rick-p

Tell that to those on board when one of the engines stop, relevancy doesn't then come into it! Sorry I just couldn't resist that.

It's funny that you should say that dazza because that's exactly what I was told quite some time ago by a mainstream player at Jabiru, I won't give you his name but will say that he said to me that he would not swap his solid lifter motor for the hydraulic motor under any circumstances. I think my motor is one of the last 5 solid lifter 2200 motor's built. Also it was installed in my Lambada when the Lambada was new with already 105 hrs on it as they couldn't get a motor overseas for it so they took the motor out of a flying school Jab, I think in Ireland (as the story goes). My motor never had an oil cooler on it when I purchased it but now it has which did help resolve a few earlier issues I had with oil pressure. My temps and pressures are always good but I was wondering if some of this was due to the fact that maximm rev's attainable on my engine on take off and climb out is 27oo rpm. I could cruise all day if I want at 215o rpm giving me a comfortable 93knts. Any comments or ideas, Nev? Regards, Rick-p

Obviously you need to read something properly before you make comment. I never said that the failure rates were the same or even that Rotax 912's failed more often than Jabiru motors. I'm looking for and comparing statistics from financial costs to actual loss of life or injury. A lot in these threads seem to harp on with if an engine fails we are all going to die attitude, yes it may be a little disconcerting when the engine stops which it will at some stage and if you think otherwise you are kidding yourself. Be prepared and hope that it happens at a point in your flight where you have considered and planned for what if the fan stops turning. It get up my nose when people who don't even fly an aircraft installed with a Jabiru motor start making comment that is adverse and biased as they haven't paid for the right to do so. If the Jabiru owners wish to complain they have paid for the right to do so. It may be appropriate or even a useful tool in dealing with the Jab motor problems if there was an actual Jabiru owners group (incorporated association) where problems could be logged and these raised by appointed spokeperson/s to liaise with the factory etc. The difficulty is getting people with a direct financial interest and otherwise to come together to do this. This I know through my attempts a few years ago to get the C of A for SkyFox when the factory closed down. I had a lot of advise bet no assistance and it cost me a few thousand dollars and many hours of time but without help the cause was doomed to failure from the begining. The only ones at the time really willing to help was CASA. Maybe people with an interest in these motors will nowbe prepared to take it to the next level. Rick-p

Any and all engines will fail, some sooner than others whilst some for lesser reasons than others. I always ask my self not if the engine fails but when is it going to fail because with my luck it will regardless of what type or make engine it is. I had em all and up to 3 in one day and I wouldn't trust any of them and that's why I fly as best I can in any given position where I can get it back to mother earth without killing myself and a few others on the ground. They all break! An interesting observation that I have made over the years is that when Rotax break, possibly because of the high rev's they are doing, they really do stop suddenly and spectacularly! If you look at the incidents involving all the motors used by RAA aircraft and whether the engine completely died or just lost power you might be suprised at the end result. It's like comparing the old Gypsy Major 1 or Mk 10 motor and a Perkins (truck motor) with a Lycom. they are like chalk and cheese the first two could be just about falling apart and still get you there whilst the latter would just shit itself. This comparison in my view could be made as between the Rotax motor (all models) and the Jabiru motor as on my recollection on the reading of probably all the incident reports since the time of the 1600 Jab motor and the then bomb proof 912 (80 hp UL) most Jab motor incidents involved a loss of power but not a complete engine failure whilst the 912's when troubled stopped completely and suddenly. "another Jab bites the dust" only after the pilot had landed safely and turned off the motor did it stop. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Jab is more reliable than 912's what I'm saying is that when they do play up in the majority of cases they don't bite you as hard and at least give you a little time to act. I am going to see if I can acquire all the relevant info over the past 10 years as to failures and fatalities, injuries etc and if nothing else, prove the point that not only is one more reliable than the other but also which is the most deadliest ie what motor has killed the most. Rick-p PS You don't hear anything of the 1600 Jab motors anymore but I understand that there are still a truck load still remaining in service and not having any problems or very rarely. Also it would be interesting to know how many 912's in service in Australia and how many Jabiru motors!

Great stuff, it's amazing what you can do without an engine to hinder your progress!

Great, it's good and clear no distortion. I await the vid taken from outside the aircraft.

OMG!

I really can't follow all the comments in this post as all these temps etc you keep referring to on my Jab 2200 don't get anywhere near them and I haven't adjusted or added anything and this is also the case for all the Jab motors I know that the guys are running in the Philippines. No real problems so what is really going on. I know personally abouyt 25 people running Jab motors who have had nothing more than very minor problems not even worth mentioing. I would dearly like to know the true spec's for Jab motor failures and major problems both in engine model and serial numbers and dates of the incidents etc. There probably is a problem but what is the cause of the problem maybe it's operator related, who knows, but until someone really does come up with the correct answer I wish people would put up or shut up. If you don't like the product don't knock it, just don't buy it and let us who really don't care whether it kills us or not use it in peace until it either wears out or breaks and then we who paid for it can then bag it. It would be really interesting to see the specs on what aircraft the Jab motors have failed in maybe it is an induction cooling problem as was the case for all the 912 failures when they were first installed in Jabiru aircraft, maybe I'm wrong but just about all of them got cooked. Rick-p

Not bad thanks Nev. Still trying to make up my mind if I really want to continue having to wake up every morning and head off to solve other peoples problems or just get out of it all and work solely on taking some time out for myself and family which would include some serious flying in other countries. I think that the time has come to relax and enjoy what's ahead for all of us eventually. Take care and thanks for asking. Rick

Snow White had a similar problem, she usually woke up feeling grumpy!

The blade pitch looks wrong to me, maybe it's just my eyes but it appears as if something isn't right or is broken!

He might have been like Lloyd Bridges in Flying High, he just chose a bad day to stop sniffing glue!

I wouldn't think any more problems than any other man made thing that has for the most part air between it's wheels and mother Earth! Rick-p

Hi Bill, You have a very valid point, but surely someone new of their intentions! Anyway I only hope that their very sad loss hammers home to the aviation community that none of us are bullet proof just some of us have enough common sense to wear a bullet proof vest by avoiding those situations where we are not at least 99% certain as to what the outcome of our actions will be. In other words we don't take unecessary risks. Rick-p

Let me ask a question, would any of you let a mate drive a car if he was drunk? I would hope that each and every one of you would say no that they would take his keys. In my book, if it's true, that last light was pending on take off then why the hell didn't someone, at least in authority, step up to the mark and take responsibility. Most people have a rather large dislike for police particularly traffic police but in there own way they have over time saved thousands of lives by just doing their job and this incident only goes to show that maybe we do need to be policed a little more. It great having all the freedom to enjoy but eventually the way things are going there may be only a few left to enjoy it if we as a community don't collectively do something about it. If you see something that's not right step in an act don't just stand there and give lip service to the problem. Andy in his own outspoken way pretty well hits the nail on the head. We need to kill the current culture of she will be right mate it won't happen to me and not kill ourselves. Rick-p

Gob smacked that's all I can say! It's the ones we leave behind that are the victims and it's them I feel so very sad for because they can remember the pain of it all, over and over again. Condolences to the family and friends.

Have another look at the video and pay particular attention to the main rotor blades angle! I'll say no more.

Good grief rather than bag the pilot how about maybe it was a mechanical failure. Remember there are more moving parts on one of those things than Paris Hiltons personal accessories. Those things only fly because they are so ugly the earth repels them!

OMG what's that thing sticking out of the back of your head dear?

The fire crews could have had a marshmellow roast while they were waiting, even smoked a couple of kippers!

Excellent photgraphy in both vid's, actually!

Hopefully, that's why we have insurance for the one's we walk away from! I had a an Auster, it was in VG condition, had had it for about 13 yrs when it suffered extensive damage, on the ground, in a severe storm. I did have insurance on it for the first few years but thought I was smart and didn't continue with it. I may have saved the cost of the aircraft over the years by not continuing with the insurance but that doesn't make the heart break any easier when something like this happens and you don't have it covered. It was a very sad sight on attending the strip the morning after the storm, couldn't do it the night before because all the public roads around the property were closed due to trees and power down and over the road, also local flooding so couldn't traverse the paddocks to go to the strip. We had about 8 inches of rain in an hour or so. It was just a freak storm and also the plane was never left outside overnight but on this one occasion, for reasons I won't go into, it was and bingo it copped it big time. It went completely over, wing tip over wing tip, pulling steel star picket posts out of the ground, breaking a wing strut in the process and dragging a 1000 litre fuel tank behind it. I can assure you it was well and trully tied down, in fact probably too well. It's gone now but it's memory still lives on and so when I see the end result of an incident like the one, in this thread, all the memories come flooding back and I think poor owner, now the hard yards begin. Rick-p

Ok a drummer joke! What do you call a person who hangs around with a band? No not a groupie, a drummer of course. That was a joke told to Ringo Star by a Royal at Royal Gala Concert when the boys were at their best, Ringo thought it was funny but not Paul evidently, but alas poor Ringo wasn't the sharpest knife in the draw.

Thanks Frank. It was just that his face is quite familiar, maybe I met him up North at some stage when I was involved in refrigeration. We used to do a lot of commissioning of new systems in new larger buildings and quite often at the same time had the telephone guys in doing their thing. If you don't ask you will never know and always keep wondering! Thanks again.

No the passenger, but I have found out since that it is who I thought it was and it is always makes it a little harder when it's someone that you have known!