octave

I believe vaccines development weres well under way for SARS 1 but the virus petered out Scientists were close to a coronavirus vaccine years ago. Then the money dried up. My understanding is that much of the research on a vaccine today is based on this past research. Although developing a vaccine is a difficult proposition, I do believe it can be achieved. I heard a figure this morning regarding current investment into research and whilst I don't recall the exact figure it was ell into the trillions of dollars. A vaccine is not the only hope. Consider HIV a disease that was fatal, no vaccine has been developed however it is rarely fatal these days due you do not usually die of AIDS because of antiviral therapy. In the case of Covid 19 there has been some progress with treatment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH91AVrcEFg:541

Whilst those figures are not enormous they are based on the current restrictions. The idea being put is that we should abandon the restrictions in which case these numbers mean little. It similar to the anti vax argument. Why do I need to get a polio vax when polio numbers are so low, why are polio numbers so low? because people get the vax. People are using the success we have had in keeping the numbers low to argue that because numbers are low we do not need to do anything. I would rather do what we are doing than to go down the road the US is heading.

I don't have time to write a long reply to this right now but will do later. Sweden is nowhere near hed immunity according the the architect of the Swedish response. We don't even know how long immunity lasts. Sweden's economy has still taken a huge hit and since it's neighbours have closed their borders to Sweden I don't see that it's economy will thrive. Opening borders will be a progressive thing, if we can keep our numbers low we may be able to interact with other countries such as NZ and parts of Asia. If we have high rates such as the US we will remain isolated. People have such a binary attitude thinking that you get ie and you live or die. I am not a death fearing person but I do fear dying in a hideous way or being one of the many people who survive but with debilitating and perhaps long lasting effects. The question is if we follow the US will the economy be fine? Airliners are sitting idle because of travel bans but taking those bans away will not mean that air travel returns to normal. We could as some people suggest let it rip but this would still be a massive hit to the economy and health system. There is no guarantee to herd immunity will work. For myself I would much rather contract covid as part of a gradual thing rather than in a massive wave where the health system struggles. Getting it next year is preferable to getting it now. Already the death rate has dropped slightly due to a better understanding of treatments and new drugs. What a shame it would to die or be disabled by covid now when in 6 months time there may well be better treatments such as retroviral drugs or even a vaccine.

There was of course a time when only one person in the world was infected.

I think there are issues where people have no there choice but to go to work. There was an outbreak at the meat processing work, I am not sure what exactly happened there but I can see that you could be at the mercy of your employer. Schools went back so teachers were expected `to teach face to face. If you drive an uber or a taxi and you rely on your earnings to pay your rent you may feel you have little choice. I believe a supermarket worker became infected, and of course health workers. Following the guidelines will reduce your risk but not eliminate it. I count myself as being extremely lucky that I do not need to work and the work I am doing can be done online. And then of course there are some foolish people who don't do the right thing.

I understand and accept your point. I wouldn't say that the world ignores malaria, the Gates foundation has been focused on it for years. The thing with covid is that it is everywhere including the third world. In 2018 Malaria killed approximately 405000 people worldwide. So far coid has claimed 0ver 560000 in a little over 6 months.

That is quite an old article, Feb 20 a lot has happened since then. Apart from that the article is misleading. The tittle claims that WHO no longer consider covid 19 a pandemic (FEB 20) but in the body of the article claims that there is actually no official category for pandemic and the word pandemic is a colloquial term. this does not equate with a change in status.

Sorry To be pedantic but Malaria is not a contagious disease, it is it does not spread between humans in the way covid or flu does. It can only be caught from a particular type of mosquito or blood transfusion/organ transplant etc.

Are you aware of how many people die in bed?

I would imagine every rocket that has ever carried humans has exploded in it's testing phase.

"If things are not failing, you are not innovating enough." Elon musk

An interesting analysis. The First 3 minutes is just interviews with conspiracists but the rest goes into detail. Some interesting points are. The fires were not tackled so continued unabated. The side of the building shown in the clip that conspiracists use shows the side of the building that had the least damage. This clip when presented by conspiracists omits the collapse of the rooftop penthouse before the rest of the building collapses as shown in this clip. During the video of the collapse we can not hear any explosions as you would expect in a normal demolition.

My question would be does steel retain is strength until it reaches melting point or does it begin to progressively weaken at some point before it melts? I believe steel dos begin to lose its structural integrity way before it melts. Until you addressed the number of eyewitnesses, thousands of them.

You can get a live stream here, and also videos of previous days hearings as well as transcripts. I have not delved in myself but those who are interested can check this out. Hearings - The Special Commission of Inquiry into the Ruby Princess

Our response was no more draconian than most other countries we just did it earlier. I am no fan of the government but I look upon where we are now with some level of pride. We could have handled it like Spain or the US or Brazil or Sweden and been in a similar situation to these countries. No matter what course of action we took the economy was always going to suffer to some degree. Airlines wont get back to normal simply by lifting restrictions. Many people will not book a ticket until they feel relatively safe. I am self employed luckily I am smart and resilient enough to have shifted a reasonable amount of my business online, In order to go back to normal people will need to feel safe. A second wave will deter potential customers and delay a return to normal. I think that people are erroneously comparing the pre covid economy with the lockdown economy without considering what the effect of a higher infection and death rate. I cant think of country I would rather be in at this point other than perhaps NZ. In terms of personal responsibility I would agree that we are all responsible for our own safety however sometimes the actions of others can make that more difficult. I am a private music teacher teaching wind instruments (now online) I also have a preexisting health condition which I guess in some people's eyes makes me one of the expendables, The last lesson I taught face to face was with a young guy who works for for a large bank as a trader. I had already decided that I would no longer teach face to face after this lesson until the infection rate was brought under control. At the end of the lesson whilst he was packing up I asked him how work was going. He informed me that his department had closed and they were all working from home due to an out break. I was not impressed. I did not discuss it with him but I assume his attitude may have been that covid represented a small risk to him. This of course was a much bigger risk to me. It becomes difficult for me to take responsibility for my health when I rely on others to do the right thing. I accept that these are difficult times for some people. I have lost quite a large amount from my super although it is clawing its way back and the market has been quite strong recently. I have been able to adapt but I have sympathy for those who are struggling financially. I do not however have sympathy for those who are whinging because they temporarily can't go fishing or bent out of shape because they cant get a haircut.

Pretty sure that is one of the inner walls.

The problem with conspiracy "theories" are that they tend to find small anomalies and build a story around them without feeling the need to address the inconsistencies created. I am not a materials specialist, engineer or a physicist but when I run this idea through my BS filter I cant get past the sheer number of eyewitnesses who believe they saw the aircraft collide with the buildings. I also find it difficult to contemplate the number of people who would need to have been coordinated in order to make this happen. People are happy to suspicious of an aeroplane shaped hole caused by an aeroplane because they don't think that could not happen but they are happy to entertain the notion that there was some kind of controlled demolition that made that hole and brought down those buildings. This introduces many more questions doesn't it? My question to those who do not believe aircraft struck these buildings then what is their explanation for the eyewitness accounts? What alternative scenarios do they offer?

To suggest that this event somehow didn't happen as reported because the damage does not seem to tally with what we imagine it should be is a bit nutty in my opinion. You cant just say it doesn't look right and then ignore all the other evidence. We know there were tens of thousands of people on the street witnessed and filmed this event as well as people looking out of there apartment windows. The idea of doctored footage must take into consideration that the second impact was broadcast live from news helicopters. These days anyone can mess around with photoshop (although live footage would be a challenge). Twenty years ago this technology was no where near as powerful as today. In post #12 one of our forum members reports seeing the second impact. Either he is trying to mislead us or perhaps he is on the payroll or maybe perhaps he and many thousands of other people did see this happen live. Below is a collection of clips from multiple observers and from multiple angles as well from news helicopters.

How many people would have to be in on this? How many New york residents would have witnessed this event? Where are the literally thousands of people on the street that morning who surely would have come forward by now reporting the absence of aircraft? How many airtrafic controllers, how many baggage handlers refuellers? how many passengers at the airport observing these aircraft departing?

I recall reading a story that I am sure is apocryphal. An airline was progressively upgrading it's airliners with an autoland system. The pilots notes said "Autoland - aircraft landed heavily and to the left of centre line" Engineers notes "this aircraft is not fitted with autoland"

What do you mean by "using it over a wifi network"? The only time you would use wifi is for the initial download of the app. This you would presumably do from your home wifi network.

Bugs me? No amuses me yes. Also I am always open to be swayed by a persuasive and factual argument. Let me assure you that as I have constantly said I acknowledge your right to not download it and it should not be mandatory but this does not mean find your argument persuasive..

Still cant be done in every occupation. I just heard that the meat processing plant outbreak was detected when a worker with a severed thumb was taken to Sunshine hospital where he later started to develop symptoms. If his exposure had been detected before he became symptomatic it would have save many new infections. This is the whole point of the app, we need to identify potential infections before they become symptomatic. The mother of one of my music students tested positive yesterday. Luckily for me I am working online at the moment. More than likely she will have infected some of her family members. In this case knowing before it becomes symptomatic would be advantageous. I find it hard to understand the resistance to the app given what it could possibly do to reduce the spread and reduce the length of this disruption.

There are many jobs where close contact is a part of the job, mine for example. Lifting the lockdown will not mean a return to normality. People need to start to feel confident that the are unlikely to get covid. The first wave of this disease was somewhat contained by the lockdown but there will be a second wave as in other countries. We need to catch and trace new infections early. From time to time citizens of a country are asked to make some kind of contribution, in the past this may have been going to war as an extreme example. Here what we are being asked for has potential benefits for the individual but also for society as a whole. I am aware that some people dont have smart phones or live in an isolated location. Whilst 100% would be good it is still projected to do some good at a lower rate. I want to get back to work and my employer wants me to get back to work but being in a category to puts me at far greater risk I am just not willing to go back unless all steps that can be taken have taken. Lifting lockdown will not solve much once the figures begin to climb again and people begin to self isolate. We have to throw everything we can at this illness otherwise it will be an ongoing hit to the economy until a vaccine is found, although of course the anti vax mob will think that is a government plot. The benefits of tracking down infections before people are symptoms are obvious. The benefits of mass testing are obvious. The privacy issues seem trivial and no practical examples have been presented here. If I had anxieties about this app I would be ditching about 20 other apps.

I certainly wont go back to my job if unless everything possible is done to reduce my risk. In my job (private studio music teacher) work is offered to the teacher who best suits the particular student. Interestingly I have just finished an online teaching session of 10 students in a row although one didn't show, after a phone call I found that the child's mother has just tested positive and is pretty unwell. Would be interesting to know what responsibility an employer has to provide a safe workplace.