Garfly

BTW, both those ATSB final reports, the Mangalore midair (02/20, AO-2020-012) and the Ballina near miss (12/20, AO-2020-062) came out around the same time, earlier this year. So I'm guessing there would have been some cross-fertilisation, which leads me to read between these lines (from the Mangalore report, quoted earlier): "The continuous positional information that ADS‑B provides can highlight a developing situation many minutes before it becomes hazardous – a significant improvement on both point‑in‑time radio traffic advice and ‘see‑and‑avoid’. The ATSB also notes that ADS‑B receivers, suitable for use on aircraft operating under both the instrument or visual flight rules, are currently available within Australia at low cost and can be used in aircraft without any additional regulatory approval or expense." https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2020/aair/ao-2020-012 I reckon what they're hinting at here is that a $1K EC device (with its continuous positional information) might be a darn sight more useful in Airprox avoidance, OCTA, than a full blown $100K TCAS set up (which, for various reasons, failed to avert the close call at Ballina).

I agree. I bought my SkyEcho2 in mid 2020, as soon as they were on sale. Before that I had a small 'Ping' ADSB-IN gadget. So I'm definitely more of a believer than a dreamer in the EC device department. ;- ) But, when it comes to public policy, the reason the government might (in fact, does) choose to subsidise GA ADSB uptake is that 'our sport', whilst a user-pays activity, has the rare capability of bringing down an airliner. And then there'd be hell to pay. In fact, it came to within a bee's dick of just that in Nov. 2020 near Ballina. https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2020/aair/ao-2020-062 Anyway, the feds have at their disposal, both carrot and stick levers and, right now, they're giving the former a bit of a pull. My suggestion earlier in this thread was just that their plan might have worked better if the carrot had been a wee bit bigger, and a bit sooner, but, in any case, I'm not holding my breath for that, and I'm not hanging out for a subsidy. This piece in Australian Flying a year ago puts it in a nutshell: "The results of CASA's VFR equipment survey has provided the regulator with a view of GA that they never previously had ... But one thing that has raised some eyebrows is the lack of ADS-B use in VFR aircraft. CASA mandated the system for IFR, but has consistently maintained an encouragement policy only for visual flight, culminating in the development of a non-TSO standard for VFR, known as conspicuity devices. But the data shows that around 57% of GA aircraft and a whopping 83% of sport aircraft have declined the invitation to fit any type of ADS-B. ... what it means is that there are a lot of aircraft getting around that the ADS-B system is blind to, which dilutes the efficiency of the technology. It is hard to believe that, after seeing these figures, the word "mandate" has not been uttered between the walls of Aviation House. https://www.australianflying.com.au/the-last-minute-hitch/the-last-minute-hitch-1-october-2021

Sounds like an interesting app. Definitely worth a look. But you'd want to have a good look at all the features of the local EFBs first, with their NAIPS integration, their automatic updates of all charts and databases etc. and even their tight integration of the uAvionix ADSB devices, before you decided on what is and isn't a necessary feature for your own operation.

Yes, you would show up on anyone's OzRWYs (Premium) - or other EFB - as long as the iPad/tablet is being fed by an ADSB-IN device, such as the Uavionix PING ( IN-Only, $400) or another SkyEcho2 (IN and OUT, $1200, less the subsidy.) See some info here: https://www.ozrunways.com/store/adsb/ But you should show up, also, on the installed cockpit traffic displays of most commercial aircraft, all of which have ADSB-IN (and OUT). And, of course, they, in turn would show up on your iPad/tablet by way of the IN function of your SkyEcho2. There are other traffic awareness systems in use - including OzRWYS and AVPlan's own cell tower based ones, and the offerings of the, very good, AvTraffic app. which, by the way, incorporates FLARM. But all these suffer from time delays in the cell tower system (latency) and other issues. They are not in the same league as the true aircraft to aircraft communication offered by ADSB. See here: https://avtraffic.com/

Yeah, true. That was only me musing on what could've (should've?) been.

True enough, but the SE2 weighs 160 grams and would cost $0 under the full subsidy plan. ($500 under present arrangements). And you make a good case for having one even in low (not 'no') traffic areas which just adds to the case the ATSB makes.

Yeah, it might be complicated to implement but still, it really is a shame that midair tragedies keep happening when low cost tech is available to help avert them. Of course, we know nothing of the whys and wherefores of this latest accident but in regard to the terrible Mangalore midair of 2020, this was in the final ATSB report: "The ATSB also strongly encourages the fitment of ADS‑B transmitting, receiving and display devices as they significantly assist the identification and avoidance of conflicting traffic. The continuous positional information that ADS‑B provides can highlight a developing situation many minutes before it becomes hazardous – a significant improvement on both point‑in‑time radio traffic advice and ‘see‑and‑avoid’. The ATSB also notes that ADS‑B receivers, suitable for use on aircraft operating under both the instrument or visual flight rules, are currently available within Australia at low cost and can be used in aircraft without any additional regulatory approval or expense." https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2020/aair/ao-2020-012

Maybe it would have been a good idea for CASA to provide SkyEcho2s (or similar) free-of-charge to all aircraft operators without ADSB (while continuing to subsidise certified models) and then proceed to make ADSB IN/OUT (of some kind) compulsory for all flying machines (as it is, pretty much, in the US already).

On that, we're in furious agreement, Don! ;- )

Another cartoon characterisation of Gaddafi paints him as no more than a preening fool, a brutal dictator and serial violator of basic human rights. But if one's only criterion for anointing heroes is their status as enemy to one's enemy ... well, one risks waking up with fleas. Speaking of dogs, yes, Putin's victims - on all sides - do need to be remembered, and way beyond Remembrance Day. How about a Stop-Repeating-the-Need-for-Remembrance-Days Day; a more sincere way to honour the victims. And there's no greater insult to Ukrainian people today, living or dead, than to figure them as ants, collaterally crushed in a (real) battle between elephants. They have their own identity and historical interests, far predating the birth of "The West" (whether seen as Punch or as Judy in your narrative of choice). BTW, nobody on here is arguing that the West has clean hands in any of the "big game" tragedies of our era. Quite the opposite. It just comes down to how complicated a world-view we're willing to work with. I think it was Russia's Tolstoy, who said that melodrama is about the struggle between good and evil; Drama is about the struggle between good and good. (Or, to put it another way, between evil and evil.) The enemy of our enemy is likely an ***hole, too.

It's generally accepted that driving is, overall, safer than recreational flying. Even proper stats seem to back that up. But the comparison discussed here is specifically about age-related alertness - when "staying aware", avoiding "stupid things" and maintaining "concentration" are crucial. But if you're barrelling down the highway, any random 3 secs of eyes/mind off the job will very likely end in instant disaster. Flying is not quite as perilous as that, moment to moment, at least.

Oops, sorry for double posting. Please remove if possible.

A CTLS LOC in the French Alps. There's a new home-made Air Crash Investigation channel for GA that's turning out some interesting stuff. Especially when paired with the official reports that it links to - in this case, from the BEA (in English). BEA2021-0294.en.pdf Maybe this should have its own thread but it fits very well into the discussion here.

By the way, Don - and anyone else with an affection for the best of Russia - this is an amazing full length feature film from 20 years ago; a kind of dream/fantasy which looks back over Russia's complicated history with Europe. Anyone willing to give it a go (preferably on a big screen) and to hang in there with the subtitles, will be well rewarded, I reckon. And from a filmmaking angle The Russian Ark is legendary, in that the whole thing is done in one take. Incredible! (The making-of story is almost as fascinating as the film itself.) For more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ark

But that Punch and Judy (West on Russia) narrative doesn't wash from the viewpoint of Russia's neighbours and ex-vassal states who want to be left alone to be themselves. Ask Georgia and Kazakhstan for starters. I've spent time with friends and colleagues in Estonia, Lithuania and Poland as well as having dear friends in Moscow. I've also known folks among the Russian minority in Narva on Estonia's eastern border with Russia. I think I get all their perspectives. Basically, Russian's are resentful and furious at their neighbours for not wanting to be part of the glorious empire anymore. A bit like the way the British were furious with the Indian mutineers. "You really want to risk losing this clearly superior culture we've bestowed on you!?" Anyway, for self-absorbed / self-critical Westerners (and I admit I'm one) to insist that this is mostly all about US and THEM is an insult to the people who've lived before under the Russian empire and are now in danger of being reabsorbed. The notion that Russia has a right and a reason to fear the West equivalent to its neighbours' right and reason to fear Russia, is ludicrous and disingenuous. Bob Dylan did have it right but his message was universal: To hate them and fear them To run and to hide And accept it all bravely With God on our side

See Onetrack's booklet link a few posts up.

If the Republicans win the House tomorrow and Trump the White House in '24 there's a good chance that Americans will learn to love Russia, after all (as long as Vlad's still there). Anyway, we're not the only ones inspired by Dylan's message, Don: ‘I have a message for Putin’: Ukrainian artist covers Bob Dylan’s ‘Masters of War’ at SXSW The song was originally written by Dylan to protest the looming Cold War, and includes the lyrics: ‘And I hope that you die/ And your death will come soon... And I’ll stand over your grave/ ‘Til I’m sure that you’re dead’... Oleksandra Zaritska, known as Sasha, was the only member of electronic-folk band Kazka able to attend their 2022 showcase. Her bandmates were obliged to stay in Ukraine to defend their country amid the ongoing invasion by Russia, or volunteer to help their fellow citizens. She reportedly enlisted a group of local musicians as her support band, including Charlie Sexton – Bob Dylan’s longtime guitarist – who joined her for a dramatic closing performance. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/kazka-sasha-sxsw-bob-dylan-ukraine-b2040251.html#comments-area

Like you, Don, I have a soft spot for Russia, but maybe a different one, more like the Russia of this vlogger, Vlad Vexler.

Apart from the techno/historical insights, what strikes me about this booklet is the elegance of the language they used back then.

However heedless he is to cost?

So, Vladimir Vladimirovich has been working to a rational plan, after all. ;- )

Okay, let's drop your "30 degree bank" issue then. Maybe Turbo's response to that was on the money. Nobody disagrees on the NOT having a normal horizon thing but you can have a normal horizon in a canyon and in a mega-city and still be in trouble (with bank angle and minimum radius).

Nev, I'd have guessed you'd have "liked" rather than "cautioned" that video because, as I saw it, it goes right to your "30 degree bank angle" point. Maybe I've misunderstood you. Anyway, in the video, Miller discusses that 'Cory Liddell' turn-radius accident in New York City (04:57) thus: "They had plenty of altitude, they could have rolled into a more aggressive bank and allowed the horizontal component of lift to pull the airplane away from the building ... the only thing I can think is that perhaps they were not comfortable with that type of manoeuvre" So the message is: being able (mentally and otherwise) to operate "on the edge" when needed is a life preserving skill. There are times when excessive timidity is what needs to be cautioned.

It's on the edge because it's an emergency manoeuvre. Jason Miller is suggesting that it's a skill all pilots should have in their tool-kit. The big difference with the V-shaped valley (as he demonstrates) is that you don't have room beneath you so you can't reduce the load factor by descending into the turn so you're limited to a level turn which means to a shallow bank angle. (Which is where we came in, right?)

And in this new Jason Miller video, the same issue is addressed but he also discusses the unloaded-wing factor in a descending turn which allows for a higher bank angle (in a canyon when you have enough air beneath you).