gandalph Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Champagne broken out early in Bundy, no doubt! Wonker! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recflyer Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Couldn't give a rats about all the why this, and who that, and what about etc. HE IS ONLY 16 ON ONLY HIS 4th SOLO. He did better than anyone I know at that stage of their flying career and deserves a medal not an inquisition, plus he was flying a great Australian product. Totally agree. Well done to this young man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Sounds like this kid did a great job! What he was doing out there in bad wx on 4th solo is the biggest concern I can see here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diddy Pilot Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Agreed Motzartmerv, also what else has happened if he was meant to be East of the airfield and ended up a long way West after crossing a thumping big lake and our biggest mountain range. Was he lost? Could weather have forced him that far away? has he done something wrong to contribute to this? His actions to put down safely are to be commended, but there are questions still as to why/ how he was in that position to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 It is also possible that the media report is either wrong or missing information that explains the situation. Don't be too quick to jump to conclusions..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying dog Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 It would seem there are people who are very fixed in what the see and hear. I am trying to look at the bigger picture and ask: WHY? and HOW? This happened. And what can be done to improve what is done for future times when things like this happen. Although unique and individual opinions and actions play a part, I am not looking to judge anyone. I am simply asking questions. As it has/is turning into a slanging match, I am now Un - subscribing from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 You can't really speculate on the information provided regarding the flight. from the media Any of us who cross the Great Divide will have some understanding of the conditions one can encounter. I frequently encountered storms and/or low cloud and you do look for a way through often by going right or left of track. On one bad occasion I landed and sat it out for about an hour. At that time I had over 400 hours of experience to draw on and a CPL with Instructor Rating. This young fella did OK. The important thing is stay out of cloud, and don't wait till you are out of fuel before you (must) land, and don't panic. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Pretty simple. Student on a training flight forced down due weather.. I know who I would be wanting words with. Not slanging 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic36 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Depends how far it was to the house.I wonder how far I would elect to walk before I decided that the use of the PLB was warranted? It is a big cost to a lot of people once the button is pushed whereas a walk of a kilometre or so if well and able would save a lot of wasted expense. If it was to take you too long it could also be expensive as the emergency services could be wasting effort in the wrong location. If you are using OzRunways, the recent update now allows tracking, so emergency services can find you easier, also others, such as family or instructors can track you live. A great addition in my book 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 It would seem there are people who are very fixed in what the see and hear.I am trying to look at the bigger picture and ask: WHY? and HOW? This happened. And what can be done to improve what is done for future times when things like this happen. Although unique and individual opinions and actions play a part, I am not looking to judge anyone. I am simply asking questions. As it has/is turning into a slanging match, I am now Un - subscribing from this thread. The questions you ask are reasonable FD, and there's no reason why the RAA couldn't by now have confirmed some of the facts, such as whether the student was on his fourth solo, or fourth solo nav, which makes a world of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 You are only required to do ONE solo Nav if I recall correctly, for RAAus, and I think it's the same for PPL. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 You are only required to do ONE solo Nav if I recall correctly, for RAAus, and I think it's the same for PPL. Nev Either For PPL, I did: Nav1: Dual 2:10 Nav2: Dual 3:20 Land Mangalore Nav3: Dual 3:20 Land Mangalore, Essendon Nav4: Solo 2:15 Nav 5: Dual 3:55 Land Essendon, Shepparton, Lilydale Nav 6: ICUS 3:20 (In Command Under Supervision) Nav 7: Solo 4:35 Land Albury, land Essendon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Interesting how some still jump on the make Jabiru. An out landing like that in that aircraft is very risky with a good chance of ending inverted FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 If you are using OzRunways, the recent update now allows tracking, so emergency services can find you easier, also others, such as family or instructors can track you live.A great addition in my book Yes a real surprise Bill , one wonders where it will end, I guess the downside is spending more time fiddling and not looking outside . You will need a cellular signal though so , if relying on wifi iPad with external GPS and not having it tethered to iPhone , it will not work.... that's my reading of it ! .... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I just noticed a new thread on this ! .... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 An out landing like that in that aircraft is very risky with a good chance of ending inverted FACT. I'm guessing that you accidentally omitted to insert the word "type" between the words "that" and "aircraft" in your post Teckair. I assume you are referring to tricycle gear type aircraft rather than jabiru in particular. I seem to recall a recent incident involving a C150 that did not end as well as this one, also a non Jab tricycle gear aircraft that ended upside down on Broadwater beach Qld on 1 May 2014 and another at Kyneton Jan 17 this year etc. etc. etc.... I can provide the links if you need to verify these FACTS. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Link to a TV report showing damage to the aircraft, and more details. https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/28403993/student-pilot-praised-after-crash-landing/#page1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I'm guessing that you accidentally omitted to insert the word "type" between the words "that" and "aircraft" in your post Teckair. I assume you are referring to tricycle gear type aircraft rather than jabiru in particular. I seem to recall a recent incident involving a C150 that did not end as well as this one, also a non Jab tricycle gear aircraft that ended upside down on Broadwater beach Qld on 1 May 2014 and another at Kyneton Jan 17 this year etc. etc. etc....I can provide the links if you need to verify these FACTS. Yes tricycle types are susceptible to nose wheel failures with forced landings and hopefully you realise a C150 nose wheel is much stronger than the Jabiru. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yes tricycle types are susceptible to nose wheel failures with forced landings and hopefully you realise a C150 nose wheel is much stronger than the Jabiru. Yes. But a C150 is a different class of aircraft. We should compare apples to apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I seem to recall a recent incident involving a C150 that did not end as well as this one, Yes. But a C150 is a different class of aircraft. We should compare apples to apples. Maybe you should stop doing it? I realise Jabiru owners are sensitive to anything vaguely critical about their aircraft and I try to avoid getting involved, what I was trying to say was the young guy did OK not flipping it. Looking at the footage he may have been trying to land on a road but something has gone wrong and he has hit a fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMSA Search Rescue Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Every distress situation is different and without knowing what the pilot was thinking, it is not possible to give a definite answer as to whether an Emergency Locator Transmitter or Personal Locator Beacon should have been activated. In a distress situation, two-way communication is the most effective means of alerting distress. If two-way communications are not available, then a distress beacon should be activated in situations of grave and imminent danger. This equates to when a pilot is facing a life threatening situation. This is a personal decision that is different for everybody. A pilot in an incident like this needs to make these decisions when in the air and after landing. When in the air, a beacon can be activated if the pilot feels he or she is in grave and imminent danger. Facing a forced landing would be a reason to feel in grave and imminent danger. In a forced landing situation, when the pilot is also unsure of their position, lost or has deviated from the planned or notified flight route, this would elevate the level of concern and a decision to activate their ELT or PLB would certainly be wise so that search and rescue response will focus on the correct location. After landing, there are various factors to consider. Was the flight overdue? Would a search and rescue response be underway? What will others be doing as a result of not turning up or not reporting in as expected? Activating a beacon would provide valuable information to search and rescue authorities, especially if the landing site is a distance from the expected final location for the flight. Also, the pilot would need to consider how long it will take to walk to reach a farmhouse to ring authorities. For more information about when and how to use your beacon visit: http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/activation/ AMSA Media 2 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenaviator Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yes tricycle types are susceptible to nose wheel failures with forced landings and hopefully you realise a C150 nose wheel is much stronger than the Jabiru. Plenty of C150 nose wheels have been taken out. Their attachment to the engine mount is pretty sturdy also, transferring loads into the firewall which isn't and tends to buckle with a heavy landing. I think the Jab's nose wheel assembly is designed to depart rather than taking out the fire wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMSA Search Rescue Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 My understanding is that an ELB is only for a life-threatening emergency, if you can walk to a farmhouse and call the authorities, then that is what you should do rather than initiating a costly deployment aircraft and personnel. Every distress situation is different and without knowing what the pilot was thinking, it is not possible to give a definite answer as to whether an Emergency Locator Transmitter or Personal Locator Beacon should have been activated. In a distress situation, two-way communication is the most effective means of alerting distress. If two-way communications are not available, then a distress beacon should be activated in situations of grave and imminent danger. This equates to when a pilot is facing a life threatening situation. This is a personal decision that is different for everybody. A pilot in an incident like this needs to make these decisions when in the air and after landing. When in the air, a beacon can be activated if the pilot feels he or she is in grave and imminent danger. Facing a forced landing would be a reason to feel in grave and imminent danger. In a forced landing situation, when the pilot is also unsure of their position, lost or has deviated from the planned or notified flight route, this would elevate the level of concern and a decision to activate their ELT or PLB would certainly be wise so that search and rescue response will focus on the correct location. After landing, there are various factors to consider. Was the flight overdue? Would a search and rescue response be underway? What will others be doing as a result of not turning up or not reporting in as expected? Activating a beacon would provide valuable information to search and rescue authorities, especially if the landing site is a distance from the expected final location for the flight. Also, the pilot would need to consider how long it will take to walk to reach a farmhouse to ring authorities. For more information about when and how to use your beacon visit: http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/activation/ AMSA Media 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMSA Search Rescue Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Just wondering:Would that landing/situation warranted use of the ELB? Why would he have needed to walk to the house and used a mobile phone? Hey, just asking. Every distress situation is different and without knowing what the pilot was thinking, it is not possible to give a definite answer as to whether an Emergency Locator Transmitter or Personal Locator Beacon should have been activated. In a distress situation, two-way communication is the most effective means of alerting distress. If two-way communications are not available, then a distress beacon should be activated in situations of grave and imminent danger. This equates to when a pilot is facing a life threatening situation. This is a personal decision that is different for everybody. A pilot in an incident like this needs to make these decisions when in the air and after landing. When in the air, a beacon can be activated if the pilot feels he or she is in grave and imminent danger. Facing a forced landing would be a reason to feel in grave and imminent danger. In a forced landing situation, when the pilot is also unsure of their position, lost or has deviated from the planned or notified flight route, this would elevate the level of concern and a decision to activate their ELT or PLB would certainly be wise so that search and rescue response will focus on the correct location. After landing, there are various factors to consider. Was the flight overdue? Would a search and rescue response be underway? What will others be doing as a result of not turning up or not reporting in as expected? Activating a beacon would provide valuable information to search and rescue authorities, especially if the landing site is a distance from the expected final location for the flight. Also, the pilot would need to consider how long it will take to walk to reach a farmhouse to ring authorities. For more information about when and how to use your beacon visit: http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/activation/ AMSA Media 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Agreed Treckey, I don't think I'm a defend Jab at all costs person, and I didn't think you were necessarily attacking jabs in your earlier post . I just wanted to clarify that you were referring to trike gear planes in general. No argument from me about the vulnerability of trike gear landings off the hard. One of my instructors told not to stop flying the aircraft until it was tied down. Good advice no matter what the undercarriage arrangement. Not sure what you want me to stop doing, and I'm almost afraid to ask..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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