120hpTurboprop engine

[Nobody]

[bexrbetter]

For your peace of mind, perhaps you could think of our launch engine as the TA90TP, referring to 90kW

Phhttt, who would buy a 90 when you can have 120 for the same price, more power!

 

 

[SDQDI]

I think Aplunds grammar and spelling auto-correct function kicked in. I believe he actually meant to write "What a jewel!" in reference to our engine. It just came out wrong...BTW, very nice of you to say so Aplund. All nice comments are appreciated.

 

I am sure he wouldn't mind that testimonial being put on your advertising:thumb up:

 

 

[aplund]

I think Aplunds grammar and spelling auto-correct function kicked in. I believe he actually meant to write "What a jewel!" in reference to our engine. It just came out wrong...BTW, very nice of you to say so Aplund. All nice comments are appreciated.

 

Good to know you can translate auto-correct. (It was just my standard whinge after having to teach Engineering Thermodynamics in US units once for a US student. Oh the pain!)

I'd love to have some general pointers about what you are thinking in the design of this engine. I've often thought about why there aren't more people selling turbos in this power/weight range. It seems there are a couple of major objections: there won't be enough pilots capable of using them (i.e. need a special rating), starting will require a start kart, will need a new/significantly modified air-frame, fuels/oils will be unavailable or expensive, maintenance will be too complex.

 

I think you've covered the last two to some degree above. Are you able to discuss or point me to any information on any of these other issues for your design?

 

 

[flyvulcan]

As part of our service, our company intends to offer an FAA/CASA approved turbine transition course that will include an online study module to provide the necessary theory about turbine engines and how to operate them. The course will require probably one classroom day to consolidate the online learning module and then a probably one day flight module that will provide practical experience operating our engines, likely in a 2 seat trainer.

 

Starting the engine will be simple. The engine has an electric starter generator, so the aircrafts battery starts the engine. Once the engine is running, the starter becomes the generator. The start will all be automatic. Engine master switch on, press the start button. About 1 minute later, the engine will be at idle. From then on, the single lever throttle controls power requirements. Throttle position sets a % rpm. You will learn to fly on %'s. i.e. 100 knots IAS straight and level in your aircraft at 2000' will require a setting of (say) 75%. At 10,000' it may be 85% setting. Very easy. Base turn actions - Roll, Power (55%), attitude, trim. Easy. Go around actions - simultaneously throttle to the stop (check engine indications), raise attitude, retract flaps if that is your procedure on your aircraft, positive climb gear up if you have retractable gear etc. Easy.

 

The truth is that turbines are much simpler to operate than piston engines. As well as engine control, full protection is normally provided to turbine engines by their computers etc. so you wont have mixture controls, carby heat or prop pitch to muck around with.

 

As long as weight and balance is correct, our TA120TP is intended to bolt directly to any Rotax 912 mounts so no major airframe modifications should be required, although some components/ballast may need to be moved forward to keep the cg in its correct location. Our engine will have a set of mounts developed such that it can bolt straight onto existing Rotax bed or firewall mounting points with the prop flange being in the identical location as the Rotaxes. We want folks to swap their Rotaxes out for our engine so we have to make it a simple excercise.

 

The engine is planned not to use oil, but this will be confirmed as part of our current optimization and redesign program. Only the gearbox will use oil.

 

Maintenance should be done by qualified personnel and we plan to have authorised service centers and personnel. Hopefully, scheduled and routine maintenance requirements will be lower than for the Rotaxes.

 

Why aren't more turbine engines being developed? It costs a bucket to develop these engines, that's probably the main reason. Many do not perceive there to be a market for these engines within the recreational fraternity. I don't agree with that and our visit to Oshkosh last year and our ongoing contact and engagement with enthusiasts supports our belief that a market does exist. However, we need to be extremely responsible and careful about how we go about developing and introducing these engines. Time will tell if it will be a success.

 

There are a few answers. Our website will be up and running soon and there will be more answers there.

 

 

[frank marriott]

there won't be enough pilots capable of using them (i.e. need a special rating)

The rating BGT (basis gas turbines) was removed in the 1980s as an obtainable rating - now part of aircraft type endorsement.

 

 

[aplund]

Consider me tickled pink.

 

I do like the idea of a combined starter/generator. It's what electric motors were meant for.

 

I find resistance out there to computer controlled engine operation, usually couched as a safety issue. I think, in the modern era, any safety issue related to computer reliability can be managed just like the reliability of any other component.

 

Let us know when you have more details on the Web.

 

 

[Tucano]

The Tucano is designed to accept up to 180hp so 160hp would be nice = 2000 ft/min plus.

 

This engine is definitely on the radar but a issue in RAA

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Forgive me for being negative but - arent turbine engines not allowed in recreational aircraft.

 

You really are only able to direct this engine at GA aircraft. Where almost all are limited to the engine type they are certified with. So the only class of aircraft suitable for aiming at are GA experimental.

 

That's a pretty small market.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

That's a pretty small market.

What about America?

 

 

[flyvulcan]

Forgive me for being negative but - arent turbine engines not allowed in recreational aircraft.You really are only able to direct this engine at GA aircraft. Where almost all are limited to the engine type they are certified with. So the only class of aircraft suitable for aiming at are GA experimental.

That's a pretty small market.

Hi Jaba,

 

You are correct. Turbine engines are currently precluded from being used in Light Sport Aircraft. However, we (with the support of LAMA and the EAA) will be petitioning the FAA for regulatory amendment/exemption to allow the use of turbine engines. We have commenced the draft petition and believe that we have a very strong case for the petition to be approved (based on safety, simplicity and benefits to the sector principals). We shall also likely be spearheading the push at ASTM to develop the applicable standard for turbine engines used in LSAs.

 

The experimental market will be our initially main and primary market. There are over 25,000 registered experimental CofA aircraft in the USA alone, with over 70,000 worldwide. About half of those are estimated to use a powerplant of around 100hp. These aircraft represent the retrofit market. We will also have access to the new-build market.

 

We also have other markets available to us.

 

We only need to sell 200 engines per year to cover our annual operating costs. Any sales above that amount will be recouping initial investment and generating profit.

 

Rotax sells 3,500-4,000 912/914 engines per year into all the relevant markets. We only need to gain less than 10% of their market to be a successful operation. I am confident that with the right product, backed up by excellent product support that we can achieve that.

 

 

[Tucano]

For 200 to 30 per year fuel economy at the 80 - 100 hp cruise power will have to set new standards at that level as most LSA have 90 liters - the tucano has a 100 liter tank option and we are looking at 50 liter [total] underwing pods but that limits the aircraft to single seat operation but the cool-o-meter goes to HOT with the tanks on

 

 

[flyvulcan]

For 200 to 30 per year fuel economy at the 80 - 100 hp cruise power will have to set new standards at that level as most LSA have 90 liters - the tucano has a 100 liter tank option and we are looking at underwing pods but that limits the aircraft to single seat operation but the cool-o-meter goes to HOT with the tanks on

A high reading on the cool-o-meter is likely to be one of the reasons that some customers will choose to use our engines. The sound of that silky smooth turbine is just so incredibly soothing compared to the relative clatter of a piston engine.

 

 

[Marty_d]

We want folks to swap their Rotaxes out for our engine

For anyone out there swapping their Rotax for one of flyvulcan's turbos, please note that I'll be in the market for a Rotax about the time his engine is available...

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Good to know you can translate auto-correct.

The inventor of auto-correct died recently.

 

He was very I'll.

 

 

[M61A1]

The inventor of auto-correct died recently.He was very I'll.

That's alright...when the inventor of the USB port died, they lowered him into the grave, then raised him again turned him around and put him back in.

 

 

[flyvulcan]

Upgraded to LUST.....

 

Sent a email to factory with all the notes and the link - we talked about this at the last visit and agreed that one effect is the nose wheel would have to move to the prototype actual location. Right now FAA 51% approval is the next goal.

 

 

 

Keep going

 

 

 

Gary

Hi Gary,

 

I just found this photo from last years Oshkosh. I thought you'd like it. Putting our slimline turboprop engine into this replica would give it such a great look, great performance and original sound.

 

Imagine a 200hp retractable gear version...

 

When can I get a fly in one?

 

 

Dave

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Yup, the desirability of a Tucano turbine (even sounds right!) is pretty high.

 

 

[flyvulcan]

We now have a more informative website up and running (Www.turb.aero). This was introduced just in time for our delivery slot reservation program to be launched last week at the Sun'n'fun air show in Florida. We are excited to have received our first orders.

 

It was also pleasing for us that we got a terrific reception from pretty well all the manufacturers who attended that event. The interest shown in our engine range (120 and 200hp versions) was very high and we have received offers of support for our program from some of the manufacturers who are keen to integrate our engines into their airframes.

 

Now we have the challenging but exciting task of developing our prototype engine into the commercial engine and bring it to the market. Interesting and very busy times ahead!

 

 

[Marty_d]

We now have a more informative website up and running (Www.turb.aero). This was introduced just in time for our delivery slot reservation program to be launched last week at the Sun'n'fun air show in Florida. We are excited to have received our first orders. It was also pleasing for us that we got a terrific reception from pretty well all the manufacturers who attended that event. The interest shown in our engine range (120 and 200hp versions) was very high and we have received offers of support for our program from some of the manufacturers who are keen to integrate our engines into their airframes.

 

Now we have the challenging but exciting task of developing our prototype engine into the commercial engine and bring it to the market. Interesting and very busy times ahead!

Good site. I was visitor #44...

 

I didn't think this'd be of any use to me, the front end of a 701 not being a very streamlined unit in any case, but then I read the bit about WWII replicas and their sleek cowls... maybe I'll get back to you in 15-20 years...!

 

 

[flyvulcan]

Good site. I was visitor #44...I didn't think this'd be of any use to me, the front end of a 701 not being a very streamlined unit in any case, but then I read the bit about WWII replicas and their sleek cowls... maybe I'll get back to you in 15-20 years...!

Why wait Marty? Try it out on your 701 then when you've finished your Spitfire, transplant it from the 701 into the Spitty.

 

Sheeeez that looks nice!!!

Wally, have a look at these other aircraft whose manufacturers have expressed an interest in our engines and drool some more:

 

The Arion Lightning

 

 

The Blackshape Prime

 

 

The CubCrafters Carbon Cub

 

 

The Airplane Factory Sling 2

 

 

There are many more interesting aircraft not shown here whose manufacturers have offered us their support.

 

Dave

 

 

[facthunter]

I'd take the Carbon Cub but like the look of the Tucano. I think fun rather than fast flying is more the aim of what we are about. If you are in a hurry you will hit turbulence much harder, need longer runways generally, and probably want retractable gear which has small wheels and brakes, so needs good landing areas. All this stuff is a far cry from the offerings of even 20 years ago (and quite expensive so not available to all). All part of the mix. Nev

 

 

[Downunder]

The props on these would be inflight-adjustable? Connected to the throttle/power position?

 

 

[flyvulcan]

The props on these would be inflight-adjustable? Connected to the throttle/power position?

The propellors will by necessity be constant speed units. With a free turbine driving the prop, it will be desirable to use a constant speed prop to allow the power turbine to operate at its optimum rpm, and also, to prevent overspeeds, a suitable constant speed prop system will be quite necessary.

 

We are likely to be working in conjunction with a single constant speed prop system manufacturer to provide an optimum prop solution for our engines. As you will note on our website, we plan to have 4 prop speeds available (as determined by the reduction gear ratio of the gearbox). 1800/2250/2700/3200. These prop speeds will allow for large to small props to be used and we will plan to have blades that will be appropriate for the required application.

 

And yes, the engine/prop will all be automatically controlled by the single power lever. You want to go faster, push the power lever forward; more fuel is squirted in, more power is available, prop wants to spin faster, constant speed unit increases the pitch to maintain rpm, aircraft goes faster. Same for a climb. Do the opposite for a speed reduction/descent. Easy!

 

Dave

 

 

[Mick]

FlyV I am going to have to convince the wife that we need your turboprop & a 5 bladed prop for our Skylark, that long nose is just begging for a couple of turbine exhausts hanging out!