Compulsion Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 My wife and I own a J170 and intend to do some travels. I think it would be good for my wife to learn how to land our aircraft incase something happens to me in flight. She does not want a certificate it is just a safety thing.i know she will have to join the club we have our hangar at and also I believe she must join RAAUS also to be able to get lessons. This becomes very expensive to just be safe Incase. The issue I have is that she will always have to pay just to stay current just incase. What does everyone else do? I just thought that I will also have to change my insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 This becomes very expensive to just be safe Incase. Welcome to aviation.. Lots of places do Spouse training. And yep, to get more than 3 hours she will have to Join the RAA. The training could be done in your own aircraft which would save you considerable $$. If its something that is on your mind, then how much is peace of mind worth?.. It not only helps in the event of some catastrophy, but also gives the partner a much better idea whats going on, and the result is 2 pilots in the plane rather than one..;)..Which can only be a good thing..(to a point) cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Welcome to aviation.. Lots of places do Spouse training. And yep, to get more than 3 hours she will have to Join the RAA. The training could be done in your own aircraft which would save you considerable $$. If its something that is on your mind, then how much is peace of mind worth?.. It not only helps in the event of some catastrophy, but also gives the partner a much better idea whats going on, and the result is 2 pilots in the plane rather than one..;)..Which can only be a good thing..(to a point) cheers I dunno about 2 pilots being in the same aircraft as husband & wife. My ex wife was a pilot after I got her involved in aviation. Well you have heard about back seat driving .I got back seat flying .LOL Seriously though, great idea to get your spouse to learn how to land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Why don't you teach her with the claytons instructional flights. The instructional flights you do when you don't. In other word, give her some lessons yoursef so she is good enough to do a survivable landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Why don't you teach her with the claytons instructional flights. The instructional flights you do when you don't.In other word, give her some lessons yoursef so she is good enough to do a survivable landing. Or NOT!!!!!!... Dam saph... Sequence of actions: 1. Engage brain 2. Type 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Or NOT!!!!!!... Dam saph... Sequence of actions:1. Engage brain 2. Type I'll take that as a compliment:hug: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Or you could take it OFF the public forum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av8vfr Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I know when I flew GA my flying club had WAGs (Wives & Girlfriends) intro to flying... nothing too technical, just how to fly and land from RH seat. Even a bit of radio work... nothing as per book, just plain speaking on frequency. Surely wouldn't be too hard for a RH seat pax to "feel" a landing or two while PIC did some circuits. After all, I did my solo under 10 hrs.. and they were not circuit hours.. Could be the difference between one injury (like a pilot side birdstrike) or two fatalities... Note: I couldn't get my missus to do it so not for everyone. Some just want to be pax and no more.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Yea, thats great, get an instructor and you can do it safely and LEGALLY.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I know when I flew GA my flying club had WAGs (Wives & Girlfriends) intro to flying... nothing too technical, just how to fly and land from RH seat. Even a bit of radio work... nothing as per book, just plain speaking on frequency. Surely wouldn't be too hard for a RH seat pax to "feel" a landing or two while PIC did some circuits. After all, I did my solo under 10 hrs.. and they were not circuit hours..Could be the difference between one injury (like a pilot side birdstrike) or two fatalities... Note: I couldn't get my missus to do it so not for everyone. Some just want to be pax and no more.. I was just going to get into that. Just have the spouce follow along on the landings and teach a bit solo flying at 4000 feet. Even pretend there is a runway at 4000 feet and practice on that. Check for local traffic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 FFS.. You blokes right are ya? Hows about no, you dont let your pax near the controls, as per the regs. Remember them?? Sure you've heard of them.. The old "rules"... ?? Compulsion, dont listen to this dribble. If you want her taught properly, get an Instructor to do it. DONT try and do it yourself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compulsion Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Golden rule in my book is if you don't want to get divorced don't try and teach your wife anything. Let her yell at an instructor not me. LOL. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av8vfr Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 FFS.. You blokes right are ya? Hows about no, you dont let your pax near the controls, as per the regs. Remember them?? Sure you've heard of them.. The old "rules"... ??Compulsion, dont listen to this dribble. If you want her taught properly, get an Instructor to do it. DONT try and do it yourself... I never said do it yourself... but it may be difficult to find an instructor that is happy in the LH seat.. I know lots that can only fly comfortably in the RH seat even tho all the fly dials are LH seat. Surely even "effects of controls" for your wife/pax builds in a level of safety for aircrew as well as civilians on the ground if there is an issue?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Talk to Karl, see what he has to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I know lots that can only fly comfortably in the RH seat even tho all the fly dials are LH seat.. that scares me almost as much as teaching your wife/partner to fly.... and yes, i have taught my partner, at the time, to fly... but i hold a Senior instructor rating... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 FFS.. You blokes right are ya? Hows about no, you dont let your pax near the controls, as per the regs. Remember them?? Sure you've heard of them.. The old "rules"... ??Compulsion, dont listen to this dribble. If you want her taught properly, get an Instructor to do it. DONT try and do it yourself... Dearest Motzart, We know you are well intended. We are not looking at sending the wife solo-just some more capability in an emergency. If she can fly somewhat straight and level, decend, do turns and maintain a rough airspeed, thats better than the plane going completely out of control. You need some relaxing classical music to calm your nerves. BTW, what is FFS:crying: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Dearest? Ok Saph. Ill put it a different way. You are not permitted to let your pax take control of the aircraft. Regardless of what the intention of the exercise or the pax's relationship to you. This is a public forum. Things you say are NOT private, but are infact visable to the entire internet community. Hows about NOT making RAA pilots out to be a bunch of rule breaking cowboys, for the whole world to see.(aswel as various CFI's, RaAus Ops personel, CASA compliance officers etc) Wink bloody wink, nod bloody nod... My nerves are calm my friend. The poster asked a question, the answer to that question is NOT to tech her yourself. Capiche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 At RACWA they used to run Pilot Partner courses which were aimed exactly at what Compulsion said - giving partners of pilots enough instruction (theory and practice) over two days, to hopefully give them some chance of getting a plane down in an emergency. It was about $700-$800 as I recall - not cheap. This was some years ago and I'm not sure if they are still running them. My wife was working at the aero club at the time and did the course, well before I even thought about getting my licence. She even has a log book to prove it. Like everything though, if you don't practice what you've learned, it won't stick. rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ok motzart, Lets work out the lesser of two evils. Evil no.1 is you collapse at the controls and your wife cannot fly and so you have two fatalities. Evil no. 2 is you illegally teach your wife a bit of flying. Again you collapse at the controls but your wife is able to bounce the a/c into a field. Your chance's of survival have dramatically improved. A commercial examiner I had told me at times in your flying you will have to break the rules. It's up to you to decide if you are still safe enough. This is an example of having an experienced capable pilot break the rules to improve safety. You have to honestly appraise yourself-having lots of hours only doesn't make you a good pilot. Also, another point to make is if you make it cheap enough more wives will be taught and have ongoing instruction to remain current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahlocks Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Jill at Temora aero club was trying to get something happening along these lines. i.e. a flying partners (survival) style course. Not sure what eventuated though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ok motzart,Lets work out the lesser of two evils. Evil no.1 is you collapse at the controls and your wife cannot fly and so you have two fatalities. Evil no. 2 is you illegally teach your wife a bit of flying. Again you collapse at the controls but your wife is able to bounce the a/c into a field. Your chance's of survival have dramatically improved. A commercial examiner I had told me at times in your flying you will have to break the rules. It's up to you to decide if you are still safe enough. This is an example of having an experienced capable pilot break the rules to improve safety. You have to honestly appraise yourself-having lots of hours only doesn't make you a good pilot. Also, another point to make is if you make it cheap enough more wives will be taught and have ongoing instruction to remain current. Yea ..Thats fantastic mate...Take it up with the powers that be, casue the rules are what they are..I dont care what some examiner told you or how competent a pilot you think you are. You forgot about the 3rd evil. Your wife stuffs up the flare, you arent trained, experienced or competent in catching it, and you smash and SHE gets killed but you dont.. Good luck sleeping for the rest of your life. All to save a few bucks. Or you could stick to the rules and get an instructor to teach her.. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naremman Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Yours is a sound line of thought Compulsion. What appears comparatively simple does not always turn out to be always so simple. The nett result that would be acceptable would be that whatever the eventuallity, survival takes precedence. If you are still around to survey a bingled aircraft, and or filling out a ream of paperwork following the transgression of the rules, at least you are alive to complain!! There is the advice that you should not teach your partner/kids to drive, and the same would be prudent in the flying sphere. My late first wife gained a Restricted PPL three years after we were married, and following a return crossing of the Nullarbor. Our cockpit relationship was not always as harmonious as away from an aircraft. Best resolved by; she flew, I navigated. Probably one of the few times I could tell her where to go!! Medical incapacity does not seem to feature all that prominently in aircraft incidents/accidents. Though being the one in a 1 in a 1,000,000 occurrence is little comfort. I one incident that I am aware of happened to some flying friends about thirty years ago. The husband had purchased the aircraft, and the wife initially was a very reluctant flyer. She indicated that if she was to fly more frequently she wanted to be more familiar, and even capable of controlling the aircraft. She was also hoping that a bit of flying time would make her more comfortable as a passenger. I forget how many hours were flown, but it was done through an aero club with an instructor. She was able to fly reasonably well, and to configure the aircraft for approach, get it close to the runway and close the throttle. The aim was to get the aircraft to position where it was likely to be survivable, but accepting that the aircraft was probably going to get bent. In an Airtourer this put the odds at not a bad price. As fate would have it, not long after this learning experience the couple were flying over Katoomba, when the husband had a few coronary arteries function not as effectively as they should. Luckily the wife, an experienced nurse, was able to understand the medical implications, and was able to put her recent training to good effect. The husband recovered sufficiently to complete the landing safely. One book I enjoyed reading in this field was by the renown English author Brian Lecomber called "Talk Down". In the ambulance field it is acknowledged that a small, yet appropriate action by a First responder early on is quite often more effective that waiting a good while for the whole cavalry to turn up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ok motzart,Lets work out the lesser of two evils. Evil no.1 is you collapse at the controls and your wife cannot fly and so you have two fatalities. Evil no. 2 is you illegally teach your wife a bit of flying. Again you collapse at the controls but your wife is able to bounce the a/c into a field. Your chance's of survival have dramatically improved. A commercial examiner I had told me at times in your flying you will have to break the rules. It's up to you to decide if you are still safe enough. This is an example of having an experienced capable pilot break the rules to improve safety. You have to honestly appraise yourself-having lots of hours only doesn't make you a good pilot. Also, another point to make is if you make it cheap enough more wives will be taught and have ongoing instruction to remain current. The rules have been around a long time, Saph. They are the accumulation of the wisdom of far wiser men and women than you or me. They watched and learned from the mistakes of others and survived because they didn't then make the same mistakes all over. Those wise people seem to have decided that the chance of you and your wife dying because you collapse at the controls is a dashed sight less than that of a major catastrophe occurring while you give her some instruction. But, irrespective of the pros and cons of your proposition, it is contrary to law and promoting it on this list undoubtedly diminishes all of us here in the eyes of a pretty critical flying community many of whom follow this list without ever joining it. Please desist. Kaz 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Compulsion , Like many pilots who fly with their spouses I know where you're coming from . My wife and I cover a fair bit of ground during the year, and I also considered her having some lessons , "just in case " , but she indicated that she was happy just to be a passenger. I later thought , even if she did learn the "basics" , would she be able to recall those basics , especially with me slumped over the controls , even if she had had a lesson the day before . As we all know ,its very different learning with an instructor guiding you through the process , compared to being alone in the stressful situation described . Long ago I decided that the best strategy for me was to ensure my fitness to fly (IMSAFE) , minimising the likelihood of that situation arising . We all know that the only requirement for a Pilot Certificate is the ability to drive a motor vehicle , however this doesn't prevent people with many other risk factors from flying . As pilots we have a duty of care to our passenger ,whoever that might be ,and the best insurance against that situation arising is to maintain a healthy lifestyle with plenty of exercise, control our weight within the recommended range , a good diet and moderate alcohol consumption when flying .It is also wise to have regular tests including blood analysis , particularly as we get older . Many of us take passengers on "joy flights" , do we ever consider that they should be able to land in an emergency ? Of course not. If you happen to feel unwell during the flight the best strategy is to get down as soon as possible ,don't ignore the warning signs and press on ,even if that strip below you is in the middle of nowhere . I also consider it important for your spouse to be able to use the radio in an emergency . Bob 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Oviously my post won't get riddled with people hitting the like button. [mostly the sex oriented posts get that] Lets look at the standard and amount of training required for a wife to get a plane on the ground and survive. I think in a couple hours of flying [two or three flights] could teach a wife to control yaw, pitch and roll sufficiently to do a survivable landing a lot of the time. If you are prone to flying over tiger coutry it may not make much difference if you have a back up pilot. So, the cost to put your wife and instructor together into your plane for two hours alone [know your instructor:naughty:] would be less than $200. That would be cheap enough to encourage use of the idea. Keeping her current could be helped just with verbal instructions as you are flying making sure of course none of her pinkies ever touch the controls. [of the plane] Motz said:You forgot about the 3rd evil. Your wife stuffs up the flare, you arent trained, experienced or competent in catching it, and you smash and SHE gets killed but you dont.. Good luck sleeping for the rest of your life. All to save a few bucks. Or you could stick to the rules and get an instructor to teach her.. I was promoting the idea of doing the training only around 4000ft. Of coure doing actual landing on hard ground would be too risky. But the rules are the rules and only trainung with an instructor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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