jetjr Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Plenty claim the MPC is box ticking exercise and a very expensive one Even with this they cannot maintain an aircraft they didn't build or and engine they didn't have "significant input" into SAAA self maintenance only applies to builders it would seem Every other aircraft has LAME servicing - we don't want that but its a course CASA could send us on quite easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Authorised workshops and your hangar are both places where distraction can occur.. If you answer a phone there's is a job disconnect, and potential error point. Someone shouldn't be talking to you while you are working , same as you don't tell pub jokes in late final in a storm doing an ILS . When you are doing aeroplane stuff, THINK AEROPLANE. I could write a book about things that went wrong with planes that came out of service, Particularly MAJOR ones all done in authorised workshops and signed off under a signature of an approved person(s).. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 The end game may be take maintenance out of the hands of pilots and into the hands of professional maintainers.ie - first introduce a hurdle such as an exam, then when some comply (so as to continue legally maintaining their aircraft) and some drop off, then introduce another hurdle (practical test) so some comply and the majority drop off due to the impracticabilities of travel, time & cost etc. of getting the course done. And then of course there is update/refresher training. So the result will be some keep maintaining their aircraft as before for stuff they are capable of doing but no longer do log book entries (to avoid detection) or bite the bullet and use professional maintainer for everything.Either way a bad result for all concerned. OK Bill what would be the outcome if RAAus aircraft are maintained by a LAME workshop that means all the same codswallop as the GA brigade.If that happens that will be the death of RAAus as that means more restrictions and cost than GA. The members better stand up and get counted s no one in management are doing any favours. Only we hear, SAFTEY, SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY. We hear nothing of *process *culture to arrive at safety. KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 the surest way to harder regulation is to offer no solution to perceptions (real or not) and ignore existing requirements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billwoodmason Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 OK Bill what would be the outcome if RAAus aircraft are maintained by a LAME workshop that means all the same codswallop as the GA brigade.If that happens that will be the death of RAAus as that means more restrictions and cost than GA.The members better stand up and get counted s no one in management are doing any favours. Only we hear, SAFTEY, I also think SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY. We hear nothing of *process *culture to arrive at safety. KP Keith - I’m all for owner operators L1, L2, L3, L4s maintaining RAA aircraft. GA trained LAME’s generally do not have expertise with Rotax or Jabiru engines etc. and so are a long way off being able to effectively maintain them. I disagree with how the L1 exam has been introduced - I think the Pilots who held the rating should have recieved a dispensation and kept their rating. New pilots with no mechanical experience be made to sit the exam. The GA influence in our managers and tech team is having a disasterous effect on our core beliefs and will chase a lot of people away from RAA. It will be worse if they introduce weight increases as has been mooted. It’s been said by some on here that to make change all you have to do is stand for office. What a load of BS. We had an effective way to be heard with regional reps prior to the new constitution coming into being. The new constitution has ensured that members thoughts never reach the board or RAA employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Oh!.....Bill.....I have to give you a ditto for that one. No truer words typed. KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 If the online test is so easy so as to be of little benefit, or ignore because its beneath you, how can it be such an imposition. Easier to get everyone to do it, than to spend time evaluating who does and doesnt need to. Maybe a real concern is those who believe they are great mechanics and actually are not. Cant grandfather out 10,000 members and assume they all know what they are doing. If people cant be bothered to run through this process, it would take some convincing to anyone in regulator to show they cared about currency and keeping other documents up to date or generally took aircraft servicing seriously. It can hardly be seen as an attack on the core of RAA and has nothing to do with RAA structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 jetjr What is your real name? Are you actually part of the "NEW PERFECT" board or just an overt supporter of everything M&M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Nothing to do with Raa, other than beng a member. Just dont buy into conspiracy BS that seems to be so frequently spoken about here Some seem to complain for the sake of it or have an old cross to bear and often cant justify views. Ill never change that. Majority or members are pretty happy and just want to continue enjoying flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 No problem, just wondered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McDowall Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Nothing to do with Raa, other than beng a member. Just dont buy into conspiracy BS that seems to be so frequently spoken about hereSome seem to complain for the sake of it or have an old cross to bear and often cant justify views. Ill never change that.Majority or members are pretty happy and just want to continue enjoying flying Maybe its is not so much conspiracy BS, but a recognition of how organisations develop. Agricultural co-ops are a good parallel, the latest being the Murray Goulburn - a corporatised co-op where the board were asleep at the wheel whilst the "professional" managers led the shareholders (aka members) down the garden path. It wasn't until milk prices plummeted did the folly be seen for what it was. History has plenty more examples.Whilst no-one can predict what event may possibly befall RAA, or when, it is healthy to be aware that something may happen. I think Bobby Kennedy said something along the lines of : 95% know something happened 4% know what happened, and 1% made it happen. (or maybe it was Oscar Wilde) Either way, simply pay your dues and keeping your head down is not the answer. After all as Edmund Burke said “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I agree members should keep watch on managers of an organisation the have interest in. However managers are there to manage, not to keep everyone happy and often arent popular. Its also not a small footy club where everyone gets a say in decisions I have watched good people in management be beaten down by small groups of loud complaintants. They get sick of it and leave. The end result is often juat a new target for complainers and they start again. We will run out of people suited to the roles and pay more for less. Same can be seen in politics. I think maybe RAA is the most stable its been for many years and the goalposts continue to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McDowall Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 And in Canberra the political class are driven by small groups, media and pollsters. Yet we think that we live in a democratic society but is it a Participatory democracy? A true democracy is a participatory democracy which involves more than turning up every so often to cast a vote. It REQUIRES its members to discourse, to argue amongst ourselves in an effort to achieve an outcome. It may not be the outcome that suits us all, but at least it reflects the totality of input. This forum is part of that discussion. I agree with your comment about the malcontents in small organisations but RAA is 10,000 strong. Even major public companies have these issues, just observe what is happening to BHP and the agitating hedge fund. Ask yourself this question which is pertinent to the Part 149 issue _ "what happens if RAA goes bust - where do we sit then?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 THAT is a real concern and people skirt around the key issues blaming the costs of online testing, staff travel, office drinks and stationary for example and ignoring $150+ K per year expenditure on a paper magazine. The members demanded this because some couldn't work out or couldn't be bothered how to download a PDF A good example of populist management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Majority or members are pretty happy and just want to continue enjoying flying Always reckon that is something a board members says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billwoodmason Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 jetjrWhat is your real name? Are you actually part of the "NEW PERFECT" board or just an overt supporter of everything M&M. There appears to be a number of lobbyists on here I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Most people "JUST want to fly their planes" may be true but doesn't address the problem. It's a motherhood statement and stifles discussion. I, by and large want to see RAAus go ahead. BUT IF it's the "New GA" It may not be what I want . I've said that all along.. Could be that the U/L movement has been hijacked. Certainly it has IF the new GA concept goes ahead.. What CASA wants is unknown and just being bigger is not the answer for a "Niche" group like us. So far it looks like more costly and complex and more paperwork is the way we are going.. More management and less aviation basic knowledge happening. We don't have to reinvent the wheel. The Yanks have done this quite well over time and we could do well to copy some of their methods. Of course they have more people (and Cash) but the lessons are there to see. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 yeah just words but based on member input pretty true. 8000 members trust RAA enough to run itself and pay up every year to not even vote. Not sure if high-jacked is the word, but maybe it has changed into something different. Driven by those who are footing the bill and make up a likely majority of members - LSA drivers Id suggest RAA wold be long dead without the incoming of new members and more professional management. It doesn't make sense that RAA management are driving themselves towards "GA", It is very likely CASA, probably through manual review process and audits, indicate what would be acceptable. I'm yet to see the paperwork, restrictions and complexities some complain about but the risk is always there of it being pushed down on us. The GA std of doing things is still the standard. We operate in exemptions. And no Bill, at best a different point of view or maybe I just like arguing with people in my spare time.....you choose. Lobbyist? surely youre kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 8000 members trust RAA enough to run itself and pay up every year to not even vote. Probably the same amount that don't know any of those they could vote for, and possibly the ones they do know, they wouldn't vote for.A statement in the RAA mag is hardly enough information to be making informed choices. That said, I can't think of a better method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Are we going the GA way? Have a look at the constitution. I mean the new constitution, surely that controls which way we are going. Personally I think it was a crock of you know what and I don't know which way we are going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McDowall Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Id suggest RAA wold be long dead without the incoming of new members and more professional management. GFA has proved that an organisation can disappear up its own tailpipe by sucking up to the regulator and producing reams of paperwork which demonstrably is not followed. Over the last 30 years the membership has halved, the average age of members has increased at a rate greater than the population generally, clubs are dying and accidents are killing people a rate far faster than the dodgy statistics show. The organisation is demographically destined to fall of the proverbial cliff within the next decade.This is a lesson that RAA must learn from. In respect of the magazine issue I would much prefer to see the money spent on developing the website (no I'm not in IT) and the tech/ops bulletins emailed direct to members. Reading magazines on the screen is cumbersome and a vast majority of the data consumed in transmission is bumpf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 download the pdf Don't know why they don't email that out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 download the pdfDon't know why they don't email that out Possibly because the damn thing would take half my monthly internet data ... out here my only option for Internet is my phone - Telstra provide no internet and nbn goes past my property but only exists in towns at either end of the fibre bundle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 If the online test is so easy so as to be of little benefit, or ignore because its beneath you, how can it be such an imposition.Easier to get everyone to do it, than to spend time evaluating who does and doesnt need to. Maybe a real concern is those who believe they are great mechanics and actually are not.Cant grandfather out 10,000 members and assume they all know what they are doing. If people cant be bothered to run through this process, it would take some convincing to anyone in regulator to show they cared about currency and keeping other documents up to date or generally took aircraft servicing seriously. It can hardly be seen as an attack on the core of RAA and has nothing to do with RAA structure. Well I for one am utterly pissed off that it has been removed off my certificate after about 12yrs. Once you have a qalification and unless you stuff up legally in most circumstances it cant be taken from you. I for one am seriously considering filing a writ on RAA in the Supreme Court for a declaration in the matter. In my view what they have done is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Might be better spend your time earning the qualification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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