Bubbleboy

Great topic! I know the under the hood IFR I did with my PPL license scared the hell out of me! I was up over the Central Coast with the hood on and my instructor did the usual manipulation of the controls and I had to get out of it. I did manage but I swore I was sitting on a 45 degree angle yet the plane was in straight and level flight. It is the most un-natural feeling I have ever experienced and I will always remember it. Scotty

Pud...you have hit the nail on the head. Being up there is not a fashion statement! Its just the fact you are up there is amazing and that is affordable! Scotty

Thanks Pud! Likey likey! :thumb_up:

Heon...your "rearly?" not bursting my bubble. Im glad there are plastics out there. Maybe one day in my senior years I can afford one. But for now, im loving "grass roots" building and flying and teaching my 11 year old Son what its all about so he can continue it. I only wish more information was out there at events like Natfly to get more folk going along their way with it because its the most affordable way to get flying and the best fun you will have with ya clothes on! Scotty

Tell us more about the Aero-max Pud. I cant find anything on the web about it. Scotty

Heon....think outside ya plastic mate! I respect that there are a ton of people in their later years with money to burn right now and good on ya for taking it off them with a plastic fantastic. For RAA to continue on after the next few decades, there needs to be something for the younger folk with less money "NOW" to burn and I will put my left nut on it that my Pietenpol, yes its a four stroke, will come in well under $40 000! Scotty

Hi Jake....a forum on wiring and all things electrical next Natfly would be great! Things like terminals and bus bars etc. Natfly needs more things like this. I would love to see one on installing instruments and how to connect the pitot and static lines etc. Scotty

Hi Sue...yes I agree. It needs to be organised now! As has been proven its a big event and leaving it till the last minute doesnt work. There are a number of RAA members who over the last week have put their hands up to volunteer to help organise. We need to be forming a committee now to harness these offers. After the AGM is too late. Why does it need to be a Board member that runs it? Havent they got enough on their plate with out this monumental task? A committee that reports back progress to some one on the board would be appropriate. Scotty

Hi Carol...I have been vocal here with ways I think we could improve on the great event we already have. Im a great believer in looking forward and planning for the future. Getting kids "bitten by the bug"so to speak is a priority RAA needs to look at. These kids will be the future of our organisation. In saying this I would like to volunteer to help organise the childrens program. I spent 15 minutes on the web and emailed a business and have a response back stating they would be prepared to travel to Temora on the Friday and Saturday next year to set up a jumping castle. I am awaiting their quote. They have also given me the details of another business who has mobile kids entertainment and also has face painting and tattoos. I found a business who sells balsa throw gliders that can be printed with what ever advertising you like. I was thinking "RAA & Natfly" advertising and holding a short balsa glider building session followed by a "see whos fly's the furtherest" competition with a prize at the end. I cant elaborate on the prize as I havent approached the business involved to see if they would be supportive as yet. I would plan on having two full days of kids entertainment. I can organise all this and would just need a section at the airport to run a kids entertainment place. The grass patch in front of the cabins would be ideal. This year it was mostly empty except for a few campers cars. Its central to the camping area, away from majority of traffic, off the active area for planes. I also have a few more ideas but im putting my offer on the table! I will need a little support from someone local to arrange a little marquee or the like for some shade. Let me know if you accept my offer Scotty

Carol...first of all thank you for taking the time to participate on this subject. I for one appreciate what went in to Natfly and its very clear to see now that there has been far to few people left with this big task. What struck me the most in your reply above was the comment "do you want to pay $40 entry fee to get in to Natfly?". Im going to be honest here, yes I am prepared to pay $50 entry in to Natfly plus the $45 it cost me to camp there for 3 nights! My wife does Triathlons and its not uncommon for her to have to pay between $30 and $120 to register! She gets a fancy shirt for that price and thats it! What are we thinking trying to hold an event like this with no charges? I know Temora prides itself on no landing fees etc. We live in a user pays society and we get what we pay for. This is ludicrous! Where else could we go for 3 nights and pay $45 with the facilities there? I just did a quick add up of what it cost me and my 11 year old Son to attend. Driving from Tamworth and camping 3 nights. $180 fuel, $45 to camp, $150 food, Total of $375. It would cost me that much to take him to the Sydney Easter Show for the day! Would I complain having to pay another $50 for entry in to Natfly, not on your life! In fact while standing at the RAA site a chap was asking what the costs were to attend a particular forum. We expect to pay nowadays. Was it last year the Aero club had a BBQ dinner on the Friday night? This year we went for a drive up the street on Friday to get some dinner. All the pub bistros were closed. Pizza shop was closed, Chinese was closed. We ended up getting greasey chips from a takeaway joint. We ate at the RSL Thursday night. I realise that Friday is Easter Friday so the Aero club BBQ would have been great for us at least. Considering last year it sold out speaks for itself, plus a good earner for the club. Do the Aero club members not want to volunteer some of their time in return for fund raising for their club? The second comment that Rotary and the like didnt bother responding to the food tender just blows me away! Was there another event on in Temora that they were at? The food stalls that were there did a great trade from what I saw. Some running out of food! Are there no Schools, Rural fire Service, St Johns, Lion's, Netball clubs, Pony Club, I saw the soccer club there, or any other community organisations that could have made a tidy sum from this weekend? The food that was available was fine. Great to see one stall selling fresh fruit and sangers. Would the local Chinese restaurant not be interested in setting up a stall there? I saw wood fired pizza there. At the end of the day I would like to see the local community receive any income out of it. If they do not want to tender for the food stalls then there are plenty of other commercial vans around the country that make their living out of covering events like this. I wouldnt want to see that but if that is what is needed, we should tender further out than Temora. Are there local Vineyards who would set up a stall? I know Wayne Mathews personally and the fact he was a last minute ring in. Your right, what he had to say was gold! Hence the reason his presentation needs to be at a time where most people can access it. Maybe half a day Friday and half a day Saturday. What Wayne presented was nothing short of what we are all about. Keeping everything running right and staying safe. I learnt so much in the half day I attended. I fully understand the costs involved for the Museum to fly an aircraft or two. Maybe with out the clash with ANZAC next year and if an entry fee is implemented, something could be done. Is there any reason it couldnt be one of their flying weekends? Imagine the exposure RAA would get then! Carol please do not take this as a personal attack in what you have done, I saw you working your butt off, and it was nice to see you let your hair down at the Bush poets night, and its clear to see now that if we want anything different to what we just had, we as the users need to pay! Thank you again for giving us your insight. Scotty

Heon...your missing the point. The average person in their 30's and 40's doesnt have $70000 plus to spend on a plane. What they can manage is $300 here and there to buy some plans and some wood maybe, and start building. While doing this they will likely attend Natfly and look over all the other planes on display and buy an instrument from one of the vendors. Their kids will annoy the hell out of them and want to help sand that bit of spruce and help mix the glue to make a rib. Burbs mentioned there is a lack of initiative in the RAA to get the younger generation involved which is so true. As much as I admired the Petrel flying at Natfly, at this point in time its way out of my generations budget. It can still be a form of Rec flying but if we want this Rec flying thing to grow, affordability is an important issue. My 0.02 worth. Scotty

Heon...come look in my garage. There is a beautiful wood and rag plane taking shape and when its flying you shall see it at Natfly. I will much rather have my finished $25000 rag and wood to fly and I bet will get more people pouring over it than your plastic flying boat. Times do change but not always for the better mate! This IS Rec flying if you havent forgotten. Scotty

kaz....I believe Col pay's Spitty is the one at Temora. Scotty

DD I really think we would be hard pressed to find a better facility than what Temora offers. What areas were you thinking of to have it? I drove 8 hours to get there so if anyone really wants to be a part of the atmosphere, they will make the effort. The social side of it was great fun. It needs to be on a public holiday weekend to allow for traveling time. Which weekend is your preference? As far as not having it at Easter time, yes, it was cold at night but beautiful days. I for one wouldnt want to be camping at Temora, or any other place, in the heat of summer or the cold of winter. If Temora town itself cant provide entertainment for the rest of the family, we need to create it at the airport. We are never going to please everyone when we are a national organisation. Without counting everyone I believe there were far more than 100 aircraft there. With running a small business I know you need to spend money to make it! Businesses can write it all off as advertising and the ones that were there looked like they were doing a good trade. I know I purchased gear because I could see and touch it! May be im out of line but I cant see any point in rehashing "where it should be" and "what time of year it should be" and so on. Temora airfield is a great facility and we have our roots laid. We just need to better organise some things and it will be an even better weekend away! See you at Temora Easter 2012! Scotty

Hi Dave...yes your on the right track for sure. I was having lunch with my good wife and chatting about this aspect of it. She is a child Psych so has a bit to do with kids and entertainment. The kids were really left out I felt this year. She suggested jumping castles for the little ones and face painting in plane themes etc. My wife is not into the plane scene at all so she has never chosen to be a part of it as its painful for her. She said if it was more family friendly she would consider coming down and being a part of it. I know you cant please or provide for everyone so you will only end up being disillusioned if you do. You know the saying"Cant please everyone all the time". Your suggestion of a flight sim is fantastic and way over and above what I was thinking. You look at what the EAA does with kids and other organisations in the USA. With out trying to offend anyone here but if you stopped and had a look at the average age of the NATFLY attendees, it was quite obvious that in say 20 years we are going to have a shortage of members! It would be fantastic to harness the knowledge and life experiences of these mature members and pass this on to the younger generation before its too late. Im knocking on the 40's door and love nothing more than listening to flying stories from years passed. Last year a good friend who is a member on this forum took Jack who was 10 at that time up for a half hour flight in his Jabiru. To this day Jack still talks about it and it has cemented his love of flying. If I had a dollar for every time he has told someone he flew a Jabiru, I would be able to afford a new Carbon Cub! Am I correct in saying next year is the third year that NATFLY has been allocated to Temora and if it is to remain there, which I believe it should as it is a fantastic facility, something needs to be pulled out of the hat. Reflecting on the weekend since coming home it is even more obvious that organisations were lacking at the trade stalls. I dont recall seeing a SAAA stall this year. RAA was there but poorly represented even compared to last year with the all the merchandise they had. These organisations are where we will grow from and I cant believe there wasnt a site there from SAAA. I feel we should be pushing the more affordable side of flying out there like the Drifters and Thrusters. Once folk are hooked on that they will progress to the plastic fantastic as money allows. What I saw on display there is not in the young family man/woman reach. A fabulous root system is there with the Temora facility, we just need to grow it now. Scotty

Don...your suggestion for things for the kids to do is a great one! They have done the same with the ladies program. I know my 11 year old Son would think it was fantastic if he had something to attend specially for him. Things like a guided tour of the museum and a session on plane anatomy and flight controls and maybe the right way to wash a plane comes to mind. Nothing too in depth as they lose their concentration too quickly. Even one session a day would break it up for them. On the Friday I spent all day at the covering forum which was too much for him. He was a bit disconcerted by the end of that day having to entertain himself all day. I know he was hoping and praying the museum was going to drag a plane out and put on a little display. I know in this day and age there need to be working with kids considerations and probably a minimum age of 8 or something as you dont want it as a child care session! Maybe something to think about for next year. Scotty :thumb_up:

Hi Don...to answer your request for a synopsis on Keith Rules presentataion I will put forward what I can recall. Please correct me anyone who heard otherwise or add what I forgot. I have no experience with the Jabaru what so ever but have heard both sides of the story as far as their reliability. Keith said: Jabiru have recently changed the hydraulic lifter system so the top end is now lubricated through hollow pushrods which has eliminated the need for the oil feed tube they always had. Apparently this has solved the problem of sticking valves apparently. The push rods have increased in thickness and the end ball sections are larger which has stopped the rods from sticking in the lifters causing problems. Apparently the old lifters were from a Holden engine. Shell has advised that the usual oil (sorry cant recall) should not be used anymore as due to the small amount of oil in the Jab engine, it becomes contaminated with lead very quickly when using Avgas. Keith suggested that the Jab prop is not so great and better results can be achieved using a different brand of prop which I dont recall he mentioned. He spoke of the new coil which is off a Honda lawn mower. He also spoke about the replacement of the bolts which has just been advised and I believe has to be done within 12 months. Depending on how many hours your engine has done determines if just the nuts need replacing or the whole bolt assembly. Apparently the whole bolt assembly replacement requires a complete strip of the engine. He discussed the 3 different cranks available. Also any new engine will have all the modifications done now as one would expect. There is an electronic ignition system being looked into. The final question was what he thought of the water cooled heads available for the Jab and he stated not to buy any just yet. Read in to that what you want I guess. He stated a water cooled system would be better for the engine in the long run by keeping constant temps. There were other things spoken about as well and I found Keith's presentation fantastic. I wish I knew what he had forgotten over his career! What he reinforced is that you NEED to stick to the servicing schedule at all times to improve your chances of a reliable engine. Scotty:coffee:

One went something like "Have you ever asked a current board member to resign or face legal action". Someone correct me if im wrong. Scotty

Hi David...yes please call in if your in Tamworth. You have my details. Great to catch up with a few members! Scotty

Ian...sounds good! Jack gave Lachlan his email address and keeps checking to see if hes sent one...lol. When you get it up and running let me know and I will sign Jack up. Scotty

Ian...am I allowed to use the words Slarti, threatened, doodle and exposing in the same sentence? I dont want to break the secrecy and confidentiality code of Camp David. Scotty

I drove down Thursday and left Sunday. I attended last year and there were definitely less people and exhibitors this year. The weather on Thursday and Friday may have contributed to this along with the recent spate of natural disasters around the country. Carol was continually on the move trying to ensure things were running smooth. The lady caretaker (cant recall her name) worked her butt off from what I saw. She spent all day booking campers in then I saw her cleaning the toilet block late at night. This year I felt the shower blocks were in a some what unclean state most times I attended. With this size event, regular cleaners need to be checking on these through out the day. Glad the Garbo's didnt empty bins in the early hours like they did last year. I was disappointed with the food stalls available. I felt last years setup was better and the lines flowed a lot quicker even with more people attending. Had we had the same numbers as last year, I feel this area would have been a disaster! It was good to see the prices were reasonable. I thought the forums in the hangar's were great for my personal situation. I would have loved Wayne Mathews presentation to have been on the Friday as I missed half the day. Most people didnt get there till late Thursday or Friday. His presentation was great and could have benefited a lot more people. The fabric covering session was great! Keith Rules presentation was very informing. Learnt a hell of a lot. I cant understand why one or two of the museum aircraft couldnt have been displayed on one day during the lunch display session. Its a massive draw card to the town and all would have appreciated a quick beat up down the runway. With the amount of visitors I saw going in to the museum, im sure the cost of doing it would have been covered. Is this something that can be organised next year maybe? I cant help thinking that the whole RAA theme is being lost to these some what expensive composite aircraft which are out of a lot of peoples price range. I would love to see an attempt be made to get more rag and tube type planes and make an effort to get businesses there displaying aircraft the average person could afford. The Carbon Cub as nice as it looked was ridiculously priced at around $225 000. That's not recreational flying for the average person! To sum it up im glad I went and will go again. Im not criticising anyone's efforts that have gone in to the event, just thinking of ways to make it even better! Scotty

Hhhmmmm.... NZ will be a better option then. :thumb_down: OME...he is no competition I can assure you of that. Scotty

OME...is that the Aussie Aircraft Spruce & Specialty rep? Scotty

I have been looking at this for the Pietenpol when I get to the covering stage. Scotty