PPL Flight Test -- PASSED!!

[aplund]

Well, after a long and arduous process, I did my PPL flight test on Friday, and the end result was a good outcome. Even two days later, I'm not sure it has all exactly sunk in, and I'll try and go through some of my thinking.

 

My trajectory through the system has been a somewhat painful process. Some will probably remember the thread I started about the Royal Queensland Aero Club going bankrupt. I was caught up in this mess, fortunately not in a financial sense, but it definitely hindered my progress.

 

I started training at Archerfield with the RQAC (strictly speaking their training subsidiary, Airline Academy of Australia or AAA) in November 2015. My logbook is packed with entries from the basic handling stages in November and December 2015. I did my first solo during this time.

 

Then things got very busy for AAA as they were taking on lots of VET FEE-HELP students (what eventually sunk them) and they were preparing for an influx of Griffith aviation students. I had started off doing all my flights with one instructor but I quickly found myself flying with different instructors pretty much each flight. This was OK for me, and I met lots of good pilots that way, but I can see how this would be problematic for some people.

 

Now, AAA sold me on the idea from the new Part 61 rules around granting licenses and endorsements on demonstrated competency and that I should try and expedite matters by not sitting an RPL flight test. This was almost certainly a bad idea. Anyway, as planned, in January 2016 I started navigation training.

 

Things slowed down here a little as I had booked a summer holiday many months before and it's a notoriously busy time for conferences in my work (at the university, people schedule workshops and conferences whilst teaching duties are less). So I had to take some time away from flying but I did complete a navigation flight every few of weeks.

 

This was also one of the times where I had a lot of "what the hell am I doing?" moments, al la Mythbusters. I would complete the Nav, which would be roughly a 3 hour flight and they were generally pretty awesome. Then get an invoice for ~$1500 and think: "How on earth does anyone afford to fly?" or more precisely "How the hell am I going to afford to fly?". I had gone into this with a plan for how to manage the costs of flying after getting a licence, but I think I just told myself that my training would soon be over and I just concluded that I would probably be flying a lot less than I expected initially.

 

I was endorsed to do my first solo navigation during March 2016 and I had booked the plane for my flight and shortly afterwards I got the news. The flight school would stop all operations immediately. I really had no idea what to do (and subsequently posted a thread on here). I pretty quickly called a number of places to see what they could offer. I ended up talking with the guys as Southern Skies who I eventually completed my training with. The sticking point was the lack of RPL. They really wanted me to do that, and maybe I should have. But after considering the opinions from here (another thread) and talking with others I tried to push them to stick with the initial plan.

 

We managed to transfer my training records but, understandably, they wanted to see where I was at. So we had a few steps backwards. What made things many times more difficult was that AAA had a way of doing navs which was different to how the guys at Southern Skies operate. Not having seen what they do, it would have seemed to them as if I hadn't actually been trained on how to navigate. Anyway, what transpired was a drastic slowing of progress.

 

But then the my deadline loomed. Due to the way universities are funded, many who work there find themselves on short term employment (even if you have been around for a decade or more). I am no exception. My job was to end in September 2016. As the year went on, I had to dedicate more time to sorting that out. I eventually sorted out another 12 months, but my teaching doubled and I had little time to do the work required for flying.

 

Then the university semester ended in November 2016 and I pushed myself hard to get over the line for PPL even if my calendar would soon be full again. Navigation solo was finally achieved. I was to head to Gympie, then on to Nanango back to Archerfield. It was on the cruise from Gympie to Nanango where I had time to reflect on what I was achieving. There I was, just me and the plane, a view like you'd never believe and a feeling of understanding of what was going on and realising that I _could_ do this!

 

I also had a couple of commitments in December 2016 and January 2017 which, even if I wanted to fly, I couldn't. But I tried to sick with it as best I could. If I couldn't fly, I could read the VFRG, or plan out a "fake" nav of my own doing. End of Jan early Feb I did some more dual flights and given I didn't have an RPL, we did lots of practise of stalls, steep turns, etc.

 

It was Monday last week when doing a "pre-test" nav when I felt like it all came together. Managed controlled airspace with ease. Used the navaids without drama. Diverted from our plan, no problem. Did the IFR component and quickly figured out where we were after being "lost". Did some perfect stall recoveries and beautiful steep turns. We did a forced landing and PSAL and sometime after that my instructor turned to me and said "Oh! Send me home!! We're done!" I think that was the official sign that I was ready for the test.

 

I had it booked for Thursday, but due to some unfortunate circumstances with the testing officer, we had to change who was to do the test and the day. So Friday 8am it was.

 

I did lots of practise going through the Part 61 PPL test checklist so that I covered everything that I thought may be covered. But when I went into the oral component, the questions I got, were not those that I expected. I spent some time thinking about what the right answer was in each case, and I think I'd pretty clearly demonstrated that I had read and understood the VFRG. But the questions were tricky and needed some knowledge of the wording in the CAR or CAO. So I wasn't awfully confident about that, but the thing that kept me going was that I was learning a lot just in this short time and I could converse about the topics from my own knowledge base and understanding. We got to the end and I was told that we should get ready for the flight. So I took this as a good sign that I wasn't going to fail from the oral component.

 

Things went pretty well for departure, I thought. When we got back I was told of a couple of things I could tidy up on. I had also rang the tower the day before and told them that I was going to do my test and in which plane. I also asked them a few questions about some oddities of procedures in Archerfield which I really wanted sorted out. I'm not sure if they knew or not, but things went perfectly on the taxi call and getting ready to depart.

 

We departed the zone and there is lots of opinions out there of leaving the zone at Archerfield and how to stay clear of the CTA above it. I was told when we got back that I should have climbed earlier, but I was so concerned about not busting into the CTA steps I delayed the climb until I was more than doubly sure that I was clear of a step.

 

We headed into Sunshine Coast and I was already a bit flustered from the experience and I needed to confirm a couple of things with the tower. Did they actually clear me for a visual approach? Did they want a left or right circuit for runway 18? Anyway, I have always been told to ask if unsure, and it didn't seem busy there so I don't think I caused any dramas in asking. It wasn't mentioned when we got back, so presumably I did OK.

 

Being a student pilot, crosswinds and gusts on final have always been difficult for me. And we were to land on runway 18 with a easterly wind of about 12 knots. I saw the windsock, knew exactly what I had to do, and after my checks on final I said to myself, "left wing down, right rudder" over and over. On short final I put in the slip, and I amazed myself at just how well it all happened. I felt the left wheel touchdown, a second or two later the right. I thought to myself "that's exactly how it _meant_ to be". And in that moment, I released the crosswind correction. Very little happened, maybe a slight lift up of the left wheel but it was just a little bit. Once the nosewheel was down I realised what I did and put back in the aileron correction. Not to mention this was talked about when we got back.

 

We taxied to the GA apron as required, and I pulled up in the short term parking area. Then one of the most embarrassing times in the test. It was put to me that we have flown here for some friends to catch a flight and I should describe what I'd to do get them to the terminal. So I look over to the terminal building looking for entrances. I say something like, "well, the terminal is that way". The response was a little laugh. I did see the big sign saying "security controlled area". I had never been posed this question before, though I had thought about it. It was put to me that this was "Ground Navigation". I admitted that I had never heard of this before. I said that if I was actually in this situation, I'd call ground and ask for advice. This was an OK answer, but answer that was required was to go to the gate and read the sign. I think this is a really good question, particularly if you have passengers. What do they do? Where do you go? Nobody had explained this to me before.

 

Then we departed, crosswind takeoff which seemed to go well. I was to depart by the VOR but I got so caught up in making my departure report (not required in Archerfield when going into class G) that I took up the track without intercepting my track early enough. I did realise this and deviated to line up the needle and when I did the departure report, we weren't actually tracking the track I reported. So it was all a bit of a mess. Needless to say, this was mentioned when we got back and I got some questions about what the rules are for taking up your outbound track, which I answered. It was one of those "in the moment" brain fades.

 

We departed the zone and I started navigation on my WAC. We went right over Kenilworth, which was where my line was and I marked it down on the WAC. Then the difficult DR navigation began. After Kenilworth, there is really nothing to use to find your location. The terrain is just rolling hills and nothing stands out particularly. There is a road, but good luck finding it. I took my best stab at it and thought we were slightly slow and maybe on track.

 

I was then asked what attitude I was trying to maintain. I said 3000 as we have cloud directly above us. The reply that came from that was "nah, you have another 2000 feet to the cloud." I didn't really believe it, but I climbed and sure enough the clouds were higher than I thought.

 

Then I found we were heading right for a town. I noted the power station and tried to orient things relative to it on the map. We were getting close to the time for an inbound radio call point and I kind of freaked out a bit. Were we at Kingaroy? It didn't make sense we should need more time and the power station was in the wrong location. I saw another town on the map, Nanango. That was my guess and it seemed to work. I declared that we were almost certainly over Nanango and that we will have to make a significant heading deviation to head to Kingaroy. There he said "you bet, but you figured it out."

 

I was then asked to divert to Watts Bridge. Was this the "go home" point? Presumably he would have asked to go direct to Archerfield if I'd failed. I thought it couldn't be so I tried to forget it. It took me a while to do the diversion to Watts Bridge. The conditions were bumpy and the thought of failure was in my mind. We did 4 orbits of Nanango whilst I did the planning for the diversion, almost 10 mins!! But we were on our way to Watts Bridge.

 

There we did some IF which I found OK. We did some unusual attitude recoveries and they were OK too. So we ended the IF and simulated engine failure. I picked an obvious enormous clear paddock which we were almost directly over the top of it and executed my plan. Did the restart checks maybe a little late, but I did get through things. As we were over the top of the paddock I found myself a little high to land in it, so I did a sideslip and we looked like we were going to make it and we did a go-around. When we got back, he told me that we were well in range of Toogoolawah field and that was clearly the best place to go. I just didn't see it.

 

Then we did some low-level navigation to Watts Bridge where I did a PSAL. This went OK but I kind of stuffed up the short field landing. Then he asked me to divert via Amberley restricted airspace back to Archerfield. Well, I knew we didn't have much time. It wasn't too many miles to the boundary of the airspace. I dialled up the NDB and heard they were still active. (Some other bloke should have done this. Every minute or two they were trying to get hold of someone squarking 1200 and not on frequency in the restricted airspace.) I had my plan to go via the Wivenhoe dam wall to Goodna so I called up the clearance delivery and asked to do that. He gave me a squark code and then didn't get back to me! I didn't know what to do so I thought I should orbit. Then it was pointed out that the airspace I was avoiding was above 4500 and we were at 3500, so we progressed forward. And just before the boundary he gave us the instruction to contact approach which I had already in the radio so managed to do that very quickly.

 

Then we were going home! So I asked if it was OK to dial up goodna in the GPS and go direct there using that. Not only was the answer yes, but I got shown the usefulness of OzRunways!

 

It all went pretty well going in, but I just needed to confirm in my head the runway assigned. Sometimes things go into my head and straight out again. I definitely don't remember the words "change of runway" and we were going to be coming from the west so that'd be runway 10R (I remembered the 10 bit). So that's what we went for. Sure enough the clearance for 10R came through.

 

Back on the ground, I parked and shutdown and suddenly felt kind of exhausted. 3.6 hours on the engine. But I did mention SARTIME as soon as I saw my phone. As the plane was to be packed up I said I would do everything and meet him inside. But he wanted to hear me do the SARTIME phone call as he was listed as PIC. Whoops.

 

Anyway, back in the room, we discussed many of the above issues and started filling in the paperwork. I must have had a confused look on my face as at some random point I heard the words "Congratulations" and saw a hand being extended in my direction. That was it? It didn't hit me like I expected it to, it just kind of happened. I had passed the test. My mind was almost exactly like the training flights, thinking about what I could improve and when I should book the next one. It didn't dawn on me in that moment that I didn't need to think about when to book the next nav flight.

 

So here I am, downloading my thoughts into this document. The paperwork needs to go through CASA before it's all official. But I'm trying to get my brain into answering the question of what am I going to do from here. There is time, and I still have other part of my life that need more attenuation than I have been able to give them since perusing this dream. But one thing that does hang over my head is the cost. If I were to fly just the C172 my budget would allow for only about 10-15 hours of flying a year. Is this how much other people fly? I was kind of hoping to get to 300 hours in a reasonable time frame. Now it looks like I won't get there for another 15 years!!

 

Anyway, I have achieved something significant for me. I promised myself when I was about 13 years old that I would one day learn to fly. Pending paperwork, I'm at the stage where it is an official documented fact. That, is really quite extraordinary.

 

 

[tafisama]

conguratulations mate.

[Kununurra]

Aplund,

 

Well done you have achieved your goal Don't give up now keep going you can do it.

 

Why not try for a syndicate in an older aircraft to get some hours up, it may be cheaper than paying for direct flying hours.

 

Cheers

 

 

[aplund]

Aplund,Well done you have achieved your goal Don't give up now keep going you can do it.

Why not try for a syndicate in an older aircraft to get some hours up, it may be cheaper than paying for direct flying hours.

 

Cheers

I'm very.. err.. green on this. I was hoping to find people through the RQAC, but now they look more dead than ever. The last I head was that the offer that was on the table to revive them didn't eventuate.

 

So I'm looking for new avenues. I have places I want to go and things I want to achieve, just the bank will need a recovery period. How much does it cost to get involved in a syndicate? How many are there at Archerfield? How do you find out about them?

 

Though I have achieved this, filling my brain full of facts and rules, there is so much I don't know. Like for example, what's the deal with a PPL and RA-AUS registered aircraft? Can you fly them? The rules would say yes, but my guess is that there are the owners who would say no, probably due to insurance issues.

 

During much of my training, I couldn't help but think about the two seats being dragged along behind. They were only ever occupied by a bag or water bottle. Not that you can easily exceed the MTOW if you put people back there, but still, why did everyone recommend the 172 and not something smaller like a 150/152?

 

 

[aplund]

So I added up the costs of my PPL. It's come to about $33,000. No wonder my bank account is looking rather sad. I have almost 75 hours total experience in my logbook.

 

I was told this would be roughly what the cost would be and only about 10% more than I was told. Given that my whole flow was disrupted by the RQAC bankruptcy, I think that's come out OK.

 

There's many oddities that I've found going back. Some can be reconciled with the RQAC invoicing going crazy just before they went under.

 

The most direct oddity is the landing fees. I was charged pretty much always $33 for landing fees at Archerfield. Now if you look at this document:

 

http://www.archerfieldairport.com.au/Downloads/Schedule%20of%20charges.pdf

 

for a 2300lbs MTOW aircraft the charge should be $14.39. Sure it's only $19 per flight, but where did it actually go? Also, some of the other fields I was charged $15ish but I haven't found out exactly what their landing fee schedules are.

 

I'm still very confused as to how it comes out that private hire (excluding landing fees & taxes) of C172s comes out to be almost $300. Perhaps it's the insurance. But given some guestimates based on google for tiedowns/insurance/oil/fuel and including a fair margin for profit it works out to over $10,000 in other costs on average for each 100 hourly/annual which would be maintenance/parts/rego. Does this sound right?

 

 

[rdarby]

Well done!

 

 

[Guest FlyingPhil]

Aplund, firstly congratulations on achieving your PPL. Unless you are aware of the considerable effort involved (and cost!!) most folk don't understand how justified you are about giving yourself a pat on the back. They say that money is the fifth force of flight and without it your flights are going to be limited to the 10-15 hours rental like you mentioned. But the RA-Aus allows for PPL pilots to convert with a legal minimum hours being 5 last time I checked. This is due to the low inertia of LSA aircraft with low MTOW. Basically, RA-Aus teaches you that you are now not flying a C172 with higher performance. There are plenty of PPL pilots flying RA-Aus for a whole lot less costs. I'm still only a student (on again / off again) but I have found the RA-Aus scene to be a very positive atmosphere to be around. I have looked at schools and fields all over Australia (I travel a fair bit) and I am always welcomed by the pilots and owners there. Come on over to fun side of the island .... 10,000 members cant be all wrong.

 

 

[aplund]

But the RA-Aus allows for PPL pilots to convert with a legal minimum hours being 5 last time I checked. This is due to the low inertia of LSA aircraft with low MTOW. Basically, RA-Aus teaches you that you are now not flying a C172 with higher performance. There are plenty of PPL pilots flying RA-Aus for a whole lot less costs.

I want to look at all options. Is it that you need 5 hours in RA-Aus due to insurance requirements? The privileges of a PPL are that you can fly a plane up to 5700kg MTOW. I cannot find where it states this _has_ to be only VH registered aircraft. What are the PAX privileges for RA-Aus? For the MTOW allowed for 24- and 19- it seems unlikely to take 3 people in a plane. What about navigation and controlled airspace? Surely these questions have been asked before. I cannot seem to locate a central authority which answers these questions.

 

One of my concerns at the moment is currency. If I complete 3 take-off and landing cycles in RA-Aus aircraft, does that satisfy the PPL PAX requirements?

 

 

[djpacro]

Part 61 only applies to VH and thats only what your Part 61 licence entitles you to fly - suggest that you read the rules (but you need to go round in circles to check all the ifs and buts), not sure if the Noddy guides cover this. You may find another rule somewhere else which says you may fly another registered type e.g. from memory the US law entitles you to fly an N registered airplane in this country.

 

Suggest you also read up on CASA's new general competency requirements as it is relevant to your question.

 

 

[flyhi]

So I added up the costs of my PPL. It's come to about $33,000. No wonder my bank account is looking rather sad. I have almost 75 hours total experience in my logbook.I was told this would be roughly what the cost would be and only about 10% more than I was told. Given that my whole flow was disrupted by the RQAC bankruptcy, I think that's come out OK.

 

There's many oddities that I've found going back. Some can be reconciled with the RQAC invoicing going crazy just before they went under.

 

The most direct oddity is the landing fees. I was charged pretty much always $33 for landing fees at Archerfield. Now if you look at this document:

 

http://www.archerfieldairport.com.au/Downloads/Schedule of charges.pdf

 

for a 2300lbs MTOW aircraft the charge should be $14.39. Sure it's only $19 per flight, but where did it actually go? Also, some of the other fields I was charged $15ish but I haven't found out exactly what their landing fee schedules are.

 

I'm still very confused as to how it comes out that private hire (excluding landing fees & taxes) of C172s comes out to be almost $300. Perhaps it's the insurance. But given some guestimates based on google for tiedowns/insurance/oil/fuel and including a fair margin for profit it works out to over $10,000 in other costs on average for each 100 hourly/annual which would be maintenance/parts/rego. Does this sound right?

There is also an Airservices Tower fee of approx $17 as well as the AAC landing charge for each full stop landing at Archerfield. Total charge for C172 approx $34.

 

 

[aplund]

Part 61 only applies to VH and thats only what your Part 61 licence entitles you to fly - suggest that you read the rules (but you need to go round in circles to check all the ifs and buts), not sure if the Noddy guides cover this. You may find another rule somewhere else which says you may fly another registered type e.g. from memory the US law entitles you to fly an N registered airplane in this country.Suggest you also read up on CASA's new general competency requirements as it is relevant to your question.

"Noddy guides"? Is this bush-slang or an actual document? The wording in the VFRG is this:

 

Private pilot licence | Civil Aviation Safety Authority

 

"As the holder of a private licence (aeroplane) you are authorised to fly an aeroplane as pilot in command or co-pilot while the aeroplane is engaged in private operations (see page 1.14) or as pilot in command in flying training operations."

 

The VFRG doesn't seem to say anywhere that this only applies to VH registered aircraft. In-fact, the whole VFRG doesn't mention the distinctions between RA-Aus registration and VH registration anywhere. Given that this seems like a significant limitation you would have thought it would be mentioned.

 

PPL achieved, but it feels like the "real" learning has just begun.

 

 

[aplund]

There is also an Airservices Tower fee of approx $17 as well as the AAC landing charge for each full stop landing at Archerfield. Total charge for C172 approx $34.

Thanks for the pointer. Sorted that out. (AAA _really_ stuffed this up before they went bankrupt). The reference document is here:

 

Services Agreement

 

 

[Pearo]

Well done aplund. It sound like your PPL test was a little more full on than mine! Was your testing officer someone from the school or someone outside? I got myself lost on a diversion as well (was low level due weather, to watts bridge), but thankfully found myself in time!!

 

Re cost of 172s, I think the cheapest around is Darling Downs aeroclub. Redcliffe is also under $300 (maybe 270 odd).

 

Doing 10-15 hours a year is just enough to maintain your skills IMO. I am doing about that at the moment due to work and other commitments. Between RPL and PPL I was doing a lot of local flying and not working, so I was doing around 100hrs a year, it sucks to have dropped that down but I need to fund the habit somehow! Every time I go up now I try to practice a couple of things if I dont have pax, and sometime I will go for a quick buzz to the training area then head back and do half a dozen circuits including shortfields, glides, flapless etc. The one thing I have not done in a while is a decent nav ex. Thinking I might a run out west soon, maybe Longreach or Birdsville just to test myself! Will have GPS and OzRunways but plan to do it using DR. The red country is the ultimate test of DR skills!

 

 

[aplund]

Well done aplund. It sound like your PPL test was a little more full on than mine! Was your testing officer someone from the school or someone outside? I got myself lost on a diversion as well (was low level due weather, to watts bridge), but thankfully found myself in time!!

Someone outside. It's funny how the brain works. During the flight I couldn't help but fixate on what might be an "automatic" fail, but on reflection, the things that I thought went wrong were quite minor and/or dealt with.

 

Re cost of 172s, I think the cheapest around is Darling Downs aeroclub. Redcliffe is also under $300 (maybe 270 odd).

Doing 10-15 hours a year is just enough to maintain your skills IMO. I am doing about that at the moment due to work and other commitments. Between RPL and PPL I was doing a lot of local flying and not working, so I was doing around 100hrs a year, it sucks to have dropped that down but I need to fund the habit somehow! Every time I go up now I try to practice a couple of things if I dont have pax, and sometime I will go for a quick buzz to the training area then head back and do half a dozen circuits including shortfields, glides, flapless etc. The one thing I have not done in a while is a decent nav ex. Thinking I might a run out west soon, maybe Longreach or Birdsville just to test myself! Will have GPS and OzRunways but plan to do it using DR. The red country is the ultimate test of DR skills!

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to do 100hrs/year, I just don't see how it's financially possible. As you say, ~$270/hour for a plane means your up for ~$27,000p.a. in flying costs (+ taxes, landing fees, maps/charts, medicals, etc.) That's somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 of our household income and just not possible.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to do 100hrs/year, I just don't see how it's financially possible. As you say, ~$270/hour for a plane means your up for ~$27,000p.a. in flying costs (+ taxes, landing fees, maps/charts, medicals, etc.) That's somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 of our household income and just not possible.

There may be a solution. Bex.is working on it.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[djpacro]

Flight crew licensing (Part 61) - the basics | Civil Aviation Safety Authority has basic info about Part 61 and it starts by referring you to the rules to get the whole story.

 

Who knows when we'll get real Advisory Circulars.

 

 

[aplund]

Flight crew licensing (Part 61) - the basics | Civil Aviation Safety Authority has basic info about Part 61 and it starts by referring you to the rules to get the whole story.Who knows when we'll get real Advisory Circulars.

What I'm really after is where organizations like raaus are mentioned in the CASR and also which section describes the rules for non vh registered aircraft. I've tried to pin it down by going through it systematically but cannot find it.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

What I'm really after is where organizations like raaus are mentioned in the CASR and also which section describes the rules for non vh registered aircraft. I've tried to pin it down by going through it systematically but cannot find it.

Here's some light reading for you regarding RAAus aircraft from civil aviation orders. Civil Aviation Order 95.55 (Exemption from the provisions of the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 — certain ultralight aeroplanes) Instrument 2015

 

 

[NT5224]

Hi aplund

 

Congratulations on your PPL!

 

I gotta say I really enjoyed reading your account of your progress to PPL and flight test. It made compelling reading.

 

I recall your thread some months ago describing how your flight school went bust, and I remember thinking that you were left in a really difficult situation. Its really inspiring to know you came back from that setback and have completed you PPL. Transitioning between flight schools can be tough.

 

If funds are a constraint then as somebody suggested above, flying with RAA might be a slightly cheaper alternative to continuing along the GA path, particularly if you're interested to actually own an aircraft. But that depends if you can get by with a single passenger and aren't fussed about flying in controlled airspace. Why not go for a trial flight in one?

 

best of luck

 

Alan

 

 

[Pearo]

Someone outside. It's funny how the brain works. During the flight I couldn't help but fixate on what might be an "automatic" fail, but on reflection, the things that I thought went wrong were quite minor and/or dealt with.

Do you mind me asking who you did your test with? I flew with Reg Grundy for my PPL. I actually really enjoyed flying with him, he his reasonably strict, but he lets you find your own way and he offers up some really good advice. In aviation, I never pass up getting some good advice from a competent pilot, and I think he picks up on that.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to do 100hrs/year, I just don't see how it's financially possible. As you say, ~$270/hour for a plane means your up for ~$27,000p.a. in flying costs (+ taxes, landing fees, maps/charts, medicals, etc.) That's somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 of our household income and just not possible.

Hearing you there. Time aside, I am not sure I can do those hours financially at the moment either. I have spent the last year looking at GA v RAA, buying v renting, even considered building. Decided to take the plunge and do my PIFR so booked in the IREX course with bob tait but now questioning if I have the time and money to pursue that too...

 

 

[aplund]

On reflection last night, I think I'm just a bit burnt out from the whole experience. It seems to feel like climbing to what you think is a summit just to find an unexpected 100m cliff-face above you. It'd be awesome just to have some fun with things now and hopefully allow some time for money to come back to me (hopefully).

 

Is anyone going to the Straddie fly-in this month with a spare seat or two?

 

 

[aplund]

Oh and just to add to the fun of all this, CASA sent through a letter claiming my application is incomplete. In the application process had included a copy of my ASIC and had the copy JPed and their response was:

 

The person certifying your photo does not appear to be qualified to certify a photo.

Please have a suitably qualified person certify the photo and resubmit.

If CASA won't allow a JP to certify photos, then who the hell is meant to?

 

I'm getting assistance from the flight school on this. But I think the best reaction to this is "WTF"? (And when they say I need to send through the "entire application", I hope that's not some CASA code for me to pay the application fee a second time).

 

 

[Mewp]

Congratulations - regarding flying VH and LSA. I owned a C172 for 15 years and operational costs over that time steadly increased finally making private ownership questionable with a fuel burn of 34l/h @ $2:50 / l, 100hrly / annuals around $5000 / pa , CIDS program forced upon owners I decided to look into RAAUS and LSA aircraft. Sold the Cessna, did the 5 hr conversion to RAA and purchased a piper sport..

 

Cruse 110Kts TAS, Approach 70 Kts Threshold 55Kts, Flap extension 75 Kts - very simular to the cessna. Operational costs minimal. Fuel burn 20l/hr Mogas, maintenance less than half that of the cessna if i get an L2 to do it otherwise cheaper if i do it myself (where safe to do so). What i have found with the LSA class is you pick your days. performance is similar but being so lite you feel the flight, this i actually like but a hot windy day can be testing. I keep my PPL current for if i need controlled airspace or more than 2 seats but RAA has won me over. My suggestion, if you are not going to go commercial and try for the big ones do the 5 hours and see, Hire rate at our club is around $120 / hr wet for tecnam aircraft.

 

 

[aplund]

Congratulations - regarding flying VH and LSA. I owned a C172 for 15 years and operational costs over that time steadly increased finally making private ownership questionable with a fuel burn of 34l/h @ $2:50 / l, 100hrly / annuals around $5000 / pa , CIDS program forced upon owners I decided to look into RAAUS and LSA aircraft. Sold the Cessna, did the 5 hr conversion to RAA and purchased a piper sport..Cruse 110Kts TAS, Approach 70 Kts Threshold 55Kts, Flap extension 75 Kts - very simular to the cessna. Operational costs minimal. Fuel burn 20l/hr Mogas, maintenance less than half that of the cessna if i get an L2 to do it otherwise cheaper if i do it myself (where safe to do so). What i have found with the LSA class is you pick your days. performance is similar but being so lite you feel the flight, this i actually like but a hot windy day can be testing.

Thank you for your post. This information is fairly up-lifiting for me. I'm sorry if this ruffles feathers, but the state of GA in Australia is very sad indeed. Somehow the operators in Australia are required to put in an order of magnitude more time, effort and money than those in the USA and gain little if not loose out a bit over what is possible in the USA. Is there any evidence that compares these costs across different countries and the safety outcomes? It'd be nice to know if this order of magnitude effort results in an order of magnitude improvement in safety.

 

I keep my PPL current for if i need controlled airspace or more than 2 seats but RAA has won me over. My suggestion, if you are not going to go commercial and try for the big ones do the 5 hours and see, Hire rate at our club is around $120 / hr wet for tecnam aircraft.

When you say "current", do you mean to do 3 TO&L within 90 days in a VH- aircraft or just the 24 month flight reviews and do the TO&L requirement if you want to take PAX? I did read that CAO 95.55 for RA-Aus and it seems there is some interaction with Part 61 licenses particularly about CTR/CTA.

 

It'd be great if the MTOW for CAO 95.55 was 500kg higher. I don't quite understand why the exemptions apply for light aircraft as I would have thought (as you say) that control of them could be more difficult in some situations due to a lower mass.

 

It's being revoked next year it seems. I don't quite understand why that sunset clause is in there.

 

I need some time (and hence money) before I commit to things. But from what I've read over the past couple of days, I'll be seriously looking into the RA-Aus Certificate. Oh, and the 5 hours, is this done at ~$200/hours dual time?

 

 

[REastwood]

Hi aplund,

 

Congrats on the PPL, I started with RA-Aus then after an issue with a Jabiru I went to GA - PPL, NVFR, IR and bought a C172M and never looked back. A couple of notes regarding some questions above;

 

Why a C172 and not a 152? Especially for training a C172 will last a lot longer (engine wise) than a 152. Family had a flying school back in the 70's and initially had 152's, none got to TBO, not good in hot weather etc. Went to 172's and cost of maintenance dropped nearly by half. My Cessna has done nearly 11,000 hours but the previous owner rebuilt the wings, tailplane, rudder, new firewall, paint job etc so passed the SIDS with total cost $3000 (over two annuals). It has the MOGAS STC so with Fuel, maintenance, insurance, hangarage etc on 75 hours/year it costs me $130/hour to fly. I paid $45,000 for it (Two years of hire&fly) and did a lot of my training in it. It has nearly paid for itself in 5 years.

 

With regard to RA-Aus conversion, I see they have changed to rules, it used to be no minimum hours unless it was for a Low Performance Aircraft (<55knots) but now it is 5 hours with 1 hour PIC. If your ultimate goal is to own an aircraft then do the sums. There are good Pipers/Cessnas/Other (Piels, Aeronca, beechcraft etc) aircraft out there for $25K-$60 while Tecnams, Evektors, CT etc can be $40K above that. $40,000 pays for a lot of fuel and maintenance. With maintenance, there is no reason why a 100 hourly should cost $5000. Under the CASA regulations there are a lot of things you can do yourself and prepare the aircraft for inspection, reducing the cost considerably. If you just take your aircraft to a LAME, drop it off and pick it up when it is all finished then yes, it will cost a lot. Also look at Experimental aircraft, there are some wonderful planes out there and the cost of ownership is less than certified aircraft.

 

Think about what you would like to do - touring, day trips away, sunny day flying, bush strips, etc. then look at buying an aircraft that is best suited to that task (the Cessna 172 will do all these things easily but of course I'm biased!).