Thirsty

Hi All, Sorry for the late reply on this. Here is what happened: We flew as a group up to Wentworth from Murray Bridge and in that group there were 3 LSA-55's and all were fueled to 60 litres before we left. We flew for around 2 hours and landed in the early afternoon. We then tied down for the night and went to our motels. Next morning we flew to Lake Mungo which was about 35 miles. Prior to flying out one of the LSA's refueled but the other two didn't. I guess it was thought that 36 litres would be sufficient for the flight out and back (no fuel available at Lake Mungo). We got to Lake Mungo with no problems. After departing Mungo Lodge airstrip we did a scenic flight around the Walls of China (a natural feature just out of Mungo Lodge) which added around 20 minutes to our trip time. It was on the way back to Wentworth (about 11 nm short of the field) that the LSA ran out of fuel. Total time flown when he ran out of fuel was about 3.8 or 3.9 which at 12lph and 60 litres should have left a good reserve. As usual there were a few factors that contributed to this accident. 1. The pilot was low time and hadn't been away with a group before. 2. He usually flies a J160 with lots of fuel capacity. 3. The fuel tank in that LSA is fairly opaque and it is quite hard to see the fuel level at times. 4. The sister ship to the one that crashed landed back at Wentworth with about 10 litres of fuel remaining so we would have expected the other plane to have about the same -they both burn fuel at around 12 lph. 5. The pilot of the crashed LSA didn't realise the pilot of the other LSA had refueled - he was going along with the other guys and not refuelling (he thought). 6. You can't lock the fuel tank of the LSA so it is possible fuel was stolen over night from that plane. 7. There was a certain amount of peer pressure to get going and keep up with the group. 8. The pilot didn't fly high enough or over suitable terrain on the way back from Mungo to enable a safe landing Just In Case. I'm not having a go at the pilot because this sort of thing could happen to any of us if the right circumstances arise. I'm sure he's learned a valuable lesson here and will probably never run out of fuel again. We have no idea why it ran out of fuel when it should have had some left back at Wentworth just like the other LSA. Other lessons we learned from this: Make sure you have an epirb! Pilot didn't take one partially because the plane he usually flies has one mounted all the time. We could talk to the pilot on the ground via mobile and even though he gave us his GPS coordinates we still couldn't find him from the air! He was in a light brown saltpan with the aircraft upside down and covered in dust and mud so it blended in perfectly. For some reason only one plane heard his mayday call. He made it on unicom which we were all monitoring but he probably should have had the area frequency dialled up Just In Case. Anyway, the main thing is they survived and the aircraft will be flying again next week and we all learned lots of lessons.

For those that haven't seen it yet here is what is being talked about:

Yep we burn around 30ml per hour. Jabiru reckon that's pretty low and 50ml per hour is more average. You shouldn't fill it to the middle of the hash marks, just til there's about 5mm on the bottom of the stick for local flying. And yes you will get a much better idea of your oil usage over time.

You don't need an L2 to fit it either because it's a privately used aircraft. If you're mechanically minded and you reckon you know what you're doing go ahead and do it yourself.

Yeah good one, get all the practice you can with whoever will fly with you. I'm only up at ymbd on Mondays and Tuesday's at present.

I thought about flares once then I thought I don't really want something in the plane with me that can spontaneously burst into white hot flame!

On the lines on your map draw arrow heads showing which direction you should be heading. Take a photocopy of the ERSA page of any aerodromes you are going to (Obviously still carry ERSA onboard). And number one - fly your calculated headings for the correct amount of time. Even if you didn't factor in wind changes once airborne you'd be surprised how close you can get by simply flying the flightplanned heading and time.

The last part of your last statement is the problem as I see it - why didn't the board see it through? Either there is an issue or there isn't and Ian letting his membership lapse because he was crook has nothing to do with the other supposed reasons for referring his application to the board. I read the two letters to my wife (who is a lawyer) and she too immediately picked up on the missing issues in the second letter granting Ian membership. Very strange backflip if there really is an issue with Ian and the RAA!

I don't believe there is any restriction though there was a thread on this a while back and most suggest against doing it unless there is a very good reason. In helicopters the pic sits in the rh seat probably due to the fact you can't really let go the cyclic stick so need to use the left hand to operate radios etc.

Allan, You don't know him, me or his strip. He was landing a new (to him) type of aircraft on a very short strip hence his desire to have me with him for that last leg - what the hell's wrong with that? You think all RAA pilots should be 100% capable of handling anything? I thought the Pilot Cert was a licence to learn and that is exactly what Tim is doing in his new aircraft. I'm an instructor and I'm satisfied when each of my students gets his certificate that they can handle the MAJORITY of conditions they will come across. Anyway well done Tim on finally taking your son for his first flight with you, I bet he was wrapped!

And Tim landed at his strip not me! I barely had to do anything he's pretty much got it covered. Keep flying in less than perfect conditions mate and you'll soon wonder "what bumps!".

Looking good for tomorrow. Wanna go bring it home?

Getting closer Tim. Make sure you bring your new plane out to YMBD sometime to give us a look (and maybe take me for a fly?).

Sorry but that video gave me a headache! Anyway, well done. I too like the Skyranger.

See? You always need to be looking outside!

Lots of large model aircraft use solid core foam wings with either ply or balsa sheeting then a coat of light glass fibre. Not sure how that would translate to a full size aircraft but I've seen some very large models using this construction method.

If we're talking about turning and not just flying straight and level it's definitely stick and rudder together which is how James taught me. Next time you fly give it a go and see what you reckon.

Gotta disagree with you there Doug. Most people I fly with tend to do exactly that and you end up flying out of balance. Stick and rudder together every time will get you turning nicely in balance with the lsa. The ailerons are so small you really need to get them in at the start of the turn if you want to make nice balanced turns.

I would always agree the lsa is hard to get used to. If you look back at my early posts you'll see the trouble I had! I learnt to fly in a 152 in the late 80's and eventually gave up flying partially because it got boring. I agree that the lsa isn't really the best platform to learn on but I've found in my 60 hours or so of instructing that it's not the aircrafts habits that cause the problems but the students interpretations or lack of that cause problems ie I can't tell you how many times I've said to a student push left rudder and they push the right! I reckon training in the lsa probably adds about 10% to the amount of time taken to get to solo. I had a young guy do his training full time and he was soloed at about 9 hours. Horses for courses probably and some, like me, prefer the lsa cause the challenge makes flying more fun.

A huge acheivment Motz. Wish ihad of done the same years ago. Well done.

Oziexplorer has an android version now that looks quite nice. Just google it.

I teach at rpa at Murray bridge in sa and we offer tw endo in a lightwing 582. You'll get tw, 2s and lp all in one. Pm me for more detail if you're interested.

Agreed nev. I wonder though, what pressure the pilot was under to continue with what is obviously a very marginal climb rate over very rugged looking terrain. Might have been simple bravado when surrounded by mates or maybe they had to be somewhere, who knows but the outcome was never in doubt in my opinion.

we had one of these fail on a J160 recently. It was found to be the copper wire wound thing (Inductor? I'm definately not an EE!). I tested the whole system with an AM radio as advised by Jabiru and I could hear the pulses but the tube wasn't lighting up (it's a new tube as well).

I doubt many jabs stop due to anything inside making metal. It's mostly through bolts and exhaust valves. The jab bottom ends are pretty robust.