Ignition Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Something to think about - by Paul Bertorelli: http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/AVwebInsider_AccidentDoBetter_207944-1.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Interesting read, the mindset of a lot of the replies is a bit concerning. Particularly the one who said something along the lines of "at some stage you have realise you are just a passenger". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Pilots usually don't want to spoil their fun by thinking of potential accidents all the time. A famous aircraft designer had a news letter for many years. Each issue started off with accidents that occured with his a/c design and what modifications and flying techniques needed to be changed. Readers complained they did not want to read so much of that. So the newsletters started off with some story about dad taking mom and the kids to see grandma and grandpa and eating some possum pie. Then visiting uncle Bob on his farm................................. and flying back, for "great day" So, anything worthwhile reading had to be found more than half way down, to be rated as uncomfortable reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boingk Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Flying is flying. You fly within a few limits - rules of the air, limits of the plane, your own limits as a pilot and lastly the limits of comfort and expectation. Fly your plane, always be in command of it. If you are always in the mindset of control then you should be alright - you are making the craft behave as you wish. If it doesn't for some reason, then you must adjust your flight to work within those limits - a forced landing for example. One thing that irritates me is people thinking a forced landing is the end of the world... its just another landing. Make it a good one and look beforehand for the best spot, you shouldn't have a problem. Cheers - boingk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Decide what you want to gamble your life on. Fly over tiger country in a fast plane and you will gamble your life that your single engine will keep running. Not maintain your fuel system and gamble you won't be creamated next to it. Of course a lot of pilots find that thinking distasteful and so go flying without thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nunans Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 yeah after a number of hours in an aircraft (different number for everyone) i guess pilots begin to think that the engine won't fail and the controls won't break. you know, "well it hasn't missed a beat for the last ___ hours so i can't see why it would stop now". Ga pilots (especially commercial or big hour private pilots) seem to not even consider the terrain below them and just fly direct from where they are to where they want to be just as if the motor is incapable of stopping or the odds are so slim they are happy to risk it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boingk Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Decide what you want to gamble your life on. I see yo 10... and I raise ya 20... - boingk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Commercial pilots have no choice but to go. When I flew commercially I wasn't a pilot, I was a stuntman on low wages. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyo68 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I have to agree with Sapphire to an extent. You do have a choice though, as PIC, if anything bad happens, you as PIC are ultimately responsible. Unfortunately flying commercially in GA, the pressure put on young pilots to fly in poor/potentially unsafe conditions is high if they want to keep their flying job. As a low experience, young pilot, you do not want to get a reputation for refusing to fly. Although Aus is a big country, Aviation is a small industry, and pilots are connected accross the country. Refusing to fly, and leaving a job, you just might find that your reputation precedes you when applying for another job. Flipping burgers is much safer, and no irate passengers/cheif pilots to deal with, and pays about the same. Joe 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boingk Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Well said Sapphire and Joey - I'm currently a bar manager and earning better wages then the flyboys out at the aerodrome. I'd wager the barstaff are as well, seeing as I'm on the same wage! Anywho, this whole debacle is pretty much why I didn't get into the game commercially. Why would you if you need to spend tens of thousands of dollars just to make it happen, while kissing ass all the way to the top? I'll take my private, meticulously maintained craft and a sunny weekday morning, thankyou very much. - boingk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I was told on several occasions to do illegal and unsafe things and got reported when I didn't. Even flying privately got pushed around at a fly-in with minor damage to my a/c. If I never find my next a/c I am quite happy to just go sailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68volksy Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Well said Sapphire and Joey - I'm currently a bar manager and earning better wages then the flyboys out at the aerodrome. I'd wager the barstaff are as well, seeing as I'm on the same wage!Anywho, this whole debacle is pretty much why I didn't get into the game commercially. Why would you if you need to spend tens of thousands of dollars just to make it happen, while kissing ass all the way to the top? I'll take my private, meticulously maintained craft and a sunny weekday morning, thankyou very much. - boingk I think the instructors you're talking about at the airport are working for the wrong crowd! The going rate for Grade 3 instructors is about $50 per flying hour. Grade 2 and Grade 1 get significantly more. It's largely dependent on the weather but you should easily be able to average 20 flying hours per week over a 12 month period if you're happy working when the weather is good and having time off when it's bad. That's $50-60k per year working in one of the most rewarding careers around - wouldn't consider it that bad. Can't say what you're getting as a bar manager so I suppose i can't really compare but when I was working bars it was quite a bit less than that $50k... The kissing ass bit is entirely unnecessary if you've got an instructors rating from a reputable school and a good career history. It always amazes me just how small the world of aviation is... RA-Aus instructors are paid a little less but should expect around $40 per flying hour if they've got some decent experience or a good history with their boss/future boss. As for flying in unsafe conditions if you're an experienced pilot and anyone ever tells you "she'll be right" or "fly or leave - up to you" then you're just a damn fool if you strap yourself into the aircraft. There are so many aviation businesses around that bust their gut doing the right thing, maintaining things properly and looking after their people. Any business that does otherwise should be left to rot. It's that simple in my view. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 The social or recreational pilot has the ability to decide whether he/she wants to fly that day. If you are working for a living you fly at all hours of the day on short notice call out and through all kinds of weather. You have the ultimate choice to do the trip but if you have the Licence the limiting hours and weather is what you run up to. Whether you feel like it is irrelevant and you have to carry some "permitted unserviceabilities". Sometimes you have to be a qualified lawyer to work these out. If you load more fuel than you legally need you have to justify it. I make no complaint about this. It can't be any other way and you should go in with your eyes wide open. Unscrupulous operators will want you to "bend" the rules. It happens don't pretend it doesn't and don't simply say the law protects, you because you won't get a job in the industry again. The same thing happens with ships Captains internationally. I had a friend who was asked to take an oil tanker to sea with no emergency electrical power. He refused was sacked and only ever worked around Indonesia after that where he said "they spill more oil than we use. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I'm putting together a short course for qualified pilots to focus on emergency procedures, rather than wallow in the gloom and uncertainty I firmly believe we should all sharpen the saw and do some serious practice, empowerment through currency and learning. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth lacey Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 count me in on that cheers gareth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 There's some really good stuff in that article link by PB. A couple of things I would like us to consider as MUST do's ..(IMHO), or a variation of the same The FINAL four: FUEL!- On FIRE!- Ignitions ON HATCHES!-secure HARNESS - secure before every line up, read thirty years of accidents and see how many of these pop up- LOTS QUESTION ? if it fails on THIS take off, based on these conditions and surroundings WHERE WILL I GO? AND ALWAYS LOWER THE NOSE IMMEDIATELY AIRSPEED IS CONTROL!!!! Last thing verbalised first thing in recent memory. ROLLING- full Pwr & Airspeed alive- is it working in my favour before I get airborne. Where's my reject point? CLIMB OUT - AAOOK Are we? (climbing),Airspeed,Options,Outside(lookout)Keep climbing, repeat, repeat..... Now all of this is just to help stimulate discussion, see you own instructor/ school and make sure you have a plan with priorities, how you do it, why it matters etc, and make it an unbreakable habit. lets see what discussion this can generate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willborne Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I'm putting together a short course for qualified pilots to focus on emergency procedures, rather than wallow in the gloom and uncertainty I firmly believe we should all sharpen the saw and do some serious practice, empowerment through currency and learning. Let me know when you have finalised course BP I would like to be put through the ringer (so to speak). Willborne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdarby Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm up for that course too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Thanks All should be ready in 1-2 weeks, ill let everyone interested know by PM, pretty pertinent ironically in light of the tragic week we've had. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 sign me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aussieragntube Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Something to think about - by Paul Bertorelli: http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/AVwebInsider_AccidentDoBetter_207944-1.html I've had a couple of crashes and several engine failures and a jammed tail wheel in a tail dragger- also stopped a crash when the PIC left the fuel off just before rolling. Two things apply: (1) have a plan and bring it to mind. That's fine for TO and landing but for 2 strokes still means constantly following roads and avoiding tiger country. The plan changes for different locations and situations (2) As the yanks say, fly the plane but more importantly never give up. Emergency procedures are part of that but so is just making decisions. Generally a non-optimum decision is better than none at all or a late one. Some decisions should be automatic such as nose down on EF. "Calibrating" the altitude needed for a turn back by testing at altitude is very sensible. If u always expect the worst then it won't surprise you when it happens. Nevertheless some people freeze anyway. You don't know how you'll go until it happens to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodo Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I'm putting together a short course for qualified pilots to focus on emergency procedures, rather than wallow in the gloom and uncertainty I firmly believe we should all sharpen the saw and do some serious practice, empowerment through currency and learning. I am interested dodo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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