Sav into water at Conway beach Qld on 13 November 2022 crew ok.

[Blueadventures]

56 minutes ago, eightyknots said:

Any more word on the immersed Savannah❓

They got it out the next day.  Not sure what he intends to do with it.  Both are ok.  said could not open doors until cockpit almost flooded.  Same as car doors that won't open until filled.

[IBob]

That'll be a writeoff, surely: salt water in all those 6061 lap joints.

Interesting to hear about opening the doors: I would have guessed that would be the case. And due to the gas strut mounted at the rear edge of the doors, popping them in flight results in the door slamming open, and in at least one case mentioned here, slamming and jamming shut. So, useful to know as we traverse Cooke Strait here in NZ.........

I'm assuming they didn't turn over when they hit the water?

[Blueadventures]

Yes write off, only very few parts could be reused. It did not flip.  Owner thought they may not get out the doors.

[IBob]

Thanks for the update Blueadventures.

And I can well imagine it would be pretty stressful having to wait for the pressure to equalise before being able to open the doors.

The ditching advice I received from a hugely experienced pilot pretty much boiled down to 'try to drop it on rather than flipping, as flipping can be disorienting, then move deliberately (don't panic!)'
I would think one item to be mindful of would be not to activate the inflatable lifejacket until out of the safety harness and exiting the aircraft: would seem to be common sense (isn't it always, in retrospect?), but we recently had a terrible accident here where an entire small group of whale watchers died under an overturned boat in daylight calm weather: the investigation is still underway, but it seems quite possible they inflated their life vests under the boat (quite probably as they were told to do if 'in the water') and so were trapped under the boat by their own buoyancy.

That may not be the case, but as things stand it is difficult to explain otherwise.

[turboplanner]

47 minutes ago, IBob said:

Thanks for the update Blueadventures.

And I can well imagine it would be pretty stressful having to wait for the pressure to equalise before being able to open the doors.

The ditching advice I received from a hugely experienced pilot pretty much boiled down to 'try to drop it on rather than flipping, as flipping can be disorienting, then move deliberately (don't panic!)'
I would think one item to be mindful of would be not to activate the inflatable lifejacket until out of the safety harness and exiting the aircraft: would seem to be common sense (isn't it always, in retrospect?), but we recently had a terrible accident here where an entire small group of whale watchers died under an overturned boat in daylight calm weather: the investigation is still underway, but it seems quite possible they inflated their life vests under the boat (quite probably as they were told to do if 'in the water') and so were trapped under the boat by their own buoyancy.

That may not be the case, but as things stand it is difficult to explain otherwise.

Shock; the only way top stop it is go over and over and over in your mind that advice above. Some people can naturally think it through even while its happening; shock makes you do silly things - walk up a busy freeway after a head on, or like I did in a go kart, get hit with a big thump but only a wrist injury, get out of the go kart then walk up the racing line to get away.  A friend of mine survived an airline hijack out of fuel ditching. The Crew briefed everyone that they were out of fuel and going down in the ocean, had them all put on their life jackets, instructed them not to pull the cords until they were out of the aircraft. The pilot got as close to the shore as possible (where coincidentally there was a convention of surgeons). The aircraft hit the water and broke in half. My friend found himself swimming with, I think, a brojen arm, pulled the cord, swam back in and saved a few. The tail was the highest point of the rear half. A lot of people died up at the rear, forced there because they'd opened their jackets in the aircraft.

[IBob]

Yep, shock is a wild card, even when you know you are suffering from it:
Long time ago I rolled a Holden down a very long bank with 3 of us on the front bench seat. When we came to rest there was no glass in the car, every panel was bent, the engine and gearbox were off their mounts and the gas tank was empty, having torn open on a fence we passed through along the way. Our final roll was arrested by a power pole, which stove in the roof just behind us. Sounds dramatic, it was and I'm not making any of it up.

 

The 3 of us were amazingly unhurt, probably because we were packed in snug so didn't rattle around too much.

And all in shock:

The guy in the middle was gone, unbelted, climbed over the other passenger, out the window, up the bank and was walking in circles on the road.
The other passenger slumped and burst into tears and I had to persuade him to get out of the car, which I feared would burn.

And once I had him out, I became obsessed with finding my sunglasses, which had been on the front shelf, but had departed along with the rest of the glass somewhere on the bank.

I knew it made no sense, but that's what I was doing.

 

[rankamateur]

https://www.mackayandwhitsundaylife.com/article/i-thought-we-were-going-to-drown-plane-crash-survivor-shares-story

 

This article shows a photo of the wreckage. Would be interesting to know it the under carriage inverted during the ditching or the recovery. I could also have impacted the ability to open the doors inverted like that.

Edited November 19, 2022 by rankamateur

[IBob]

That's an excellent description of the ditching/door situation.
I would think the UC was damaged during the salvage, Rankamateur: it's inverted forward and if the tail was sticking up, presumably they would have dragged it backwards. Regardless, once the door was no longer held to the fuselage by water pressure, I think you could deform it, if necessary to get it fully open. Or, put another way, the doors are quite light and flimsy when free, only rigid when pressed tight against the fuselage.

[IBob]

Blueadventures, any idea what went wrong that they had to ditch???

[Thruster88]

13/11/2022	Conway	QLD	I C P	Savannah	Rotax	912	STATUS: Under review OCCURRENCE DETAILS SUBMITTED TO RAAUS: The pilot didn’t realise the aircraft...
STATUS: Under review OCCURRENCE DETAILS SUBMITTED TO RAAUS: The pilot didn’t realise the aircraft was descending slowly, it then touched the water and stopped. It then sank in the mouth of the Proserpine River.

[Blueadventures]

Agree, thanks T88.

 

[turboplanner]

On 20/11/2022 at 4:29 PM, IBob said:

Blueadventures, any idea what went wrong that they had to ditch???

This doesn't indicate a ditching:  

On this particular morning, however, Rogin had taken a different path, eager to show his passenger some crocodiles in the Proserpine River.

Unfortunately, during this process the plane had started to lose altitude and before he could pull-up it suddenly hit the water.

“It made a huge bang and I actually thought we’d hit a boat,” explained Rogin.

 

It looks to me like:

(a) Flying below 500 feet

(b) Camera syndrome (someone in the aircraft wants a special photo, and tells the pilot to "turn, turn, turn"....."more, more" the pilottries to see what the passenger is looking at and the get into a spiral dive or stall.)

 

Flying at 500 feet gives an excellent wide view above ground obstacles, insurance from power lines, wind shear, minor mistakes.

Camera flying/whale or croc spotting: photos, spotting ahead  up to quarter view, pilot does the flying, passenger does the photo/spotting. Where the camera passes the perfect shot, rate 1 turn and oval back, then back up the track for a better position. I just counted 84 shots in 1 hour ground to ground using this method.

 

 

 

[BrendAn]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

This doesn't indicate a ditching:  

On this particular morning, however, Rogin had taken a different path, eager to show his passenger some crocodiles in the Proserpine River.

Unfortunately, during this process the plane had started to lose altitude and before he could pull-up it suddenly hit the water.

“It made a huge bang and I actually thought we’d hit a boat,” explained Rogin.

 

It looks to me like:

(a) Flying below 500 feet

(b) Camera syndrome (someone in the aircraft wants a special photo, and tells the pilot to "turn, turn, turn"....."more, more" the pilottries to see what the passenger is looking at and the get into a spiral dive or stall.)

 

Flying at 500 feet gives an excellent wide view above ground obstacles, insurance from power lines, wind shear, minor mistakes.

Camera flying/whale or croc spotting: photos, spotting ahead  up to quarter view, pilot does the flying, passenger does the photo/spotting. Where the camera passes the perfect shot, rate 1 turn and oval back, then back up the track for a better position. I just counted 84 shots in 1 hour ground to ground using this method.

 

 

 

Maybe they wanted a closeup of the crocs😁

[Blueadventures]

3 hours ago, turboplanner said:

This doesn't indicate a ditching:  

On this particular morning, however, Rogin had taken a different path, eager to show his passenger some crocodiles in the Proserpine River.

Unfortunately, during this process the plane had started to lose altitude and before he could pull-up it suddenly hit the water.

“It made a huge bang and I actually thought we’d hit a boat,” explained Rogin.

 

It looks to me like:

(a) Flying below 500 feet

(b) Camera syndrome (someone in the aircraft wants a special photo, and tells the pilot to "turn, turn, turn"....."more, more" the pilottries to see what the passenger is looking at and the get into a spiral dive or stall.)

 

Flying at 500 feet gives an excellent wide view above ground obstacles, insurance from power lines, wind shear, minor mistakes.

Camera flying/whale or croc spotting: photos, spotting ahead  up to quarter view, pilot does the flying, passenger does the photo/spotting. Where the camera passes the perfect shot, rate 1 turn and oval back, then back up the track for a better position. I just counted 84 shots in 1 hour ground to ground using this method.

 

 

 

Turbo is this fact or fiction as I don't recall reading that statement by Rogin.

[turboplanner]

2 hours ago, BrendAn said:

Maybe they wanted a closeup of the crocs😁

or making the brumbies run, or scaring campers and nude sunbakers. When you go through the records there's not much people haven't come unstuck on.  Saddest I know was the Auster pilot a few years ago who flew in to a Western District airfield, had an enjoyable lunch with friends. They drive him back to the airport and he took off then came screaming around in a banked turn through the space between two hangars....which had a very secure power cable between them. He burnt to death at the feet of the friends.

[turboplanner]

5 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

Turbo is this fact or fiction as I don't recall reading that statement by Rogin.

Mackay and Witsunday Life interview - phone Rachael.

 

[Blueadventures]

Thanks Turbo as I had not seen or heard that and I will be meeting up with Rogin in near future.

[eightyknots]

1 hour ago, turboplanner said:

or making the brumbies run, or scaring campers and nude sunbakers. When you go through the records there's not much people haven't come unstuck on.  Saddest I know was the Auster pilot a few years ago who flew in to a Western District airfield, had an enjoyable lunch with friends. They drive him back to the airport and he took off then came screaming around in a banked turn through the space between two hangars....which had a very secure power cable between them. He burnt to death at the feet of the friends.

Very sad. 😢

[eightyknots]

4 hours ago, BrendAn said:

Maybe they wanted a closeup of the crocs😁

They may have swimming alongside them!