Garry Morgan Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I was reading the opps manual and noticed we now need to sign out your aircraft DI in the log book each day you fly. I was not aware of this and rang Jill at RAA and confirmed it . So I expect many of you also will not be aware of it . This will bring it in line with others , we only need to sign it at this stage , GFA we need to print and sign, date ,time ,and membership no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 What section of the ops manual are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I can feel a "safer" experience coming on. Just like GA. It must be good. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I am surprised no one is doing this as a matter of course. We have been doing this in GA since time infinitum. Surely we daily inspect the aircraft before flight, all you have to do is sign the aircraft log or maintenance release in the case of GA if the aircraft passes the inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I am surprised no one is doing this as a matter of course. We have been doing this in GA since time infinitum. Surely we daily inspect the aircraft before flight, all you have to do is sign the aircraft log or maintenance release in the case of GA if the aircraft passes the inspection. ...then you put the log in the aircraft and take off? Surely all maintenance records should be kept separate from the aircraft in case of accident? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 MR not required for RAA hence my question re what section of the ops manual is being referred to? I can see a valid reason for Xhire aircraft but owner operator is a waste of time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Lyell, your point is valid. At least in GA the aircraft log is separate to the MR. I suspect we may end up with MR in RAAus at some stage. In GA the MR is signed each day of use following a normal preflight inspection by the PIC. MRs apply in GA whether the use is private or other. To Franks point I am not aware the Ops manual had changed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 A certified aircraft requires an entry by someone, which can be the pilot for some purposes at the beginning of a day you conduct a flight. RAAus planes are not certified. Nor is the pilot a licence holder. The issue is not whether you do an inspection, and one would think the fact you chose to fly it, meant it HAS passed the preflight. Pilots do a walk around prior to each sector with RPT (and most pilot's do it anyway) and no book entry is made..Not saying this is EQUAL to a full preflight, but it's certainly essential to ensure all equipment is removed from the area around the aircraft, and caps/hatches closed and the plane hasn't been damaged by fuelling/ loading operations etc The plane doesn't fly till the paperwork equals it's AUW. Commonsense needed. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherk Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 mr is written on wax paper so that it has less chance of burning !!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 so I did not need mr to fly my air craft I was forced to sign ml before repairer would give me mr I must be ahead off time as I have always carried mr copied from raaus web site neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Im pretty sure with the need to produce a written something about a DI that will occur separately and prior to the usual preflight that RAAus fatalities will at least halve. All those accidents that have been occurring and which were clearly the result of a lack of DI.....you know...those ones......over there.....somewhere.... <sigh!> Its the domain of fools who think we can produce legislation to outlaw foolishness.......produces spiral manoeuvres that ultimately force you to disappear up your own fundament! I think it would be more useful to have a rule in the manuals that says uncontrolled flight into terrain shall be grounds for immediate excommunication from the RAAus membership. Such excommunication of membership and aircraft registration shall be deemed to occur the very microsecond the aircraft touches earth...in which case the subsequent destruction of aircraft and pilot will obviously be of a non RAAus member and a non RAAus aircraft...that should see our problem of high fatality figures immediately solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 IF you have no idea what to do, increase the paperwork and it will at least look as if you are doing something. It will improve aviation safety as there will be less people bothered to commit aviation. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 A daily inspection is needed. Entering a daily inspection on paper means nothing. A paper entry only proved the ENTRY is done, not the inspection. A daily inspection signed off is handy for multiple pilots, BUT a preflight is still necessary. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 So, I lost track of the thread whilst wondering what MR and DI were. I need to ask ..... Do I need to sign a Maintenance Release or Daily Inspection? or what ? I cannot imagine for a moment why, If you are flying your own aircraft and you don't inspect it, who's neck is on the line? I can imagine if someone else is flying it ?.... but then again who's going to carry the can the for not inspecting it ? You"ll not take the trouble to inspect your aircraft but WILL take the trouble to take out a piece of wax paper and sign it? Ha Ha , Not ....A pre-flight is the same as a D.I? or isn't it? , how can you have a pre-flight that is not a daily inspection? Or a daily inspection that is not a pre-flight.....I've got a headache now. thanks....... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 I can recall at a non-servicing base writing " Daily RADIO inspection carried out as per (Something or other) on the maintenance release. I don't think MR's are used in RAAus. They are only signed off by qualified persons. The certificate of Airworthiness is void if not signed when specified. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 The tech manual as it is today is available on the RAAus website, here https://www.raa.asn.au/safety/technical-manual/ Section 4.2 deals with inspections and 4.2.1 deals with Daily inspections. here http://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Section-4.2.1-Daily-and-pre-flight-inspections.pdf Nowhere in this section is there a requirement to document anything However in the maintenance section which precedes that section in 4.0 the policy Annex clearly identifies that a daily inspection is a maintenance activity and in the main body of 4.0 the requirement for all maintenance performed to be documented in the aircraft logbook, here http://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Section-4.0-Policy.pdf So to be IAW the manual it would seem that a DI is a maintenance activity and is therefore to be documented, for all the benefits to humanity that such a record will no doubt bring. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Maintenance performed is detailed work or inspection requiring some disassembly and assembly, in my view. Your engine , prop and airframe log book should enable anyone reviewing it to ascertain what has been done to each of the items, as it is meant to be a record of all that. I guess it's a fine line. Looking and finding an oil leak won't fix it. Same as the graphite spanner."tested and unable to find fault on ground" hasn't fixed it but it is still cleared for flight. ( if you want to accept it. it's the pilot's final say). Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 If this RAAus Form http://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Maintenance-Form.pdf is used in the aircraft it will serve as a record of all flights. The form can be signed on the first flight of the day by the PIC. This form is similar to the MR used in ALL VH Registered GA aircraft. The completed form/s are placed in the aircraft log book after each annual inspection / 100 hourly when a new MR is issued. Minor maintenance issues can be recorded here and also recorded when the rectification has been completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 IF you have no idea what to do, increase the paperwork and it will at least look as if you are doing something. It will improve aviation safety as there will be less people bothered to commit aviation. Nev I refer your blokes and blokettes to para 6 of post # 32 in the thread titled Natfly 14. It was evident from one of the presentations at Natfly that some in RAA Admin will proudly drive RAA to a position of world leadership in Recreational Administration. Sounds great, eh, and CASA will be so pleased. But this is actually code for a creeping, slimy, rotting cancer towards GA thinking, more paperwork and more losses of what Recreational Aviation was and is actually all about .................. and RAA needs to be very careful of the knock-on effects. But we'll be a world leader .............. so HURRAH. However, as I have said before, perhaps keep an eye on the size of the member's market as a direct measure of how much the membership endorses this. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 The tech manual as it is today is available on the RAAus website, here https://www.raa.asn.au/safety/technical-manual/Section 4.2 deals with inspections and 4.2.1 deals with Daily inspections. here http://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Section-4.2.1-Daily-and-pre-flight-inspections.pdf Nowhere in this section is there a requirement to document anything Considering that this document starts with: The pilot-in-command must ensure that the ultralight being operated is currently registered with the AUF and is airworthy. I guess we shouldn't be flying at all:oops: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 You are required to also keep a record of fuel on/offloads so you have a running reference to fuel consumption rates. You may use actual rates inservice if documented and must use the higher rate of the book figure or ACTUAL for flight planning purposes. ALL this paperwork. When was that MR concept introduced? Seems more complex than anything I had in GA. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 of course if we do this for our simple aircraft then it would be logically sensible that we should also do the same for our auto's. I'm sure, that such a regime would be instrumental in creating an entire upswing in our employment numbers and our taxation needs......I mean what's not to like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Per the regulations, a DI is part of CASA's maintenance schedule and the scope of the DI is specified in detail in the regs. Somewhere in the regs it will state that some-one must certify that the maintenance (ie the DI) was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 lock at maintenance form on raa site neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 That's the one I fill in AFTER I've flown the aeroplane.........It's all a bit OTT for me................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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