Guest Maj Millard Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 My response to Mr Stiff's indignation is: "Rod, you are going to bankrupt your company. You were in trouble before CASA stepped on your toes. You can jump up and down as much as you like but you aren't going to get your own way this time. Everything comes to an end and your number's up. Talking about numbers, ring Ian Bent - and be nice to him." Hallelujah ......finally someone who can see the Forrest for the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Id have thought if Jabiru go its going to be near impossible for CAE. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Our Cuz ‘cross the Tasman called Ornis, had troubles with Jab that had torn us He’s at last seen the light, gone with CAMit, that’s right! he’s gunna be pressed now to scorn us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Trying to get Rod to see anybody else's POV is like trying to get a fish to ride a bicycle... but that doesn't excuse CASA for playing a dirty game. Part of this saga has to do with internal CASA politics and to use Jab. owners and operators as cannon-fodder is an inexcusable abuse of power. The extension of the limitation to experimental aircraft is a clear contravention of CASA's own regulations; neither side is going to come out oif this looking at all good, and in the meantime, the collateral damage is already bad and could get far worse. Why do you say that CASA is playing dirty games ? I would have thought that you guys would have been very appreciated that CASA turned a blind eye to the Jabiru engine failures that have happened in the last 18 years or so. The old excuse of maintenance surely couldn't last for ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Our Cuz ‘cross the Tasman called Ornis,had troubles with Jab that had torn us He’s at last seen the light, gone with CAMit, that’s right! he’s gunna be pressed now to scorn us The shining bright light of 30 engines no less!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Trying to get Rod to see anybody else's POV is like trying to get a fish to ride a bicycle... but that doesn't excuse CASA for playing a dirty game. Part of this saga has to do with internal CASA politics and to use Jab. owners and operators as cannon-fodder is an inexcusable abuse of power. The extension of the limitation to experimental aircraft is a clear contravention of CASA's own regulations; neither side is going to come out oif this looking at all good, and in the meantime, the collateral damage is already bad and could get far worse. Nah the reason Rod doesn't see anybody elses POV is purely because he has so much sand stuck in his ears, he cant hear anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 • Fatal accident rate (Jabiru’s score was zero in USA); and I found 2 tornados that had fatals due to engine problems. Typical Jabiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://flightdesign.com/files/Media/The Aviation Consumer - LSA Accidents.pdf This is the article that will cause some headaches for CASA. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 So here's a company (CAMit) that's doing what some say Jabiru hasn't been doing for the last 20 years: that is research and development into design and structural problems. It has produced a range of upgrades that are being tested in service and the data gained is being used to further develop the product. And still people sneer that there's only 30 in service. Sure that's not a large number but at least the Company is doing something worthwhile to assist the industry and we poor mugs who want to fly RA. And it's 30 more than Jab produced. Do you think, just maybe, CAMit deserves a bit better that. They may not have all the answers but at least they re looking and doing something positive. Ian Bent is, in my opinion, about as genuine as you can get and I think he deserves better than posts that dismiss his efforts because there's "only 30". What happened to the Aussie spirit of giving a bloke a fair go? To many words?? 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I found 2 tornados that had fatals due to engine problems. Typical Jabiru Airbus is having a pretty bad run as well. Neither your comment or mine is relevant to this thread. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Gandalph, this is not about CAMit, it's about de-railing the outbreak of any commentary that isn't vituperative towards Jabiru. Get with the programme here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Gandalph, this is not about CAMit, it's about de-railing the outbreak of any commentary that isn't vituperative towards Jabiru. Get with the programme here! He's your brother. Talk to him! Just kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://flightdesign.com/files/Media/The Aviation Consumer - LSA Accidents.pdfThis is the article that will cause some headaches for CASA. DON'T MENTION THE WAR! Especially, don't introduce an article that shows a Rotax-powered aircraft sitting in someone's surburban backyard following an engine failure, FFS!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He's your brother. Talk to him! Um.. we were never that close... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Lol... Wow.. Touchy much boys? 30 awesome engines. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Lol... Wow.. Touchy much boys?30 awesome engines. Got it. Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I found 2 tornados that had fatals due to engine problems. Typical Jabiru FT ...more ULs flying in one state over there than we have here in the whole country !.....lets stick to our country and keep it simple shall we........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Id have thought if Jabiru go its going to be near impossible for CAE. Why is that funny Dazza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://flightdesign.com/files/Media/The Aviation Consumer - LSA Accidents.pdf. Nup, cant be right Just some numbers manipulated by Jabiru to hide the truth!! Casa have ignored it already Maj is correct, this is 1400 aircraft, 96000? Hrs estimated. Over seven years, AND accident by cause. thats more solid numbers than we have here. For the good of all, RAA needs to deepen its database on accidents/incidents, accurate aircraft and engine version status and maintenance history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ornis Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://flightdesign.com/files/Media/The Aviation Consumer - LSA Accidents.pdfThis is the article that will cause some headaches for CASA. Jabiru, Skycatcher, Flight Design and Aeropro all show a zero fatal rate; Jabiru shows an accidents/registration rate 1.9 and Fight Design is 9.7 - five times as many or an increase of 500%. Now 500 is a large number but fortunately what the figures really "prove" is it doesn't matter because an accident won't kill you if you fly either aircraft... Hmmm. Even with good data you can get the wrong answer. The police here have been persecuting drivers caught "speeding". Just 1 kph over the limit (100) and you're zapped, the argument being it's bringing the road toll down. Trouble is, this holiday season it doubled, not including three killed and one seriously injured when an Asian in a Range Rover did a U-turn in front of a logging truck/trailer just hours before the arbitrary start time. Being too slow kills? Well we know that. So no, the article shouldn't cause any headaches for CASA. What will cause headaches for CASA will be one or two people who won't accept there is a problem with Jabiru engines. If there'd been less bluff and bluster perhaps CASA wouldn't have been - shall we say - heavy handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 It is possible to take a problem engine, redesign the basics and produce a successful design. Holden did this when they bought the Buick V 6. The problem with just 30 engines is you need to be dyno testing and running to destruction more than that number to lnow you have a commercial product. This is doubly critical if the original problem is intermittant. Unless this is done you have a consumer issue if you start making reliability claims because you are just guessing. This is not an engine thread, it's about a CASA decision, now in force, which, it seems to me, quite a few people have decided to push on as usual, disregarding the Instrument. The nature of non prescriptive instruments is while nothing happens nothing happens. CASA don't have to come after you. However it's also like musical chairs, when the next Jab goes in, the implications and costs may be huge. I'm surprised this hasn't occured to anyone. For example, do you think your PL insurance company will cover you if you sign off your own children and take them up. Have you even spoken to your Insurance company to advise them of the increased liability to ser what effect this will have on your premium or whether the company will even take the risk? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Nup, cant be rightJust some numbers manipulated by Jabiru to hide the truth!! Casa have ignored it already Maj is correct, this is 1400 aircraft, 96000? Hrs estimated. Over seven years, AND accident by cause. thats more solid numbers than we have here. For the good of all, RAA needs to deepen its database on accidents/incidents, accurate aircraft and engine version status and maintenance history. The RAAus tech and Ops team has been working on improving the data base for some time now. Remember all members have access to the accident and database on the RAA website...this is regularly updated by Ops, Tech and the Safety manager as required. This is a resorce we did not have two years ago, and is the direct result of the likes of myself and others making a constant noise about not having access to accident info for the education of all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 A welcome move. Good work Nev 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The RAAus tech and Ops team has been working on improving the data base for some time now. Remember all members have access to the accident and database on the RAA website...this is regularly updated by Ops, Tech and the Safety manager as required. This is a resorce we did not have two years ago, and is the direct result of the likes of myself and others making a constant noise about not having access to accident info for the education of all But the DataBase should include total elapsed figures so one might ascertain reliability. There is probably no entry for the "Sun Moon Shine" 5 litre engine, either because it doesn't exist, not used in RAA or because there have been no events established. The current DataBase presentation won't tell me anything about the relative reliability of the SMS 5L. There are a range of engines and planes out there where there is no common knowledge of their numbers so that we can establish their reliability other than by, sometime, dubious claims by manufactures, builders or importers or by the shrill claims of various claques Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Well there certainly some dubious claims by manufacturers, but that happens in many spheres of aviation. The task is big but it has to start somewhere and be followed up. We aren't good in that area. Many aren't because it is the hard part and not many gongs get awarded for diligence. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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