on its side, rather than nose first into a hill - its not a carrier landing we are talking about here! But if its worth doing, its worth doing right, and i wouldn't put my wife under the pressure of expectation with any less training than i have had. Not fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Unless your wife/partner really wants to learn some basics - you're only leading the proverbial horse to water! The younger they are - the more likely they'll be interested, and feel capable of learning. Fatalism reigns in the Baby Boomers! Of course you must use an instructor. Of course an instructor can teach from the LHS-we're completely ambidextrous. Instructors also understand just how difficult it can be to fly the aircraft 'cross-cockpit' where it's not easy to reach switches or see screen/gauge readouts clearly from the RHS. Where you might begin with an interested partner, is to teach them how to 'navigate', ie how to read a map, recognise features, and...... learn the GPS basics. Then - if they are still keen - get the instructor to do the flying and radio stuff as per the book. happy days, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68volksy Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Plenty of schools do the "survival" style course for partners. Teraya at the school in Goulburn has done it with quite a few partners. Keep in mind that the situation is an absolutely real emergency situation. If the pilot's collapsed the passenger needs to fly the plane, navigate and communicate. The quicker they can get it on the ground and the pilot to an ambulance the better their chances. Don't bother trying to train her yourself - there's too many variables to consider that not even the most bold level of arrogance will counteract. Get an instructor to show her the basics about how to put it on the ground. Generally in the courses they won't go solo but the instructor gets them to a standard where they will be able to put it down in an emergency, and handle the necessary emergency radio calls and transponder codes - handy if the pilot's just had a heart attack and require an ambulance. Sometimes there is some navigational work thrown in but it's less necessary if you can get on the radio to ATC as soon as possible to declare an emergency. The radio work is the most important in many respects. There's a great story out there about the wife whose husband collapsed taking the controls of the aircraft they were in. She had no idea how to fly but she had picked up how to talk on the radio. Another pilot in the vicinity was current in the aircraft she was flying and managed to talk her all the way down to the airport where all the ambulances and fire engines were waiting. From memory the landing was messy but they both survived. That's the focus in these situations that only an instructor can teach. There is little focus on the aircraft being able to fly again - just getting the plane down without any real damage to the occupants. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Of course you will get different results from different trainees. Even if the wife is only trained to fly straight and level, that's beter than nothing. She will have no trouble decending once the fuel runs out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketing Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Well, I asked my instructor to take my wife and son up for a quick 0.4 flight each before I did my solo. It is amazing to see how this helped them to become more involved in my training experience as well as actually looking forward to fly with me as before they were not sure what to expect. It will be up to my wife to complete a course if she wishes to do so but my son will definitely do so when he is old enough. (Another 2 years) What will be easier though is that they will become use to the correct "look and feel" when we need to land and if I keep them informed with what I am doing I am sure they will eventually 'get the picture'. It doesn't mean that they will be able to execute it the same way but that will give them a better than nothing chance. Also, just the mindset that an instructor showed them the basics makes it so much easier to discuss as there are no arguments / confusion. Just my 2c and way of approaching this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 What about the sink or swim method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 What about the "right" method Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I'm with Motz on this. There have been schemes from time to time and you can argue without currency etc you won't do much of a job. Do you ever forget how to ride a bike? Someone with some flying training HAS to be better than with none. I don't think you lose the basics of flying either. I've flown people who have had NO previous flying other than Radio controlled models and I reckon you would get them solo in about 3 hours. I'm not speaking as though they all would. Anyhow a good instructor is what is required and whether you do the lot or a part would be up to you. You wouldn't need to do the nav perhaps. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 What about the "right" method Boy my head hurts. I only asked about the sink or swim method and didn't endorse it-touchy:duck for cover: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Very touchy, u still haven't retracted your earlier "endorsement" of this method, so it just adds to the pile;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Very touchy, u still haven't retracted your earlier "endorsement" of this method, so it just adds to the pile;) Next I am going be told to sit behind the blackboard. Will bring back old memories......of others who went there. I have also been listening to some of your symphonies-when are you going to write another one? With reference to the topic, Which pile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Saph, I know i take a hard line with this sort of thing. And while it may seem trivial and amusing to you, its actually a very serious subject that should not be underplayed.Especially by a commercial pilot (if thats what you are) in a public domain. I make no apologies for the line I have taken in this thread and others. While I generally enjoy your post's and your input, I have a line in the sand between good humour and downright dangerous and irresponsible advice coming from seemingly experienced pilots/ Commercial pilots/ instructors...What ever category you fall into ;). Are you a current commercial pilot? Instructor? HAve you ever been any of these in the past. Im genuinely interested, im not trying to be derogatory. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 No, no, yes. I take a hard line on safety. Read my posts on thread, Preflight Checks-What Do You Find ,which I bring back on a regular basis. It discusses everything from fuel, engines, airfrfame, to a cat with buttered toast strapped to it's back. Now I am going to shock you. In general discussion with pilots over the last 34 years it comes up on a regular basis that so and so pilot gave the controls for a short time to a non flying friend, someone looking to buy a plane who will soon get his lic., to a wife or other family member, etc I didn't give it much thought until the subject came up here. Oviously it is not a good policy to promote and is technically illegal, but in the privacy of their a/c, pilots do it. If they are going to do it, then it should be done to maximum benfit by teaching the wife, or who they fly with the most, at high altitude a bit on how to fly. Of course this is illegal and should not be done and get an instructor to teach your wife or friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushpilot Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I never said do it yourself... but it may be difficult to find an instructor that is happy in the LH seat.. I know lots that can only fly comfortably in the RH seat even tho all the fly dials are LH seat.Surely even "effects of controls" for your wife/pax builds in a level of safety for aircrew as well as civilians on the ground if there is an issue?? I do not know of one instructor that is unhappy in the LH seat.. How do you think we teach our budding instructors? They sit in the RH, we sit in the LH. And usually when we are solo flying - or flying with pax, we sit in LH seat. Get her an instructor. Or better still, encourage your school or aero club to run a program for several partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 No, no, yes. I take a hard line on safety. Read my posts on thread, Preflight Checks-What Do You Find ,which I bring back on a regular basis. It discusses everything from fuel, engines, airfrfame, to a cat with buttered toast strapped to it's back. Now I am going to shock you. In general discussion with pilots over the last 34 years it comes up on a regular basis that so and so pilot gave the controls for a short time to a non flying friend, someone looking to buy a plane who will soon get his lic., to a wife or other family member, etc I didn't give it much thought until the subject came up here. Oviously it is not a good policy to promote and is technically illegal, but in the privacy of their a/c, pilots do it. If they are going to do it, then it should be done to maximum benfit by teaching the wife, or who they fly with the most, at high altitude a bit on how to fly. Of course this is illegal and should not be done and get an instructor to teach your wife or friend. What a sneaky hypocritical statement. I take it that you are endorsing an illegal act, and are quite happy to have blood on your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 What a sneaky hypocritical statement. I take it that you are endorsing an illegal act, and are quite happy to have blood on your hands. That is rediculous nonsense. It says several times to get an instructor and not try instructing yourself. I hope you are faster on the uptake in flying than reading posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I'm fast enough to identify three statements "Others are doing it" , "Go out and do this (wink wink), and "Of coursed it is illegal" That's the equivalent of "Others are using the saw without the guard", "You'll get faster production if you leave it off", "Of course that would be illegal" Why don't you show this to a Workcover Inspector as see how fast on the uptake he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Yea, advocating it with a wink and a nod and then saying its illegal... Pretty low quality posting there saph. Was the no, no yes in answer to my questions? So no, your not a commercial pilot. No your not an instructor?. But you have been in the past?.. is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Yes, yes, yes, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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