Winging it Down the Castlereagh

[old man emu]

Just a heads-up but also seeking some advice.

 

Arthur Butler Aviation Museum Inc. is planning to hold its inaugural Winging it Down the Castlereagh event on Saturday 15th April 2023 with a recovery breakfast to send people off on Sunday 16th.

 

Participants will be competing for the Butler Air Transport Co Trophy. The proposed event is basically an On Track - On Time event. It's the pilot/navigators against themself. The idea is that the participants will fly a sort of square route starting at Tooraweenah and passing over Gilgandra and Coonamble along the Castlereagh River, NSW to Walgett then crossing to Pilliga to Baradine, then IFR (I Follow Railways) to Coonabarabran and back to Tooraweenah. I estimate the circuit would take just on 3 hours at 90 kts, still air, not counting climbing to cruise altitude. The winner would be the pilot whose ATA at Tooraweenah was closest to their pre-departure ETA. Along the way, crews would be required to locate significant landmarks and record them, and their passing over the several aerodrome, with a time stamped photo.

 

As I am in the planning stages I'd appreciate some help setting up the event. Firstly, all timing will begin from a standing start at the drop of a steward's flag. But what is the safest way to record ATA? I was thinking of marking a landing zone on the runway and having several stewards there to record the time that an aircraft touched down.

 

I know that there could be anything from a puddle-jumper to a light twin having a go, so would it be an idea to group aircraft by stated still air cruise speed, so that the slowest get off first and the speedster leave last?

 

The idea would be for crews to arrive by 10:00am for a briefing, then start sending them off about 10:30 so that they would be back by mid-afternoon to stand around and talk male bovine technical talk. 

 

For Saturday night, would people like to gather at the Local, or have an outdoor gathering on the airport?  Some accommodation is available in Tooraweenah for the early birds who book it, otherwise it's under the wing.

 

More information as well as The Rules and Entry forms will be on our website ( as soon as someone close to me allocates some time to create it). In the meantime, if you have some constructive suggestions that would help make this a good, fun event please email me at [email protected]

 

And don't forget to let your mates know this is going to happen.

 

Thanks in advance,

Old Man Emu

[pmccarthy]

I suggest sending the fastest first so there is no danger of slow planes getting rear-ended.

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

I suggest sending the fastest first so there is no danger of slow planes getting rear-ended.

So. Where in the pack will you start?

[Thruster88]

Will the GPS antenna(s) be covered with tin foil before the start and checked if the aircraft returns, sounds like fun😂.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Good onyer OME. Just tell me where and when....  I'll be there if weather permits.

[Bruce Tuncks]

AND I'll be self-sufficient with a tent n stuff.

[old man emu]

On 21/09/2022 at 7:44 PM, Bruce Tuncks said:

Good onyer

Bruce!

 

At this stage - Saturday 14th April 2023, but you are welcome to arrive on the 13th (oops!) 

 

Please bear in mind that I have only been putting this event together for the past few days. I'll be providing more information shortly.

 

I suppose I should set a date for the closure of entries. How about 31st March 2023?

[old man emu]

I need some feedback on this Rule for the Event. The liability of the Organisers needs to be protected. Will RULE 3.3 cause an interested participant to have to give the event a miss?

RULE 3.2

The pilot-in-command nominated on the entry form will be required to produce for the

scrutineers:

(e) Evidence of insurance cover in accordance with the requirements of paragraph 3.3 of these rules

 

RULE 3.3

The evidence of insurance cover as required by Rule 3.2 (e) shall take the following form:

An endorsement note from the aircraft's insurance company which states that its Third

Party and Passenger Liability insurance (in respect of that aircraft):

1.     Has been extended to include the Arthur Butler Trophy Event, and

2.     Has been endorsed to include as the insured the organisers, Arthur Butler Aviation Museum Inc., for their respective rights, interests, and liabilities under that policy, and

3.     The sum assured shall be a be a minimum sum of $5,000,000 for Third Party and

$5,000,000 for Passenger Liability.

4.     The policy must insure the entrant, crew, passengers and those persons representatives and employers against liability arising out of the participation in this event in respect of such persons and the aircraft.

All entrants should contact their own broker or underwriter with whom the aircraft is normally insured to ensure that the requirements of these rules are complied with prior to the commencement of the event.

 

If some part of it causes a problem, which part and why.

 

Thanks

[APenNameAndThatA]

20 hours ago, old man emu said:

I need some feedback on this Rule for the Event. The liability of the Organisers needs to be protected. Will RULE 3.3 cause an interested participant to have to give the event a miss?

RULE 3.2

The pilot-in-command nominated on the entry form will be required to produce for the

scrutineers:

(e) Evidence of insurance cover in accordance with the requirements of paragraph 3.3 of these rules

 

RULE 3.3

The evidence of insurance cover as required by Rule 3.2 (e) shall take the following form:

An endorsement note from the aircraft's insurance company which states that its Third

Party and Passenger Liability insurance (in respect of that aircraft):

1.     Has been extended to include the Arthur Butler Trophy Event, and

2.     Has been endorsed to include as the insured the organisers, Arthur Butler Aviation Museum Inc., for their respective rights, interests, and liabilities under that policy, and

3.     The sum assured shall be a be a minimum sum of $5,000,000 for Third Party and

$5,000,000 for Passenger Liability.

4.     The policy must insure the entrant, crew, passengers and those persons representatives and employers against liability arising out of the participation in this event in respect of such persons and the aircraft.

All entrants should contact their own broker or underwriter with whom the aircraft is normally insured to ensure that the requirements of these rules are complied with prior to the commencement of the event.

 

If some part of it causes a problem, which part and why.

 

Thanks

That sounds problematic. I can't imagine an insurance company signing up to insure people they have never heard of for God know what. Probs best if you organise your own insurance and pass the cost on to the entrants. Disclaimer: I have no experience of this. 

[old man emu]

14 hours ago, APenNameAndThatA said:

That sounds problematic.

Plagiarise! Plagiarise! Don't let anything evade your eyes.

 

If anyone was a competitor in the 2022 Serpentine Air Race involving Tiger Moths, they will recognise those rules. So the goal must be achievable. The question is if the requirement would stop anyone from being able to participate. 

[onetrack]

OME, you need to talk to an insurance broker, who is best positioned to advise on the path to take, and which company would be likely to take on the insurance risk.

Insurance companies specialise in selected risk fields and there's no point in trying to source an insurance quote for a specific risk from a company that doesn't operate in that field.

[pmccarthy]

Mike Dalton is a member of our club and specialises in aviation risks. [email protected] +61 419369678
 

[facthunter]

SOME will be deterred by having to Insure, no doubt. but is that a particular problem for YOU? The previous practice is a proven. Consult with them. You don't want to expose yourself to any litigation. That's your main concern.  3rd party cover is the most important. It's compulsory with road vehicle rego. Nev

[old man emu]

Not being an insurance guru, the way I read that rule was, "If you want to play in my sandbox, you have to bring band-aids for everyone." In other words, if you hurt someone, playing in a game I organised, don't drag me into your litigation.

 

I'd hate to have to say, "Well it was a good idea, and there was a lot of interest, but the cost of insurance killed it."

 

I'd also like to hear from anyone who participated in that Serpentine Tiger Race to find out what that rule actually meant.

[facthunter]

Contact the Place near Rutherford Luskintire? where the Tigers are rebuilt. Insurance stops many things but it has been done Before. Nev

Edited September 26, 2022 by facthunter

[old man emu]

Been to Luskintyre to see the Comper Swifts and saw the work one mob was doing. Mind boggling. I've emailed the mob who created the Serpentine rules. Just waiting on a reply

[facthunter]

Good luck. Nev

[old man emu]

I don't want this insurance business to cause the show to be cancelled. Too many people have said they'd love to participate.

[Thruster88]

2 minutes ago, old man emu said:

I don't want this insurance business to cause the show to be cancelled. Too many people have said they'd love to participate.

The organisers of the event should not need insurance if it is spelled out to all the participating  PILOTS IN COMMAND, that they must operate their aircraft in accordance with casa regulations while participating.  

[old man emu]

On 25/09/2022 at 1:29 PM, pmccarthy said:

Mike Dalton is a member of our club and specialises in aviation risks. [email protected] +61 419369678
 

Emailed him last night.

[old man emu]

I need advice on a couple of things.

 

Attached are route details. The map is my assessment map, so it's not an accurate WAC and has some alternate routes drawn on it. Based on the distances involved, would your aircraft have the endurance to do it non-stop. I hope to be able to arrange avgas at Coonamble, Walgett and Coonabarabran. Would you be prepared to use avgas for this event if you could not get mogas? If I can get sponsorship from fuel suppliers, I hope to get mogas at Tooraweenah.

 

The other thing is the entry fee. The Museum is not organising this to make big bucks for itself, although a bit of extra dosh would be appreciated. However, there's lots of costs involved, like that beastly Bunyip called Insurance and printing. We intend to have a perpetual trophy and a miniature for winners. Competitors will be paying out a lot just to compete, so we don't want to be picking already threadbare pockets. We are proposing an entry fee of fifty dollars ($50.00)

 

Please come back with your inputs.

 

OME

 

 

Indicative Times.docx

[onetrack]

$50 is only loose pocket change to the vast majority of aircraft owners. Think of the cost of attending any event today, you pay $100-$200 just for a half-decent seat. I think you need to re-adjust your figure upwards.

[old man emu]

12 minutes ago, onetrack said:

I think you need to re-adjust your figure upwards.

Thanks for your comment. I can see that insurance and hiring amenities are going to be our big expenses that I will have to consider. Plus printing and prizes.

 

What would you be prepared to pay as an entry fee, bearing in mind that we don't want to scare people away. If we had our d'ruthers, it would be free.

[Thruster88]

We recently flew to a farm tour and lunch day attended by some aircraft from Sydney, cost was $60 per person,  everyone thought it quite reasonable.  

[old man emu]

How much per aircraft would that have been?