SGM Posted Monday at 04:19 AM Posted Monday at 04:19 AM Personally, I think any flight school passing on a $15,000 excess to a student should be publicly named here (and shamed). It's not defamation just the reality of how they are doing business. 1 2
BrendAn Posted Monday at 04:23 AM Author Posted Monday at 04:23 AM 3 minutes ago, SGM said: Personally, I think any flight school passing on a $15,000 excess to a student should be publicly named here (and shamed). It's not defamation just the reality of how they are doing business. I don't want to go down that road yet. But I agree with you. 1
skippydiesel Posted Monday at 06:24 AM Posted Monday at 06:24 AM (edited) On thing puzzles me in the insurance excess story; Unless I am much mistaken the choice to have an excess, thereby reducing the premium, is entirely at the request of the insured. By having an excess the insured takes on some of the risk. Its conceivable that a flight school might chose to have no excess or something between this and the maximum (whatever that is). So the choice is the insured (flight school) not the customer (student). The student has no input to accept a degree of risk or not and yet in your story is held accountable - how is that? By opting for the excess ($?) the flight school has reduced its operating costs - likly increasing its profit margin. Scenarios; A. The student unlikly to benefit directly from the reduced operating costs or the increased profits. B. The flight school passes on the reduced operating costs = more competitive in attracting students = more profit Any excess payment by the student is enhancing the flight schools bottom line - profit! I don't believe the demand for the student to pay excess, that he/she did not negotiate, has any legal merit and in the end is a SCAM to increase profit margin.😈 Edited Monday at 06:24 AM by skippydiesel 1
BrendAn Posted Monday at 06:35 AM Author Posted Monday at 06:35 AM 8 minutes ago, skippydiesel said: On thing puzzles me in the insurance excess story; Unless I am much mistaken the choice to have an excess, thereby reducing the premium, is entirely at the request of the insured. By having an excess the insured takes on some of the risk. Its conceivable that a flight school might chose to have no excess or something between this and the maximum (whatever that is). So the choice is the insured (flight school) not the customer (student). The student has no input to accept a degree of risk or not and yet in your story is held accountable - how is that? By opting for the excess ($?) the flight school has reduced its operating costs - likly increasing its profit margin. Scenarios; A. The student unlikly to benefit directly from the reduced operating costs or the increased profits. B. The flight school passes on the reduced operating costs = more competitive in attracting students = more profit Any excess payment by the student is enhancing the flight schools bottom line - profit! I don't believe the demand for the student to pay excess, that he/she did not negotiate, has any legal merit and in the end is a SCAM to increase profit margin.😈 For a start. It is not a story. And how many times do we have to go over it. It's not that complicated
skippydiesel Posted Monday at 06:38 AM Posted Monday at 06:38 AM (edited) 3 minutes ago, BrendAn said: For a start. It is not a story. And how many times do we have to go over it. It's not that complicated What's wrong with "story"? Check out the various meanings of the word. AND Unless mistaken - no one has mentioned who benefits from the excess option - I just did.😈 Edited Monday at 06:39 AM by skippydiesel
BrendAn Posted Monday at 06:42 AM Author Posted Monday at 06:42 AM 3 minutes ago, skippydiesel said: What's wrong with "story"? Check out the various meanings of the word. AND Unless mistaken - no one has mentioned who benefits from the excess option - I just did.😈 I don't know what more I can say. 1
Lucky01 Posted Monday at 06:47 AM Posted Monday at 06:47 AM High excess = lower premiums Common sense.
skippydiesel Posted Monday at 07:00 AM Posted Monday at 07:00 AM 9 minutes ago, Lucky01 said: High excess = lower premiums Common sense. Ahh! - your point???
skippydiesel Posted Monday at 07:04 AM Posted Monday at 07:04 AM 18 minutes ago, BrendAn said: I don't know what more I can say. Your initial response, clearly indicated you had not read my post You could try reading it (in full) and should you be motivated by my musings , you may like to respond accordingly.😈
Lucky01 Posted Monday at 07:06 AM Posted Monday at 07:06 AM Nothing... Nothing at all... Looks like your all over it champ.
BrendAn Posted Monday at 07:21 AM Author Posted Monday at 07:21 AM 15 minutes ago, skippydiesel said: Your initial response, clearly indicated you had not read my post You could try reading it (in full) and should you be motivated by my musings , you may like to respond accordingly.😈 I understand what you are saying. I just don't know what else I can ad that I haven't already said.
facthunter Posted Monday at 08:09 AM Posted Monday at 08:09 AM Round and round it goes. Instructors get paid bugger all and I Never knew of schools which made a handsome profit. . That's the reality of the scene. Cheap Flying is a bit of an Illusion. Nev 1
Red Posted Monday at 09:20 AM Posted Monday at 09:20 AM 2 hours ago, skippydiesel said: On thing puzzles me in the insurance excess story; Unless I am much mistaken the choice to have an excess, thereby reducing the premium, is entirely at the request of the insured. By having an excess the insured takes on some of the risk. Its conceivable that a flight school might chose to have no excess or something between this and the maximum (whatever that is). So the choice is the insured (flight school) not the customer (student). The student has no input to accept a degree of risk or not and yet in your story is held accountable - how is that? By opting for the excess ($?) the flight school has reduced its operating costs - likly increasing its profit margin. Scenarios; A. The student unlikly to benefit directly from the reduced operating costs or the increased profits. B. The flight school passes on the reduced operating costs = more competitive in attracting students = more profit Any excess payment by the student is enhancing the flight schools bottom line - profit! I don't believe the demand for the student to pay excess, that he/she did not negotiate, has any legal merit and in the end is a SCAM to increase profit margin.😈 Spot on 1
BrendAn Posted Monday at 09:24 AM Author Posted Monday at 09:24 AM 3 minutes ago, Red said: Spot on Don't you start 1
Red Posted Monday at 09:45 AM Posted Monday at 09:45 AM 21 minutes ago, BrendAn said: Don't you start My opinion is allowed here I believe 1
BrendAn Posted Monday at 12:25 PM Author Posted Monday at 12:25 PM 2 hours ago, Red said: My opinion is allowed here I believe i don't think you even read the posts before you comment, now you are encouraging skippy with his rants.. 1
Red Posted Monday at 12:52 PM Posted Monday at 12:52 PM Brenden stop with grudge shit everytime someone expresses a view not aligned to yours, its getting tedious 1
BrendAn Posted Monday at 01:29 PM Author Posted Monday at 01:29 PM 32 minutes ago, Red said: Brenden stop with grudge shit everytime someone expresses a view not aligned to yours, its getting tedious no grudge. you were putting shit on me when i was trying to explain what i mean't about third party insurance. you get back what you give. i put this thread up to make people aware of something they should check out prior to training. not to have an argument with a pom on the other side of the world who looks like he is off little britain. 1 1 1
johnm Posted Monday at 09:43 PM Posted Monday at 09:43 PM apart from the rock throwing (all directions) ............ thanks Brendan - somthing to note .......... could be the answer - lets ask some flight schools and see what they say about how they treat any insurance excess - and post 2
Thruster88 Posted Monday at 11:11 PM Posted Monday at 11:11 PM When renting a car the insurance excess will be spelled out before the agreement is signed by the renter. If that hasn't happened with the student pilot then they would not be liable. 1 1
Blueadventures Posted yesterday at 12:04 AM Posted yesterday at 12:04 AM Maybe some schools add 5 or 10 dollars to their lesson price to accrue for any insurance excess for claims. If not they should think about it. 1
skippydiesel Posted yesterday at 12:11 AM Posted yesterday at 12:11 AM (edited) 1 hour ago, Thruster88 said: When renting a car the insurance excess will be spelled out before the agreement is signed by the renter. If that hasn't happened with the student pilot then they would not be liable. A far better but still lacking analogy would be ; A learner driver hiring an instructor - doubt that any excess is either mentioned or demanded The student is not hiring an aircraft. He/she is hiring a training service, which include an Instructor who is responsible for both aircraft & student As always, I doubt the legal basis for asking a student pilot to be liable for any part of the aircraft insurance. Further Even if legal - its a very poor customer relation policy - far better to incorporate ALL insurance cost in the hourly tuition fee.😈 Edited yesterday at 12:13 AM by skippydiesel 1
jackc Posted yesterday at 12:14 AM Posted yesterday at 12:14 AM Every time I see this stuff, I think of an aircraft with no numbers, a person with no training, no instructor, a plane in a big paddock, fully fueled, 100 hours YouTube training, spend half a day doing bunny hops. insurance? What that? After lunch…….just send it 😁😁 1 1
skippydiesel Posted yesterday at 12:15 AM Posted yesterday at 12:15 AM 8 minutes ago, Blueadventures said: Maybe some schools add 5 or 10 dollars to their lesson price to accrue for any insurance excess for claims. If not they should think about it. Why? The insurance cover selected by the school should be what they deem appropriate for their business/function. No further charge to the student is necessary.😈 1
Blueadventures Posted yesterday at 01:38 AM Posted yesterday at 01:38 AM 1 hour ago, skippydiesel said: Why? The insurance cover selected by the school should be what they deem appropriate for their business/function. No further charge to the student is necessary.😈 Good business sense, like $30 a lesson for maintenance and new engine at 2000 hours if Rotax. Just my opinion and post info. 1
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