fly_tornado Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Matthew/Derek you are dreaming, the numbers for Wellcamp just don't add up, look at how many billions of people Qantas flies over in SE Asia, the Darling Downs is a non-event when it comes to passenger numbers. This is your basic problem with Wellcamp, Jetstar won't touch it after get stuck at Avalon. My 2016 prediction is that Air North will pull out of Wellcamp if they don't get a code share with Qantas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewbery Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I have no problem with Wellcamp. I am not the poster who is making predictions about the future performance of the asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 You and Derek are happy to pay $66 to land at Wellcamp for a nice coffee, after all its a business right and if you don't support it, it will close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewbery Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 https://bitre.gov.au/statistics/aviation/international.aspx Total seats made available on international scheduled operations to/from Australia during September 2015 were 3.643 million – an increase of 1.1 per cent compared to September 2014. The overall seat utilisation percentage (including China Airlines, Emirates and Qantas passengers travelling through Australian ports) increased from 79.0 per cent in September 2014 to 82.6 per cent in September 2015. Emirates and QANTAS international seat availability accounted for 14% EACH of the total in Australia through Brisbane specifically. That is to say, each airline moved a shade under 1M international pax through Brisbane over the same FY 2014-2015, according to the BITRE. The answer for QANTAS international (how many billions) is ~1M pax for Brisbane and about 1.6M for Melbourne and a whopping 4.34M pax. There are other airports like Perth and Cairns but these are the big ones. Total for QANTAS international overall is therefore is 0.007 BILLION available seats within a small error. In the total of South East Asia, BITRE noted there were 8.638M seats available for the year and all airlines. SE. Asia is by far the most popular international trip for people's going to and From Australia. So without need of a really accurate estimate, 0.001-ish billion people are carried internationally by QANTAS through Brisbane which is almost irrelevant in comparison to the traffic through Sydney. The most important city pair for QANTAS is Auckland Sydney then Sydney Singapore closely followed by Singapore Melbourne, Singapore Perth then Auckland Melbourne. Brisbane Auckland is eight on the list. Top city pair all airlines for freight is Singapore Melbourne with Brisbane 6th on the list. Total airfreight for Australia for one year is around 1M tonnes Conclusions: QANTAS use big planes in slot constrained airports to move millions of people and thousands of tonnes of cargo between population centres annually. This requires dedicated infastructure and long term contracts with a number partners (ground handling, fuel, road transport, hotels, training, maintenance finance etc), implying a large sunk cost and high capital demand (actual real multiples of billions). Due to the size of these operations QANTAS and other airlines using the same infrastructure are neither agile nor protected from large unexpected changes in demand (SARS, 9/11 style terror fears, trade embargoes etc). However, the trend for freight and passenger movements internationally is generally up and is expected to be until another bombing/epidemic/volcanic eruption. Wellcamp does not operate in the same space as Brisbane and does not compete with slot constrained airports for custom, international or otherwise. Any organisation such as an airline that is itself agile and not in need of specialist infrastructure, for example their own check in desk or containerised freight handling would have already run their ruler over Wellcamp to determine the relative merits of similar facilities especially if their typical trip origin is west of the great dividing range. Brisbane does not have capacity to absorb a new airline for freight or passengers. Neither does Sydney. Freight and passenger numbers for all of Australia are huge. Wellcamp compares to Brisbane in the range of 1:1000 for passengers so the effect on Brisbane of doubling the number of passengers or freight through Wellcamp almost isn't measurable. Brisbane isn't Wellcamp. Wellcamp is irrelevant to Brisbane. Brisbane and Wellcamp are almost irrelevant to the total of international travel from Australia. Why do I need to count in Billions? Why fly to Wellcamp for a coffee when I can drive there? How many extra nurses will the $15M tax offset Wagners isn't paying actually pay for? Please provide references for each answer but do please answer, lest the audience be left to assume the poster is a fool by their stern silence by way of a reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewbery Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Edit in post #631 QANTAS recorded 4.34M available seats for international travel through Sydney. For the record I have flown into Wellcamp and had a coffee after landing. It did not cost me $66. Members of DDSAA and DDAC have landed at Wellcamp in light aircraft. It did not cost them anything like the number quoted in Post #630. As far as I can see, nobody has done this in order to support or express support for Wellcamp. Their support was demonstrated in other ways. Like saying "please" and "thank you" to Sara Hales for instance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekliston Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Only going by the rumoured landing fee for light aircraft. Haven't seen it officially yet so if it is less then that is great. Who is Sara Hales? I am not going to quote figures which I in any case don't have but I prefer to be optimistic and believe that it will succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneL Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Wellcamp charges available on this oage link. http://www.wellcamp.com.au/airlines-industry/aircraft-operators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekliston Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Thanks for that link. By my reckoning it confirms what I was told. $7/tonne with a minimum charge of $60+GST. $66 to land my CH701 there plus parking charge plus the cost of a couple of coffees and cakes makes for a VERY expensive morning tea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi303 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 That may be a commercial only minimum charge, given others have landed recreational there and say they didn't pay that. Can those that have flown in and not paid $66 please actually say how much is DID cost you? It won't affect me over here across the ditch, but I do hate ambiguity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneL Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 We didn't pay because they were special invites like club flyin and open day etc. Sara Hales is the airport public relations officer who did good work in organizing these visits. Wayne 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Derek, in principle support of Wellcamp is different to spending your money there. This is the core problem for Wellcamp, the demographics for the darling downs area don't favour a lot of flights, any growth in flights in QLD will be via BNE and the coastal airports. I know you guys think that in 20 years the airport will be viable, but Boeing can't sell 747-8Fs, which will mean airfreight will end up on the back of RTP aircraft as more of the older 747s are retired. Good to see a local pilot taking advantage of Wellcamp on a foggy day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Wellcamp has had a good year they have grown the catchment area from 344,000 to 400,000 http://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/wellcamp-airport-melbourne-cairns-tickets-sale/2891047/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Fed gov dropping $50M in Townsville http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/townsville/townsville-airport-is-set-to-undergo-a-50-million-expansion-following-government-approval/story-fnjfzsax-1227704071462 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Wagners suing the farmers next door to the airport, the Pascoe's claims where [a bit] ridiculous but this could bankrupt them, $800K + expenses, and put their farm on the market. No doubt, the Berghoffer family will snap it up to build another high density housing estate. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/crime-and-justice/wagners-sue-airport-opponent-for-defamation/news-story/66e227c8b81bddc941ee449587188ad0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewbery Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 No comment on the chartered plane load of scouts that left Wellcamp for the Sydney Jamboree last week then. http://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/southern-downs-scouts-fly-jamboree/2891801/ Glad some of us aren't umpires... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 That the claims made were a "bit" ridiculous would be serious understatement. Read about it in the paper at work (wouldn't pay good money for the Courier Mail), the woman needs a tinfoil hat and a psych assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav 4352 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 No comment on the RAAF Jet that was there on Sunday either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Wagners suing the farmers next door to the airport, the Pascoe's claims where [a bit] ridiculous but this could bankrupt them, $800K + expenses, and put their farm on the market. No doubt, the Berghoffer family will snap it up to build another high density housing estate.http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/crime-and-justice/wagners-sue-airport-opponent-for-defamation/news-story/66e227c8b81bddc941ee449587188ad0 A good example of why you should always stick to Planning facts in any public debate about a controversial planning issue, and stay away of accusing someone of being a crook, bastard or any other inflammatory language. For all you journalist bashers, in the big news channels and newspapers mostly the stories go through their legal departments before publication, but this doesn't always happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter008 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 That the claims made were a "bit" ridiculous would be serious understatement.Read about it in the paper at work (wouldn't pay good money for the Courier Mail), the woman needs a tinfoil hat and a psych assessment. I never bother to read anything from this paper either. It seems to be often dramatised and often factually incorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Fair go Turbo...hardly appropriate to refer o the Courier Mail as "journalism" 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I get it, they just go to Uni for the coffee and chats and lying around on the lawns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav 4352 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I never bother to read anything from this paper either. It seems to be often dramatised and often factually incorrect Shit Peter that sounds a bit like this forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Have a read of the Courier Mail sometime, don't bother buying it though, you'll be annoyed that you actually paid for it. You might then get what I mean about the standard of journalism, or more realistically, what they pass off as journalism. What they publish may be legal, but it's utter trash. If I wanted to read about affairs and what people are wearing, I'd buy a woman's day or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 @M61A1 Any truth to the rumour that Oakey and Cabarlah are getting cut in the next budget? No comment on the RAAF Jet that was there on Sunday either. One that could have flown out of Amberly? :freaked: You need a lot of planes to make an airport viable these days, your armchair critics still haven't got it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewbery Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Post #610 is brought to the previous poster's attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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